PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11

[J. J. in Phila]

Re: why an unmarried DA near retirement might leave.

I re-watched the "Disappeared" segment on Ray recently.
2 of his friends, one from the DA's office and another who was an attorney, said to the effect that it would be just like Ray to leave in such a way as to confound the police, to outsmart LE. I thought they were joking at first, because permanently leaving your daughter's life and all your retirement you've worked for is a very drastic measure.
However, the 2 men were serious. They apparently know a side of his personality that we don't have insight into.. or they each don't want to believe he could be dead.
I confess that I suffer a great load of the latter, but realistically KNOW he may well be long- dead and the body has not been found yet.

In all fairness, I do consider options when looking at theories concerning foul play.

I wanted to follow up on this point a bit; I don't know if I mentioned it earlier on this thread.

While RFG was growing up, there was a cultural influence on the idea of taking off and drifting without roots. Two television shows in particular, Route 66 and The Fugitive. Both dealt with the idea of taking off, though not necessarily incommunicado, though the latter did.

Both had ties to Cleveland, the first having several episodes set there (and involving the Slavic community). The second was widely associated with the Dr. Sam Shepard murder case, perhaps the most sensational case out of Cleveland prior to the missing girls.

While there other cultural influences at the time, these were both popular series, from 1960-67, from a time when RFG was 14 until he graduated from college.

For someone coming of age in that period, these can be very strong cultural influences that cast leaving as something romantic.

 

[SeekingJana]

I.D. has changed Ray's " Disappeared" segment again. I think this is now version 3.
Changes do not add to the understanding of the case but play to popular media.. Sandusky video clips added.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I.D. has changed Ray's " Disappeared" segment again. I think this is now version 3.
Changes do not add to the understanding of the case but play to popular media.. Sandusky video clips added.

That was added in November or December of 2011, just after the scandal broke. I was not happy how they edited in one of TG's comments. They made it look like it was directly referring to the Sandusky investigation, even though he'd made it a year before. I would have to look for it, but I remember commenting on it at the time.

I don't know what version 2 was, however. The was the first version and then the version with clips regarding the Sandusky Scandal. There could be a third version, out there that I am not familiar with, however.

 

[SeekingJana]

Sloane's comments are whittled down to pretty much nothing. I really think this is the 3rd version, 2nd edit.

Not happy with what they have on Netflix.. but " superfluous and heaviy edited" coverage is better than no coverage.

 

[SuperSmith]

If Ray Gricar walked away from his life never to be heard from or seen again he has done a brilliant job eluding LE, good citizens, PI's, websleuthes, and family.

I do not think walk away fits however.

Someone as intelligent as Ray wouldn't have taken the chances or made such critical mistakes.

Mistake 1. Leaving before his retirement while still an active DA. I say this because his disappearance created such a media frenzy at the time. (Dateline, Disappeared, national broadcasts, and newspapers). His story is still being reported on and has only gained momentum over the years. He starting to be compared to Hoffa, DB Cooper, etc. Point being if his intention was to walk away he certainly wouldn't want this much attention. There is no way he would have received the same kind of media attention if he disappeared post retirement.

2. The laptop/hard drive. Throwing it in the vacinity of the Mini & reported sightings. In many views this can be construed as walk away evidence. To make a clean get away it would have been better to smash up the laptop and discard it in a dumpster at a far away Walmart.

3. Not contacting a loved one at least by letter that he is ok, well, and doesn't want to be found. This would stop any LE effort and posters like us.

4. Not touching his money. If took some of his money with him then there wouldn't be a question of what scenario to believe.

These are just some if why I have come to believe that walk away is at 10% at best. It's simply not logical to disappear when he did. He could've done a more effective disappearing act post retirement without the media attention, with his money, with a stellar career in tack. He could've retired then to a foreign country, or some secluded island, changed his name and even appearance.

The only way I buy into the walk away theory is if his family was threatened. That would explain leaving everything behind.

Other than that I believe foul play 90% all the way. It's a tragedy and I hope his killer(s) can be found and brought to justice and his family gets closure. That's why I spend time on this case.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped.

Mistake 1. Leaving before his retirement while still an active DA. I say this because his disappearance created such a media frenzy at the time. (Dateline, Disappeared, national broadcasts, and newspapers). His story is still being reported on and has only gained momentum over the years. He starting to be compared to Hoffa, DB Cooper, etc. Point being if his intention was to walk away he certainly wouldn't want this much attention. There is no way he would have received the same kind of media attention if he disappeared post retirement.

