PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #13

[MissJ]

If they really thought it was foul play, and were relatively sure, they would not be checking out other states. When the looked for Hoffa, they dug things up.

Interestingly, in other cases, they have been a bit more open including discussing murder. They may say, **We rule nothing out,** but they look at things. Cindy Song is an example from the same county. They are matching up DNA and talk about that; it is because they think she is dead. In RFG's case, they are looking at sightings. That does not rule out murder, but that isn't the focus. It doesn't mean they are right.

Now, why are suddenly three stories in one day, with nothing new, except for that tidbit?

JMO but I would hope they would still check all possible sightings. If they didn't I'd feel they were doing an inadequate job.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JMO but I would hope they would still check all possible sightings. If they didn't I'd feel they were doing an inadequate job.

After the initial weeks, they didn't with Song. At least they did not release it.

I am just saying, that at this point, the PSP is not focusing on murder.

 

[SeekingJana]

If they really thought it was foul play, and were relatively sure, they would not be checking out other states. When the looked for Hoffa, they dug things up.

Interestingly, in other cases, they have been a bit more open including discussing murder. They may say, **We rule nothing out,** but they look at things. Cindy Song is an example from the same county. They are matching up DNA and talk about that; it is because they think she is dead. In RFG's case, they are looking at sightings. That does not rule out murder, but that isn't the focus. It doesn't mean they are right.

Now, why are suddenly three stories in one day, with nothing new, except for that tidbit?

IDK.. did you phone some news reporters on a slow hot August day?
Sounds like something I would do if I had my usual spidey sense of something about to break... in this horrid heat.. when tempers are short and days are long and nights last forever. You walk the beat of the streets, you hear things..

Seriously, either this is a " Cat is on the roof situation, or news outlets ( and the investigating OIC) are bored up there, and Gricar's story requires NO leg work to update. Talking to eye witnesses takes leg work, but updating the status takes just what we are doing here.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It was 64 today in State College.

IFK.. did you phone some news reporters on a slow hot August day?
Sounds like something I would do if I had my usual spidey sense of something about to break... in this horrid heat.. when tempers are short and days are long and nights last forever. You walk the beat of the streets, you hear things..

Seriously, either this is a " Cat is on the roof situation, or news outlets ( and the investigating OIC) are bored up there, and Gricar's story requires NO leg work to update. Talking to eye witnesses takes leg work, but updating the status takes just what we are doing here.

Robin Williams, a governor's race, and the PSU sanctions are all brewing and hot topics.

Two storied actually required talking to the PSP, and they are talking.

 

[SeekingJana]

It was 64 today in State College.






Robin Williams, a governor's race, and the PSU sanctions are all brewing and hot topics.

Two storied actually required talking to the PSP, and they are talking.

I was teasing you... you know, like how we used to banter back and forth. The H2O is 94 degrees in my pool.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I was teasing you... you know, like how we used to banter back and forth. The H2O is 94 degrees in my pool.

I figured, which is I added the .

Either a gigantic coincidence, LE was pushing it, or they are working on a story with something new.


Other than having me salivating like Pavlov's Dog, I can't figure out why LE would be pushing it, without too much substance. Yes, the PSP is still considering walkaway. And? That isn't evidence that RFG did or didn't walk away.

 

[SeekingJana]

:floorlaugh: at the thought of J.J. salivating like Pavlov's dogs.

No matter what, no matter when this is resolved, I will never forget you saying this or the image it creates. :beagle:

 

[BigCat]

After the initial weeks, they didn't with Song. At least they did not release it.

I am just saying, that at this point, the PSP is not focusing on murder.

Perhaps all homicide leads are simply exhausted at this point.

 

[MissJ]

JMO, I truly respect Tracers opinion. If he/she says RFG was a walk away I believe it. Or whatever otherwise. I rspect experts!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Perhaps all homicide leads are simply exhausted at this point.

They would almost have to had ruled out homicide then.

 

[Trackergd]

They would almost have to had ruled out homicide then.

Do we really have enough verified evidence to rule any of the four scenario's out? If PSP has something pointing towards any scenario, they are not sharing.

Homicide - Not sharing because they don't want to tip off the perp(s).
Suicide - Not sharing until they have a body, and then only after clearing it with the family.
Walkaway - Have not located him yet and for that matter, it's not a crime. The only person they "may" be required to tell is his daughter.
Other - Depending on what the "other" is, it may be something they will not or cannot make public.

