PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11

[J. J. in Phila]

I didn't suggest he was from Ohio. He was arrested in NY in 85 and again in Fort Matilda and sentenced in C.C. in 99.

You didn't. Beck's source did.

I couldn't find any apparent ties to Bucks or Lancaster.

 

[SuperSmith]

You didn't. Beck's source did.

I couldn't find any apparent ties to Bucks or Lancaster.

Its "Bock" Greg Bock not "Beck"

I just reread his story twice and I see no hint of anyone (Bock's source or Bock himself) eluding to the HA member being from Ohio. Can you point out the paragraph it says that? I believe accuracy is important especially if you are attempting to shoot down someones opinion or theory.

For you convenience I have included Greg Bock's story.

Thank you in advance J.J. It's very possible I missed it.


http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/c...Police-probe-claim-Gricar-killed.html?nav=742

 

[SuperSmith]

Some of even Beck's story doesn't check out.

What parts of "Bock's" story doesn't check out?

 

[SuperSmith]

The son was in his mid teens in 2005; the son also has a nonviolent record.

A. K. would have been in his mid 50's in 2005, which is also a bit late (except for murder/suicide).

The son would've been 18-19 yrs of age in 2005.

Remember that the article said

"But he said the former Hells Angel allegedly responsible for ordering the killing of Gricar, 59, was an FBI informant who appeared in Centre County Court in the late 1990s."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I read it in one of the stories; I thought it was the Mirror articles. The informer though A. K. was dead, and found out he was alive and in Ohio.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The son would've been 18-19 yrs of age in 2005.

Remember that the article said

"But he said the former Hells Angel allegedly responsible for ordering the killing of Gricar, 59, was an FBI informant who appeared in Centre County Court in the late 1990s."

The key word is "former." A former Hells Angel, especially one that was a known informant, won't be ordering anyone.

 

[SuperSmith]

I read it in one of the stories; I thought it was the Mirror articles. The informer though A. K. was dead, and found out he was alive and in Ohio.

No problem mistakes happen sometimes. :blushing:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I thought I read it there, but the Mirror said, "in another state."

They did the sentence wrong as well.

 

[SuperSmith]

The key word is "former." A former Hells Angel, especially one that was a known informant, won't be ordering anyone.

J.J. can you please go back and read Bock's story again. lease:

At no point did Bock or the source say that RG was killed by "a" HA member. He was a "former" member as you indicated but in no way does that mean this former HA member ordered "other" HA members to kill Gricar.

It just says the former HA member "ordered" the hit. That could mean he hired someone for the hit, or a an old pal, or drug dealer, or even a family member.

 

[SuperSmith]

I thought I read it there, but the Mirror said, "in another state."

They did the sentence wrong as well.

He is living in another state currently (Maine) and I think you linked an article to his arrest again.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J. can you please go back and read Bock's story again. lease:

At no point did Bock or the source say that RG was killed by "a" HA member. He was a "former" member as you indicated but in no way does that mean this former HA member ordered "other" HA members to kill Gricar.

It just says the former HA member "ordered" the hit. That could mean he hired someone for the hit, or a an old pal, or drug dealer, or even a family member.

Yes, I read it, and an ex-Hells Angel is not going to be in a position to order a hit. He might attempt to hire a hit man, if he has the money, but most are not going after anyone in LE. It is one thing to kill a rival criminal; it is another to kill someone in LE.

Further, even in revenge killings against public officials (and there are a few), the body isn't hidden. The only missing public official who might have been murdered, that I could find, was Judge Joseph Force Crater, who disappeared in August of 1930.

There is no suggestion that A.K. had a grudge against RFG specifically. The supposed reason, a harsher sentence, was false. So was the claim that RFG was the prosecutor.

A lot of the information that has come out has proven false, whether from the original story in the Mirror or BB's version.

 

[Saunterer]

Knowing now (thanks to SS) the AK's name that Bock's informant gave to him, certain details of which have been confirmed by Buehner via a completely independent source, certainly gives us sleuthers something new to chew on.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Nothing really earth shattering in that. At least some details are demonstrably false (and both Bock and BB should have checked first).

The questions, the ones don't have answers, seem to be the ones related to finances.

I'll restate this point. If RFG had moved assets off shore prior to 2003, that would not necessarily mean he was planning to leave voluntarily.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Good people check, and I'm happy that on this one, I wasn't the first one here who caught some of these problems. The BPD and FBI seems to have hit it as well. Now, I''m wondering if Beck's informant was telling them the same details that he told BB's penpal?

There were some logical problems with this one from the start. Then there became factual problems as well.


The next step is to follow the money. It might not lead anyplace, but we won't know until we look. Trackergd is looking.

 

[Saunterer]

We now know the names of Bock's informant's alleged killer and Buehner's alleged corroborating pen pal. Are they real? Yes. Will they lead to an answer in the case of the disappearng district attorney? Too soon to tell.

 

[Saunterer]

There are no factual discrepancies in either Bock's or Buehner's recent revelations, other than a body not being found. I think this an exciting time. Can you hear me now Weaver? <modsnip> Weaver here, even though he has said that there is only a one percent chance that all this HAMC is related, contrary to his subordinate staff.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We knew that Bock's source was real. That isn't the issue. We don't know the name of the pen pal, <modsnip>.

We don't know if Bock's source is reporting accurately or if A. K. is lying to Bock's source. I suspect Bock's source is leading a few people down the garden path, and into a compost heap of absurdities. Bock had to correct details from the first story in the second story, ones that included motive and who did what. The BPD and FBI seem to have gotten it right. Bock and BB didn't.

Now, perhaps the could be the money. Even, as has been suggested, if RFG did some estate planning, when he did it will be key.

One think I am now wondering about is when LG was added to the checking account.

It is time to start asking solid questions about RFG's finances.

 

[SeekingJana]

I think that having an accounting of financials would add to the knowledge base of this case.
Hoping the documents that Trackergd has will shed some possible light on things we might not have known previously.

 

[SuperSmith]

Good people check, and I'm happy that on this one, I wasn't the first one here who caught some of these problems. The BPD and FBI seems to have hit it as well. Now, I''m wondering if Beck's informant was telling them the same details that he told BB's penpal?

There were some logical problems with this one from the start. Then there became factual problems as well.


The next step is to follow the money. It might not lead anyplace, but we won't know until we look. Trackergd is looking.

Not sure how many times I need to repeat this but once again the FBI has not responded about this story and Rickard indicated its "ongoing". So no it cannot be said with accuracy that they ran into the same problems as you.

This is not my opinion it is what has been reported. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion and interpretation of a theory <modsnip>

 

[SuperSmith]

We knew that Bock's source was real. That isn't the issue. We don't know the name of the pen pal, <modsnip>.

<modsnip>. The identity of the pen pal is known.