There was a monetary factor, from what I understand. Had RFG disappeared after retiring, his daughter would have gotten substantially less. Note that this could also be a motive for suicide.

As for press, what generated more interest in the story was the Sandusky scandal. He had no way of knowing if or when that would ever come out.

. The laptop/hard drive. Throwing it in the vacinity of the Mini & reported sightings. In many views this can be construed as walk away evidence. To make a clean get away it would have been better to smash up the laptop and discard it in a dumpster at a far away Walmart.

First, I would not construe it as evidence of walkaway. It is very difficult to physically destroy a hard drive. I have attempted that, and after noisy pounding, I would expect the data to be recoverable.

3. Not contacting a loved one at least by letter that he is ok, well, and doesn't want to be found. This would stop any LE effort and posters like us.

It would also prevent them from closing the estate, so there is a financial motive (see first point). I do not subscribe to the theory that his daughter knows, or that she would perjure herself if she did.

4. Not touching his money. If took some of his money with him then there wouldn't be a question of what scenario to believe.

In regard to known accounts, see first point. We have been asking questions about his finances regarding unknown assets. Further, that would be traceable. Taking money with him would be problematic, since it is illegal to have more than $10 K in cash; if he should get it from a bank or financial institution, that has to be reported.

 

[SeekingJana]

If Ray Gricar walked away from his life never to be heard from or seen again he has done a brilliant job eluding LE, good citizens, PI's, websleuthes, and family.

I do not think walk away fits however.

Someone as intelligent as Ray wouldn't have taken the chances or made such critical mistakes.

Mistake 1. Leaving before his retirement while still an active DA. I say this because his disappearance created such a media frenzy at the time. (Dateline, Disappeared, national broadcasts, and newspapers). His story is still being reported on and has only gained momentum over the years. He starting to be compared to Hoffa, DB Cooper, etc. Point being if his intention was to walk away he certainly wouldn't want this much attention. There is no way he would have received the same kind of media attention if he disappeared post retirement.

2. The laptop/hard drive. Throwing it in the vacinity of the Mini & reported sightings. In many views this can be construed as walk away evidence. To make a clean get away it would have been better to smash up the laptop and discard it in a dumpster at a far away Walmart.

3. Not contacting a loved one at least by letter that he is ok, well, and doesn't want to be found. This would stop any LE effort and posters like us.

4. Not touching his money. If took some of his money with him then there wouldn't be a question of what scenario to believe.

These are just some if why I have come to believe that walk away is at 10% at best. It's simply not logical to disappear when he did. He could've done a more effective disappearing act post retirement without the media attention, with his money, with a stellar career in tack. He could've retired then to a foreign country, or some secluded island, changed his name and even appearance.

The only way I buy into the walk away theory is if his family was threatened. That would explain leaving everything behind.

Other than that I believe foul play 90% all the way. It's a tragedy and I hope his killer(s) can be found and brought to justice and his family gets closure. That's why I spend time on this case.

Thank you for stating your thoughts and theory so well. It helps me, as your fellow poster, get to know you better.
I realize that we each have our own viewpoint and theory and mine does change... When the Sandusky scandal and Victim 6 were in the GJ presentment, I was totally convinced Mr. Gricar was dead. I had no hope at all of any closure in his death, and I certainly didn't think he was alive.

But, then I started to realize that Sandusky apparently didn't have anyone else killed off, so why just Ray Gricar? I backed up and off the Sandusky link in a hurry and have felt a lot more peaceful since I did.

As for whether or not he is alive, all I can say personally is that we just don't know. IF I was missing, like the 3 women in Cleveland were missing for a decade, and NO ONE kept the faith and kept looking for me if I was unable to return home for a long period of time, it would be sad.
So, I keep hoping and looking and seeking new angles we might have missed or which might lead to an alive Ray.

IF you told me about his life ( habits, personality) and that he was missing for the first time today, I'd probably say " Poor man is dead and they need to find his body and prosecute the killer or killers". I feel that way a lot of the time anyway.

Then I think- but people have returned. Just like the " Disappeared" segment posted about here earlier tonight about the dude called " Scoop". He was gone from 2005 until 2011 of his own free will and the FBI was looking for him very hard because he stole millions of dollars from people. And possibly committed international financial fraud with corporate clients in Brazil too. The FBI looked for him very hard because of the criminal charges against him and they didn't find him in MEXICO.
Everyone in Breckenridge, CO seemed to love and trust " Scoop" and they absolutely thought he was long dead and gone. Now, they're mostly just mad at him while he is in prison for what I imagine will be a long time.

