PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11

[SuperSmith]

Ok, JJ has expressed the opinion that RG's finances were too low and Jana has followed his lead. So let me ask this to entertain your theory. How much do you think he could've hidden over the time period you suggested? Ball park figure will do. I know Lara got his last year of salary and his pension so minus that. Curious to see your opinions.

 

[SeekingJana]

I am not an accountant. I do not have access to the required documentation regarding financials.
Therefore, I decline to participate in a guessing game involving a missing man whom I admire greatly and hope very much is alive and well.

Thank you, though.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

How much money did RFG have after his 2001 divorce? That is unknown, but it could be in the six digit range; they were double income. How much did he have going into the marriage? I'd doubt if it was 6 digits, but five is possible.

Was there any money moved prior to his divorce?

These are unknowns, but it could be substantial.

 

[Simply Caustic]

Ok, JJ has expressed the opinion that RG's finances were too low and Jana has followed his lead. So let me ask this to entertain your theory. How much do you think he could've hidden over the time period you suggested? Ball park figure will do. I know Lara got his last year of salary and his pension so minus that. Curious to see your opinions.

I lack the fundamental familiarity with his financials that would be helpful to speculating as to how much money he could have squirrled away - but I think discussion as to RG's finances is a good avenue for exploration - interested to read what you all think, on the subject.

MOO, only.

 

[SuperSmith]

It is possible, maybe even likely, that RG had other accounts that we are not privy too. Even if that is the case in my opinion that would have nothing to do with his disappearance.

Although it's noble thinking to hope that he is alive and well in my opinion that is not the case at all. The family believes he is deceased, some friends & colleagues believe he is deceased, and he was declared dead.

So at the end of the day wishing for a forensic audit is in my opinion intrusive to Lara and an invasion of privacy. In my opinion it is no ones business how much RG had saved or spent for any particular time frame "unless" LE can testify that there is probable cause for fraud, tax evasion, pay offs, bribe money, or County money missing.

In my opinion this will never ever happen so in my opinion it is fruitless to wish upon a star and hope it happens.

Since it has been declined to speculate on how much RG could've tucked away then what other reason is there to talk about this particular topic?

Just my opinion only

:websleuther:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

One question that has been raised is, if RFG walked away, how was he able to afford living in a new life? Some unknown accounts answer that question. If they exist, that would certainly raise the odds that he walked away.

Now, the next question would be, were those accounts accessed by RFG after 4/15/05? If so, that answers the question what happened to Ray Gricar.

Hypothetically, RFG could have had hidden assets worth $250 K, let's say foreign accounts. There would be a number of reasons to do that, including higher interest rates. We could find that all that money was still there, plus interest, untouched. That would lower the odds on walkaway. We could also find that the account was accessed in 6/05. That would be a strong indication that RFG was alive weeks after he disappeared. That would greatly increase the odds on walkaway.

There are a number of potential variations on this.

 

[SuperSmith]

As it was said earlier Ray Gricar was a good man. He was an ethical one and he was a top notch prosecutor.

I do not believe he would walk away from his life, laying waste to a stellar 20yr career, without his pension, without his belongings. All the while destroying the hearts of his family, especially Lara and Patty.

<modsnip>

 

[J. J. in Phila]

His record as a DA was, overall, very good, but not perfect.

One of the problems with this case has been the misplaced concern over how RFG will look. If he was murdered, that shouldn't make any difference, because finding and punishing his murderer should override that. If he wasn't murdered, any foibles can be overlooked.

This was one of the problems very early in the case. Several witnesses reported that RFG was seen with a woman in the Street of Shops in Lewisburg on 4/15/05. Because nobody wanted to publicly give the impression that RFG could have been with a woman, that information was hidden from the public for more than six months, and released in Cleveland.

Look at what could have happened had it been released earlier:

1. The woman talked to RFG, but it was just a random encounter. She could be a key witness, and maybe he said, "Oh, I have a dinner meeting later," or "Oh, I didn't realize it was so late; I better call my girlfriend. We normally go out on Friday," or "My life is winding down; there isn't anything left to do."

