PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

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  • #421
First I would like to thank everyone for the posted links and the discussion that has brought up some interesting opinions and clarified some misconceptions on my part having been somewhat new to this case.

Now knowing the topography and the location of the SOS, bridges and the location of the laptop and drive, coupled with his phone call to PEF, I am about 65% walk away and 35% suicide.

After doing some on line searches, it appears to me that the Sandusky case with it's complexity is one of the few that has the potential to cause RG to have a clandestine meeting with one or more individuals in Lewisburg, and/or would give him the most cause for concern for whatever reason.

The proximity of the laptop, hard drive, SOS, the park and spot where the mini was found, along with RG driving back and forth as seen by witnesses runs up a large red flag that he was in Lewisburg on specific business, and that business involved information stored on his laptop. It is clear to me that his intent was to destroy the laptop and drive and dispose of it where he anticipated it would never be found, and if it were, would not provide any information.

I am of the opinion that the phone call to PEF was deceptive and to the best of our knowledge, he did not tell anyone else where he was going. This tells me there was little to no concern on his part about his safety.

My initial thought was that he went to Lewisburg to meet another witness or victim, but that would not explain the intent to destroy the computer, and this to me is very clear with the questions and research he did on that subject. I am 100% on his intent to destroy the computer and that data it contained. Not being tech savvy, he may assumed some data could be recovered from the computer itself and decided to destroy both the computer and hard drive (thinking the RAM chips might retain some data).

Not being a gun person, we can assume shooting himself was not a high probability. No bodies were found down river, ruling out suicide by drowning, and since he was not an outdoor person, one would assume that he would not have walked too far into the woods to commit suicide which would have put him well within the search area.

This puts us back on what we don't know about the money and who the woman he was talking to was. I could not find a travel agency listing in Lewisburg and did not note any on the list of shops in the SOS. My initial thought was that she was a travel agent and had airline tickets, but now am of the opinion she may have provided another vehicle and needed documents and tickets and possibly money. "Together but not holding hands" indicates to me a business meeting rather than a secret lover.

A convenient airport to use would have been Reading Regional. Small, out of the way, easy to leave a car that could be picked up later, and providing commuter flight links to other major airports....and...in the direction of travel if one is leaving Lewisburg and heading across the bridge out of town and dumping the laptop (per J.J.'s test). I know that airport very well and it would be almost perfect for someone who did not want to be noticed. Most of the time the staff looks like they would rather be asleep in a corner, and there is a small cafe and displays to look at to kill time.

I guess no more far fetched than any other theory. Struggling on the major stressor to put events into motion, I am not 100% it was the Sandusky case, but I cannot find anything else rising to that level.

There has been no evidence provided to conclude RG was even in Lewisburg that day or his laptop. A few eyewitnesses believing they saw him does not elevate to fact especially when there was other Mini sightings in town and a very busy busy weekend for a nearby university.

I am having a hard time believing that no one here thinks Ray just wanted to take a Friday off to go for a leisurely drive on a Spring day.
 
  • #422
I think that the number of witnesses, RFG's scent, the fact that his car was there, all support the premise that RFG was in Lewisburg. Let's face it, we have more evidence that Ray Gricar was in Lewisburg that that Sandusky was in a shower on the PSU campus.
 
  • #423
Unfortunately in this case it is impossible to determine what happened to Ray Gricar. This discussion is based on opinion by ALL posters including myself.

I have and continue to believe it is more likely that a DA was murdered than staging a disappearance especially having retirement around the corner. What would be the point of disappearing? What would be gained? To me it does not speak to his character to assume he would neglect his duties as DA, put his family through a messy and very public ordeal, while leaving everything behind.

To believe Gricar did this is an insult to his character.

That said we are all different and are entitled to our own beliefs. For me walkaway makes no sense and there is zero proof to the contrary of Ray's character.

Some of these things are not opinion. We have documentation, some of which is either linked or posted.

Walkaway may make a lot sense, indeed. Here is a list of a few: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/09/26/3350117/the-motive-problem.html

Another one would be to go to where hidden money is. That would presume that there was hidden money.