No one knows in the case of a missing person unless there is sufficient biological material to form an opinion that a person met their death in that spot and was then moved, or in the presence of remains.

If a person does decide to walk away, and doesn't fake a crimescene, then they have not broken any laws. Also, if they do just leave and NOT stage their leave- taking to look like foul play or a kidnapping, then they have not attempted to commit fraud or deception.
I believe Mr. Gricar has great integrity. I don't know what happened to him, of course.

Thanks for your post. It means a lot.

 

[SeekingJana]

I asked my spouse about a year ago how he would destroy a hard drive IF he never wanted to use that computer again. He said: Take it out and leave it in water.

He didn't know why I was asking. I asked him how he has erased the HDs of so many of our older laptops that usually get donated to friends in need. He said with a software program that erases it and then he overwrites everything with his own binary code and destroys the partitions in the HD just to make certain. Then he reloads the original OS or an updated OS and makes sure it is clean.

I may not know a lot about his career because of the security involved, but I understood exactly what he would do to a computer he didn't want any longer, and also how to erase and reformat a HD for future use. I also trust that he is thorough and gives people laptops they can use.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped, to explore two points.

But, then I started to realize that Sandusky apparently didn't have anyone else killed off, so why just Ray Gricar? I backed up and off the Sandusky link in a hurry and have felt a lot more peaceful since I did.

Why wait nearly seven years to do so? The time factor is an element. If RFG changed his mind about prosecuting, why? Why isn't there a record of him looking at the case anew? If he was going to Lewisburg for something related to the case, why aren't there notes and why didn't he tell someone? Why wasn't JKA involved; it was her specialty?

If a person does decide to walk away, and doesn't fake a crimescene, then they have not broken any laws. Also, if they do just leave and NOT stage their leave- taking to look like foul play or a kidnapping, then they have not attempted to commit fraud or deception.
I believe Mr. Gricar has great integrity. I don't know what happened to him, of course.

This is a key element. There is no evidence of any violence any place. It is not illegal to leave voluntarily, with no debt and no one he was legally bound to. He certainly provided for his loved ones, directly or indirectly.

 

[SeekingJana]

Respectfully snipped, to explore two points.
Why wait nearly seven years to do so? The time factor is an element. If RFG changed his mind about prosecuting, why? Why isn't there a record of him looking at the case anew? If he was going to Lewisburg for something related to the case, why aren't there notes and why didn't he tell someone? Why wasn't JKA involved; it was her specialty?
quote]

I am replying to one point in a 2 point post. Sorry I didn't make that clear before now.

The time frame was a huge factor in changing my opinion. Then I realized that I was reacting to other people's reactions.. A pedophile and a murderer are two different types of criminals and I knew this very well. I got caught up in the " theory of the month" and I learned from the experience.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The only thing that I could figure out as to why 1998 would trigger a murder would be if something changed.

Even if RFG was worried about losing the next election, if he prosecuted "the Great Sandusky," he wasn't planning to run after 2001. Once he got past the 2001 primary, which was fairly close, he wouldn't be facing another contested election. He had almost four years to charge Sandusky without having to worry about facing the voters. He had more than a year to file charges after announcing he wouldn't run, yet there has not been any suggestion he was trying to bring charges.

Further, in 1998, Sandusky was seen as Paterno's heir apparent. RFG would have incurred the wrath of some PSU football fans. In 2001-05, Sandusky was an ex-coach who was not going coach PSU Football. His popularity was still high, but it had declined; he was "the Not-so-Great Sandusky" at that point.

 

[Trackergd]

I had a "difficult" weekend, so I regret coming in this morning without a full list of what was in the file.

Hope this is OK with the Mods as it is public record.

The first page is a Notice of Inheritance Tax

Dated 3-4-2013
Filed by H. Amos Goodall Jr.

Appraised Value of Return Based On:
$1,057.86 Jointly Owned Property (Schedule F)
$1,057.86 Total Assetts

Approved Deductions and Exemptions:
$15,693.33 Funeral Expenses/Adm. Costs/Misc. Expenses (Schedule H)
$15,693.33 Total Deductions
-$14,635.47 Net Value of Tax Return
-$14,635.47 Net Value of Estate Subject to Tax

No Inheritance Taxes were charged.

It looks like all the documents in the file were filed by H. Amos Goodall Jr. for Lara A. Gricar.

 

[Trackergd]

Next is a Final Decree in the Court of Common Pleas, Centre County PA Orphans Court Divison.

Filed July 26, 2011

In The Matter Of: Ray F. Gricar

25th day of July, 2011
Motion of H. Amos Goodall, attorney for the Petitioner Lara Gricar
Declared a decendent as of the 30th day of June, 2011.