2. The witnesses misidentified the man as RFG. The woman might have been able to say, "Oh, that was Harry, my husband of 20 years."

3. The woman was involved in RFG's disappearance. She was a helper or a suspect, or knew where RFG was going after that.

Out of a claim protecting a reputation or legacy, that opportunity was lost.

 

[SuperSmith]

To the contrary I have seen Ray Gricar's name slammed through the media for years now. Stuff like "he was paid off", "he was a womanizer", "he was introverted", "he left Sandusky off the hook", "he was like a bowl of oatmeal", he left with another woman and started a new life etc. etc.

I have seen no legacy protection by LE and with regards to the late release of the "mystery woman" I believe that was more so done to protect Patti and because it the claim couldn't be confirmed.

There was no physical evidence that Ray Gricar was in the SOS that weekend. The bloodhounds confirmed that when they lost his scent in the parking lot.

Even the family and Patti haven't protected his "legacy" as they have not settled on one particular theory. If they were protecting his reputation then they all would've said from day one "foul play!" as that is the least reputation damaging theory.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

To the contrary I have seen Ray Gricar's name slammed through the media for years now. Stuff like "he was paid off", "he was a womanizer", "he was introverted", "he left Sandusky off the hook", "he was like a bowl of oatmeal", he left with another woman and started a new life etc. etc.

I would not consider "introverted" to be a slam. I would use the terms "reserved," "aloof," or "remote," and I think that there is ample evidence of that. He didn't prosecute Sandusky for crimes for which another prosecutor did, though I'm not quite ready to say "off the hook."

For many of those others, there is a counter voice, which in some cases was tackling those issues even before Sandusky came out.

I have seen no legacy protection by LE and with regards to the late release of the "mystery woman" I believe that was more so done to protect Patti and because it the claim couldn't be confirmed.

DZ actually said that they didn't want people to think RFG had run off with a woman on Disappeared when the issue came up, IIRC, or in an interview.

There was no physical evidence that Ray Gricar was in the SOS that weekend. The bloodhounds confirmed that when they lost his scent in the parking lot.

There are multiple witnesses and see my second point in regard to possible confusion. Stating that they had a report might have led the "Mystery Woman" to talk to LE. "Mystery Woman" might not realize that she is a mystery.

Even the family and Patti haven't protected his "legacy" as they have not settled on one particular theory. If they were protecting his reputation then they all would've said from day one "foul play!" as that is the least reputation damaging theory.

That might be because the evidence is not there for foul play, possibly because it wasn't foul play. I wouldn't rule foul play out, by a long shot, but there isn't solid evidence of it either.

Basically, with a few people, the concern over showing respect and of concerns over legacy are more important to some than the answer to the question, "What happened to Ray Gricar?" That ultimately hurts the case. Is the proper legacy of Ray Gricar protecting his reputation, making him look like "Superman," or finding out what happened to him? I would argue the latter.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I looked at the thread on Mel Wiley; yes, we have one. It was going on for years and only has about two pages.

Wiley is believed to have left voluntarily. There are not negative comments about him. People are not saying what a terrible person was for leaving: OH OH - Mel L. Wiley: Police Chief, 47, Hinckley Township, 28 July 1985 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I have not seen any hostile press either.

 

[SuperSmith]

I see no reputation protection. I truly believe that DZ not releasing the "mystery woman" information was either a mistake (which he made many), a protection of sorts to Patti, and the fact that DZ could never get a confirmation of the sighting being that RG was most likely not in the SOS that day. No pictures, cameras, no scent evidence.

Although Ray was most likely respected for the job he did for Centre County I doubt he was "friends" with any law enforcement that would have facilitated a "legacy protection" scheme.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

According to DZ, it was for the family, but that who the "legacy" concept would apply to. If RFG is dead, what difference would it make to him.

I am generally not critical of the BPD, but the failure to release the information on the "Mystery Woman," very early on, within the first week, was a mistake. It is not a of if it was confirmed, but a question of confirming it or ruling it out. In the latter case, the "Mystery Woman" might not have even realized that the police were looking for her.