I would find walkaway less insulting than slinking away to a clandestine meeting about something he declined to tell his SO, friends or staff. For a Catholic, which RFG was nominally, suicide may be regarded as worse.
 
  • #424
There are, and some, if not most, will speak to RFG having a much worse "character."

Sorry I don't follow that statement. Putting away criminals, being an advocate for women's rights, and serving Centre County for nearly 20 years speaks to a respectable and honorable character and NOT the opposite as you have indicated.

Walking away from his life, subjecting his family and loved ones to an awful ordeal with no explanation would tend to make him look worse. That is what you believe and that is fine but in my opinion it's an insult to him and his family.

How does falling victim to foul play in anyway degrade RG's character? LOL
 
  • #425
Having a desire to get rid of personal data off a work laptop does not mean Ray chucked the laptop in the river.
 
  • #426
I have to agree with Saunterer, who was personally part of the searches, that the laptop and hard drive were put in the river AFTER that initial weekend. He was there and nothing is publicly available to suggest he is wrong about that.

This point to foul play and an attempt to steer the investigation. It keeps you stuck in Lewisburg with the Mini Cooper.

I imagine the remains of Mr. Gricar are not that close to Lewisburg or are cleverly hidden. It's a shame the investigation was not taken as foul play. Perhaps the family would have closure one way or the other, whatever the scenario turned out to be.
 
  • #427
Sorry I don't follow that statement. Putting away criminals, being an advocate for women's rights, and serving Centre County for nearly 20 years speaks to a respectable and honorable character and NOT the opposite as you have indicated.

Walking away from his life, subjecting his family and loved ones to an awful ordeal with no explanation would tend to make him look worse. That is what you believe and that is fine but in my opinion it's an insult to him and his family.

BBM

A clandestine meeting would probably not be indicative of that. (Neither is the handling of the Sandusky case.) The circumstances take that trip into what might be a very dark place.

We have RFG taking what strongly looks live a planned trip to Lewisburg. He left no notes on the purpose of the trip. He told neither his coworkers, friends, nor his SO the purpose of the trip. The trip took him 50 miles from home and into an area, a different media market, where RFG would be unlikely to be recognized.

He took his laptop, but it was one where he had expressed an interest in destroying the data on it; that may have been coincidental. If coincidental, he wasn't going to use it to record something. If it wasn't, he is recording something on a laptop and is planning to eliminate the data.

This is the very dark path that we are heading down, that might lead to the heart of Central Pennsylvania Gothic. It might be a false path, but it might be the true one as well.
 
  • #428
There is little doubt in my mind that Ray's job got him killed. I do understand and sympathize with some of the posters who believe walkaway.

There are some elements as presented by the media that could point to him leaving his life. Problem with media reporting is it can steer you a certain way that isn't always the full truth. I think we need not look any further than the PSU coverage.
 
  • #429
BBM

A clandestine meeting would probably not be indicative of that. (Neither is the handling of the Sandusky case.) The circumstances take that trip into what might be a very dark place.

We have RFG taking what strongly looks live a planned trip to Lewisburg. He left no notes on the purpose of the trip. He told neither his coworkers, friends, nor his SO the purpose of the trip. The trip took him 50 miles from home and into an area, a different media market, where RFG would be unlikely to be recognized.

He took his laptop, but it was one where he had expressed an interest in destroying the data on it; that may have been coincidental. If coincidental, he wasn't going to use it to record something. If it wasn't, he is recording something on a laptop and is planning to eliminate the data.

This is the very dark path that we are heading down, that might lead to the heart of Central Pennsylvania Gothic. It might be a false path, but it might be the true one as well.

There is no publicly available evidence that Ray Gricar planned to be in Lewisburg on 4/15/05.
 
  • #430
There is little doubt in my mind that Ray's job got him killed. I do understand and sympathize with some of the posters who believe walkaway.

There are some elements as presented by the media that could point to him leaving his life. Problem with media reporting is it can steer you a certain way that isn't always the full truth. I think we need not look any further than the PSU coverage.

