PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11

[Trackergd]

I guess one of the points I was making was that Kroll Ontrack did not find any usable data on the hard drive. According to my sources, Kroll is better than anyone else. As the data is magnetically stored, water should not have erased all the data. Kroll has recovered data from burned and chopped up hard drives. This one was intact.

This would suggest a magnet wipe or a data wipe before it went into the water. One method is more amateurish than the other. Both would suggest a basic knowledge of a hard drive.

An unsophisticated killer would simply chop it up, burn it or something to that effect, whilst someone with some computer skills would do a magnet or software wipe and then discard the computer well away from the crime scene.

The fact that RG had wipe software (according to a post above) would suggest he intended to wipe the hard drive. That changes things a bit as one could assume he intended to destroy data or move it to a safer location, but then why dump the computer and hard drive? To me that looks more like concern he was going to be compromised in some way or wanted to leave no trace of plans to disappear. Unless he and his partner were having a rough time or depression and he wanted out of his current life, I would suspect the imminent chance of compromise as an additional theory.

 

[Trackergd]

Just checked into the software to wipe a disk.

Standard packages overwrite the data sector by sector with "0's"

Mill Spec overwrite the data sector by sector with "010's" essentially a triple overwrite.

If there was no data at all on the drive, it was a magnet wipe.

My top IT guy (also skilled in forensic data recovery and part owned a large IT company) says this is a classic Paranoia scenario. He has seen it many times.

Just another monkey wrench tossed into the works......

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Trackergd's comment would apply to any killer, except one who knew something was exclusively on the laptop, i.e. RFG had not copied it, whatever "it" was. The problem is that no killer could have known that.

As to making it look like walkaway or suicide, it would make sense if the laptop was found off the side of the bridge where there was a walkway. People could think that RFG went onto the walkway, tossed the computer and then jumped. The laptop was found on the opposite side of the bridge, the one without a walkway and upstream from the walkway. That certainly doesn't "make it look like suicide." What makes it look like walkaway is RFG's prior interest in getting rid of the data on the laptop, not where it ended up.

So, I guess the theory is now that RFG had the laptop with him for some other reason (which is possible). The killer, after grabbing RFG, rummaged through the Mini, found the laptop, but ignored the cell phone. Then the killer took the drive out, tossed it from the park, and then drove across the bridge, turned around, and dropped the laptop in the river, on the side where it would be less likely to jump. All while RFG is being taken some place, killed, and his body being taken to a mine shaft, with 200 guns and four other dead bodies. That is the theory being offered.

I would question why would the killer take the laptop and then go to all this trouble. Trackergd notes, correctly, that if the killer could hide a body in a mineshaft, it would be far easier to take the laptop as well. Even that wouldn't answer the question of why a killer would want to destroy the laptop or why RFG would bring it with him.

 

[Trackergd]

Was any data related to the J.S. case stored on his work computer?

If so was it used in the conviction case and available to both parties by a disclosure motion from the defense?

Is there a possibility it was also on his laptop and there was perceived a risk of a subpoena for his laptop and data contained?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped.

My top IT guy (also skilled in forensic data recovery and part owned a large IT company) says this is a classic Paranoia scenario. He has seen it many times.

Just another monkey wrench tossed into the works......

RFG might not have been too paranoid. He was in LE and would have a basic understanding about forensic data recovery. He could have had legitimate concerns about the data being discovered.

Aside from routine personal things like account information and credit card numbers, he might have had personnel information on staff members. We know one had a prescription drug problem at the time. We know that a second resigned after "sexting" incident involving the girlfriend of a defendant a few years later. Maybe he had negative information on stafffers and he didn't want to run the risk of a criminal managing to get the information and blackmailing someone.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Was any data related to the J.S. case stored on his work computer?

If so was it used in the conviction case and available to both parties by a disclosure motion from the defense?

Is there a possibility it was also on his laptop and there was perceived a risk of a subpoena for his laptop and data contained?

There was no file on J. S. in the Centre County DA's Office. MTM did not think that was unusual.

RFG didn't get the laptop until 2003-04, so anything on it would have had to have copied from another source.

 

[SuperSmith]

There was no file on J. S in the Centre County DA's Office. MTM did not think that was unusual.

RFG didn't get the laptop until 2003-04, so anything on it would have had to have copied from another source.

The laptop was a 1998 Micron Trek II laptop. I would be most interested in any article you could provide to back this up vs. your opinion.

I cannot see Centre County purchasing 5-6 year old laptops for their staff.

 

[Cherry]

Has anyone checked to see if he has tried to change his name in any court of law in the US?

 

[Trackergd]

Has anyone checked to see if he has tried to change his name in any court of law in the US?

My guess is that he would have left the country. The chance of being seen by someone who knows him or had seen a picture of him is too great.