It could have couched in such a way that people would not have concluded that RFG had run off with a woman. Simply saying that they had checked all of RFG's social contacts and no one was missing could have helped with that.

Had that been released, it might have made a difference.

 

[SuperSmith]

According to DZ, it was for the family, but that who the "legacy" concept would apply to. If RFG is dead, what difference would it make to him.

I am generally not critical of the BPD, but the failure to release the information on the "Mystery Woman," very early on, within the first week, was a mistake. It is not a of if it was confirmed, but a question of confirming it or ruling it out. In the latter case, the "Mystery Woman" might not have even realized that the police were looking for her.

It could have couched in such a way that people would not have concluded that RFG had run off with a woman. Simply saying that they had checked all of RFG's social contacts and no one was missing could have helped with that.

Had that been released, it might have made a difference.

We don't agree on the legacy thing. I would say that it was to spare the families feelings. However I do recall, I will have to dig back through to find, DZ mentioning Patti being the reason.

I agree with you that it should've been released very early on among other things in the case.

 

[SuperSmith]

"That may, in part, have been out of concern for Gricar's family and loved ones, Zaccagni said, and concerns that they would be hurt if the revelation raised questions about whether Gricar was having an affair."

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t2226.htm

 

[beach]

Hang on.... closing briefly. If you guys can't restrain yourselves from the personalized posts, I'll help you out here.

 

[beach]

Admin Note:

The personalized posts, the baiting oke: and refusal to put posters who irritate you on "Ignore" has caused this thread to be temporarily closed.

This thread has become all about individual posters and their specific agendas.

How utterly disrespectful to Mr. Gricar.

Zero tolerance for anymore of it.


This thread will remain closed for at least one hour. Maybe longer. While it is closed I suggest that you all think about WHY you are genuinely here. If you want to continue to post for sincere reasons, then you need to come up with a more tolerant way of expressing yourselves toward your fellow members.

After this, no more warnings. Expect lengthy time-outs and loss of posting privileges for any further violations.

 

[SuperSmith]

"Zaccagni said that as time goes on, homicide becomes a more viable explanation for Ray Gricar's disappearance, especially because of how and where the laptop was found.

Fishermen found the laptop -- missing its hard drive -- directly under the state Route 45 bridge, according to police. There's only one side of the bridge that has a pedestrian walkway, Zaccagni said, and it's unlikely the computer could have been thrown from there and landed where it was found.

A vehicle driving on the non-pedestrian side would have had to slow or stop for the computer to be thrown into the water, Zaccagni said.

It would have been easier for a passenger to do that, he said."

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2005/09/04/3794/gricar-family-seeking-answers.html#storylink=cpy

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The most recent one was from 2012:

“The biggest thing about that is, why did he search for that on the home computer?” Rickard said. “He knew we were going to find that. He knew.”

For Rickard, those searches all but eliminate a raft of scenarios.

“It’s like a circle,” Rickard said. “You go in one direction and then you throw in everything else and it leads you right back to the beginning.”

Rickard entertained some of the more prominent theories:

Could Gricar have been lured to the Susquehanna River by a mistress, killed by the woman’s husband?

Could Gricar have been kidnapped by a criminal or a local gang seeking revenge?

“Throw in hard-drive searches and it doesn’t kill the theories, but it makes them virtually impossible,” he said.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/04/ray_gricar_mystery.html

I actually don't necessarily agree. RFG wanted to get rid of the data on the drive, and there is not a large river in Bellefonte. He might have been going to Lewisburg anyhow and decided, since he'd be in the area anyhow, this would be a good time to toss it. It might be unrelated.

 

[SuperSmith]

The computer searches are indeed curious. RG did in fact want to erase his hard drive, bought software to do it, even inquired about it.

That said it is not befitting of the known character for him to destroy a piece of County equipment for his own personal reasons opposed to either just using the software purchased or even just buying a replacement drive.

What would compel him to break character? To take laptop w/o the case and destroy the whole unit?

Could Patty have done the searches for him? How does LE know RG did the searches? Is it assumption?

What could have been on the laptop that was so imperative to destroy?

All questions that need answered