Some the things, the financial data, are not media reports. This is our first bit of hard data on that subject, and it points away from foul play.

If this is job related, as is suggested in the quote, we have RFG driving out of the area where he would be recognized, leaving no notes on the purpose of his trip, telling no one of the purpose of his trip and indicating that he was taking a day off. That could lead us to a dark place indeed.
 
  • #431
There is no publicly available evidence that Ray Gricar planned to be in Lewisburg on 4/15/05.

RFG generated a map on his office computer to Lewisburg (from Disappeared). He was last in his office on 4/14/05 (from numerous sources). The computer was password protected (from JKA's Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury).

Those thing are publicly available and have been February 2011, at the latest.
 
  • #432
RFG generated a map on his office computer to Lewisburg (from Disappeared). He was last in his office on 4/14/05 (from numerous sources). The computer was password protected (from JKA's Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury).

Those thing are publicly available and have been February 2011, at the latest.

I am aware of the map to Lewisburg generated on his office computer however that does not mean he intended to be there on 4/15/05. No time stamp was given as to when the map was generated much like the home Internet searches regarding the laptop/hard drive.
 
  • #433
Some the things, the financial data, are not media reports. This is our first bit of hard data on that subject, and it points away from foul play.

If this is job related, as is suggested in the quote, we have RFG driving out of the area where he would be recognized, leaving no notes on the purpose of his trip, telling no one of the purpose of his trip and indicating that he was taking a day off. That could lead us to a dark place indeed.

I have followed the discussion regarding the financial data. As I predicted another dead end unfortunately. A noble effort though .
 
  • #434
I am aware of the map to Lewisburg generated on his office computer however that does not mean he intended to be there on 4/15/05. No time stamp was given as to when the map was generated much like the home Internet searches regarding the laptop/hard drive.

Actually, the browser may show a rough history. Mine does, and it is chronological. Since the computer was checked fairly early on, it would likely be a recent search. They wouldn't be checking back six months. It was a recent search, though I couldn't say it was 4/14.

The financial data has already yielded useful information, which points away from, though doesn't disprove, foul play.
 
  • #435
Having a desire to get rid of personal data off a work laptop does not mean Ray chucked the laptop in the river.

There were also the searches at home. The police have said that RFG did the searches.

I don't find anything too unusual about tossing a drive or wanting to get rid of personal data when approaching retirement. It seems to be prudent. I would not find it sinister.

RFG could simply re-reimburse the county for a used computer.
 
  • #436
Actually, the browser may show a rough history. Mine does, and it is chronological. Since the computer was checked fairly early on, it would likely be a recent search. They wouldn't be checking back six months. It was a recent search, though I couldn't say it was 4/14.

The financial data has already yielded useful information, which points away from, though doesn't disprove, foul play.

<modsnip> I thinks it likely they went back in the browser history as far as they could but at least a year. That is just my opinion though. Regardless LE has never said WHEN the map was generated.
 
  • #437
There were also the searches at home. The police have said that RFG did the searches.

I don't find anything too unusual about tossing a drive or wanting to get rid of personal data when approaching retirement. It seems to be prudent. I would not find it sinister.

RFG could simply re-reimburse the county for a used computer.

Tossing his laptop and hard drive in the river is not consistent with his character
 
  • #438
I have read nothing regarding the financial data that has advanced this case
 
  • #439
Tossing his laptop and hard drive in the river is not consistent with his character

Maybe, but it's very consistent with his internet searches about water damage to a notebook computer and how to wreck a hard drive.
 
  • #440
Maybe, but it's very consistent with his internet searches about water damage to a notebook computer and how to wreck a hard drive.

That of course is assuming RG actually did those searches. I have to wonder why ditching the laptop and hard drive in the river was necessary since hard drive wiping software was purchased. Also it seems to me if it was Gricar who destroyed the equipment then why he didn't do it more discreetly. Smashing it with a hammer and scattering the pieces in different locations seems more effective. Dumping it near his car where searches were obviously going to be conducted is not near as discreet.
 
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