 

[SuperSmith]

I do not believe that what was contained on the his work laptop was of a personal nature. I believe he might have had notes on cases etc.

I do not believe he would've utilized his work laptop for any important personal information that he would later need to erase and throw in the river.

He was making plenty of money and could've bought his own laptop and taken it with him if the theory is walk away.

I believe he wanted to erase his work notes etc. Either way something big was stored on that laptop that was either destroyed by him or a killer(s)

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The laptop was a 1998 Micron Trek II laptop. I would be most interested in any article you could provide to back this up vs. your opinion.

I cannot see Centre County purchasing 5-6 year old laptops for their staff.

They were still being manufactured in 2003 and I cannot see Centre County wanting to run out and get the latest, most expensive, laptop when it goes on the market immediately.

I can see extremely few governments doing that.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I do not believe that what was contained on the his work laptop was of a personal nature. I believe he might have had notes on cases etc.

I do not believe he would've utilized his work laptop for any important personal information that he would later need to erase and throw in the river.

He was making plenty of money and could've bought his own laptop and taken it with him if the theory is walk away.

I believe he wanted to erase his work notes etc. Either way something big was stored on that laptop that was either destroyed by him or a killer(s)

The laptop was used as RFG's home computer, until he got one 4-5 months before. That would include personal use, and could include things shopping online. He could have been worried about his credit card number.

 

[Trackergd]

The laptop was used as RFG's home computer, until he got one 4-5 months before. That would include personal use, and could include things shopping online. He could have been worried about his credit card number.

With respect,

None of which could not have been wiped by a simple overwrite program and not required such drastic measures as the computer and drive were found in.

If he were walking away, why would he care about credit card information or online shopping history?

 

[SuperSmith]

They were still being manufactured in 2003 and I cannot see Centre County wanting to run out and get the latest, most expensive, laptop when it goes on the market immediately.

I can see extremely few governments doing that.

J.J., I'm not suggesting you are making this up but can you please post a link that indicates that the Micron Transport Trek 2 was manufactured from 1998-2003? I have never heard of a computer company manufacturing the same model laptop for 6 years straight.

Thank you in advance.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

With respect,

None of which could not have been wiped by a simple overwrite program and not required such drastic measures as the computer and drive were found in.

If he were walking away, why would he care about credit card information or online shopping history?

If RFG walked away. I'm suggesting that there might be another reason his interest, at least, in getting rid of the data.

We don't know that he did walk away. Obviously he could have destroyed the drive because it has his traveling plans on it, but there can be other reasons as well.

 

[SuperSmith]

:denied::bananalama:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J., I'm not suggesting you are making this up but can you please post a link that indicates that the Micron Transport Trek 2 was manufactured from 1998-2003? I have never heard of a computer company manufacturing the same model laptop for 6 years straight.

Thank you in advance.

Here is the roll out of the replacement model: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MPC+C...sPort+T2200+Notebook+Computer;...-a0111841987

IIRC, while the Trek 2 was introduced in the summer of 1998, they generally were not shipped until later. The online specs on them were dated January 1999.

There was an Apple laptop that was out for about 5 years (2001-06)

 

[SuperSmith]

I believe Ray Gricar was taken out for revenge.

As J.J. indicated any potential damaging information contained on the laptop would offer no guarantees that the same information would not exist else. (another computer, hard drive, disk, hard copy, or word of mouth)

The laptop was either a prop to steer the investigation or the killer(s) just ditched it in the river deeming it of no importance vs. the remains of a dead body.

Someone had it in for Ray Gricar in my humble opinion.

 

[SuperSmith]

Here is the roll out of the replacement model: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MPC+C...sPort+T2200+Notebook+Computer;...-a0111841987

IIRC, while the Trek 2 was introduced in the summer of 1998, they generally were not shipped until later. The online specs on them were dated January 1999.

There was an Apple laptop that was out for about 5 years (2001-06)

You are accurate about the "Trek 2". (1998/1999) however the link you provided is for the Micron Transport T2200 which is NOT the model that Ray Gricar had or at least what the Bellefonte police have in their possession and said to be Ray's. The T2200 didn't come out till 2004 per your link. This is not my opinion. Anyone with any sort of resourcefulness can find several photos of the laptop pulled from the river and it clearly is the Micro Transport Trek 2.

:toast:

 

[SuperSmith]

Here is the roll out of the replacement model: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MPC+C...sPort+T2200+Notebook+Computer;...-a0111841987

IIRC, while the Trek 2 was introduced in the summer of 1998, they generally were not shipped until later. The online specs on them were dated January 1999.

There was an Apple laptop that was out for about 5 years (2001-06)

So are you now saying that RG had two laptops?

What Apple laptop model do you speak of?