How much influence could a Governor exert to quash or impede an investigation at a State level?

 

[BigCat]

Do we really have enough verified evidence to rule any of the four scenario's out? If PSP has something pointing towards any scenario, they are not sharing.

Homicide - Not sharing because they don't want to tip off the perp(s).
Suicide - Not sharing until they have a body, and then only after clearing it with the family.
Walkaway - Have not located him yet and for that matter, it's not a crime. The only person they "may" be required to tell is his daughter.
Other - Depending on what the "other" is, it may be something they will not or cannot make public.

How much influence could a Governor exert to quash or impede an investigation at a State level?

"lame duck Governor" would be appropriate in this situation. My guess is he would have not much influence.

 

[Trackergd]

"lame duck Governor" would be appropriate in this situation. My guess is he would have not much influence.

That is assuming Wolf beats him.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped:

Do we really have enough verified evidence to rule any of the four scenario's out? If PSP has something pointing towards any scenario, they are not sharing.

It was the phrasing. They said in that one article that following up on "sightings" in other states. They didn't say leads?

I was looking at this in the context of homicide leads being "exhausted." I wouldn't think they would be, unless there was solid evidence of how RFG got out of Lewisburg, or they had a confirmed sighting well after 4/16/05.

They could, however, be looking for a witness in the PSU 3 trial. It is not illegal to disappear, but LE does look for witnesses.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is what I'm talking about.

Here is another missing person from Centre County, Dawn Marie Miller: http://www.statecollege.com/news/local-news/vanished-the-story-of-dawn-marie-miller,1460275/

The police/DA are openly suggesting she was murdered. The DA has hinted, strongly, that the suspect is dead.

Now, I'd need a lot more evidence before I'd say RFG was not murdered.

 

[SeekingJana]

Do we really have enough verified evidence to rule any of the four scenario's out? If PSP has something pointing towards any scenario, they are not sharing.

Homicide - Not sharing because they don't want to tip off the perp(s).
Suicide - Not sharing until they have a body, and then only after clearing it with the family.
Walkaway - Have not located him yet and for that matter, it's not a crime. The only person they "may" be required to tell is his daughter.
Other - Depending on what the "other" is, it may be something they will not or cannot make public.

How much influence could a Governor exert to quash or impede an investigation at a State level?

To answer the first part, no, we don't have enough evidence to rule anything in or out. Most pathetic trickle of info on a missing person that I've seen... well, no, there is my missing neighbor, William Moore.. his is a missing case here, but he's been gone for 2 years.. not 9.4 years.
So, to rephrase, for a missing persons case for almost 10 years, we have scant evidence released to us about anything.

I can't speculate on PA politics. I can't stand the thought of any negative political influence being exerted on the investigation.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

My comments are more about what LE thinks, not actually what happened.

Every indication we are getting is they think that RFG's disappearance was not foul play.

 

[SeekingJana]

My comments are more about what LE thinks, not actually what happened.

Every indication we are getting is they think that RFG's disappearance was not foul play.

I'm sorry. Was AFK for a couple of days.. forgot that the discussion about this subject started a page back. I agree that it doesn't seem that they are looking for remains, but then... where would they, and how would they, at this point? IDK much of anything because they haven't told us much of anything.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm sorry. Was AFK for a couple of days.. forgot that the discussion about this subject started a page back. I agree that it doesn't seem that they are looking for remains, but then... where would they, and how would they, at this point? IDK much of anything because they haven't told us much of anything.

Across the river would be one place. It is on the first page of this thread.

They have told us a lot, including "homicide is the least likely." The only questions are, why do they think that and are they right?

 

[Trackergd]

Across the river would be one place. It is on the first page of this thread.

They have told us a lot, including "homicide is the least likely." The only questions are, why do they think that and are they right?

RBBM

To a Tracker, there are quite a few "indicators" we use when attempting to locate an individual that has a high potential for being deceased.

1. Bird activity - Flock of turkey buzzards or a murder of crows in an area.
2. Intense insect activity - hoards of flies in an area.
3. Scent - Sometimes you don't need a dog to know something is dead in an area.
4. Scavenger activity - signs of activity from known ground dwelling scavenger/carrion eaters. Pieces of bone, etc...

If someone with the skills to detect these signs was not in the area within 48 hours of RG going missing, the signs degrade over the next few days. Most LE have not been trained in these skills since the 1800's.