Signed by David E. Grine, President Judge.

 

[Trackergd]

There are duplicate copies of some documents and at least one that was never completed.

The PETITION TO ESTABLISH A FINDING OF DEATH OF RAY F. GRICAR PURSUANT TO 20 PA.C.S.A. is an 11 page document with a rather nice timeline and step by step listing of what was known about the case. Filed June 30, 2011

 

[Trackergd]

I wonder why the Notice of Inheritance Tax was filed in March of this year? Most of the other documents were filed in 2011.

There are copies of newspaper articles dated from 2005

There are documents related to the reward fund, and the cancellation of same.

Document dated September 2, 2005 listing Lara A. Gricar as appointed trustee for Ray F. Gricar with authorization to take charge of the property of Ray F. Gricar with authority to execute all documents without limitation etc.....

 

[MissJ]

One thing is that, if he were collecting a pension, his mailing address may have been required to have been disclosed. For at least some state pensions, that is public information, unless there is a court order preventing its disclosure.

If safety was part of his concern, that part would make sense. Jana's point is valid as well, which I'd like to explore separately.

I can't respond for all states but I get a state pension from another state. My address is not public record.:twocents:

 

[SuperSmith]

The only thing that I could figure out as to why 1998 would trigger a murder would be if something changed.

Even if RFG was worried about losing the next election, if he prosecuted "the Great Sandusky," he wasn't planning to run after 2001. Once he got past the 2001 primary, which was fairly close, he wouldn't be facing another contested election. He had almost four years to charge Sandusky without having to worry about facing the voters. He had more than a year to file charges after announcing he wouldn't run, yet there has not been any suggestion he was trying to bring charges.

Further, in 1998, Sandusky was seen as Paterno's heir apparent. RFG would have incurred the wrath of some PSU football fans. In 2001-05, Sandusky was an ex-coach who was not going coach PSU Football. His popularity was still high, but it had declined; he was "the Not-so-Great Sandusky" at that point.

Ray Frank Gricar would have charged Joe Paterno if it was warranted. Gricar did not leave Sandusky off the hook for any other reason than he didn't have enough evidence at the time.

The victim was a child and didn't want to get Sandusky in trouble and I've heard the mother wouldn't testify either. Neither would've made a good witness.

I have seen your posts regarding the 1998 incident and you believe RG had a "colossal collapse in judgement" I think it is an unfair assessment given we are not privy to all the facts.

Yes Victim 6 was part of the 2011 GJ but he was willing to testify as an adult and was a mere part of a large group. A corroborating pattern was shown with the help of the other victims.

The 98 incident is simply. Sandusky didn't confess to anything except showering with the boy, no sexual contact, child & mother unwilling to testify, DPW closing their case, LE closing their case. Simply was not enough for a successful prosecution.

 

[SuperSmith]

RG was not into politics and certainly wouldn't effect his decision to prosecute someone or not.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I can't respond for all states but I get a state pension from another state. My address is not public record.:twocents:

I am in State Employees' Retirement System and received the letter dated 9/5/13. Home addresses are public information. There is a "'personal security' exception" but it generally requires a "judicial decree - such as a protection from abuse order or restraining order." I couldn't say, **I'm worried about someone finding me, so don't release it.**

I'm not sure it is the same system, but the ruling would likely apply.

The letter was generic and I'd be happy to scan a copy and send it out.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I had a "difficult" weekend, so I regret coming in this morning without a full list of what was in the file.

Hope this is OK with the Mods as it is public record.

The first page is a Notice of Inheritance Tax

Dated 3-4-2013
Filed by H. Amos Goodall Jr.

Appraised Value of Return Based On:
$1,057.86 Jointly Owned Property (Schedule F)
$1,057.86 Total Assetts

Approved Deductions and Exemptions:
$15,693.33 Funeral Expenses/Adm. Costs/Misc. Expenses (Schedule H)
$15,693.33 Total Deductions
-$14,635.47 Net Value of Tax Return
-$14,635.47 Net Value of Estate Subject to Tax

No Inheritance Taxes were charged.

It looks like all the documents in the file were filed by H. Amos Goodall Jr. for Lara A. Gricar.

That amount is exceptionally low, but it might might not count several things that were paid: The initial trusteeship for the estate and setting up the reward. Both involved using an attorney. LG's travel to file those could also be included, legitimately.

There was, according to DZ, around $100 K in 2005. It was was held jointly with LG, so half of it would have been her's, for estate purposes.

Good job though, Trackergd.