PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm not a guru, a mystic or a fortune teller.
However, I do believe that when people know as much as the guy knew that came to pass about the Titanic, and as much as you knew which has parallels to the Gricar case, the answer can't be pushed away because it's scary.

Because of the details, and because the book about the ' Titan" likely could have saved the Titanic if it had been widely read and believed as a cautionary tale, I believe it was a form of prophetic writing. The person doesn't have to believe it. The facts that the two parallel stories did happen is the proof that likely, there was foreknowledge not recognized as such.

Did you write a full outline of the missing DA? If so, how did your book end? Would you change the ending now?

It was fairly widely read. When readers heard about the Titanic, they immediately saw the parallels.

There are coincidences.

 

[SeekingJana]

I agree, of course, that there are coincidences. However, some things which one person shrugs off as 10-20 coincidences about an unsinkable cruise liner sinking due to an iceberg on its maiden voyage might not be considered as only a coincidence by other people.
It's a matter of personal perspective and looking at the odds afterwards and calculating percentages of probability that X number of happenings with the Titanic are coincidences, but Y number of common happenings between the Titan and the Titanic could be an expression of a type of precognition that humans simply do not understand well enough to duplicate it with accuracy.
It's real, it's valid, but we can't yet duplicate the randomness of each factor by any method with accuracy. I'm a person who lived most of my life with the scientific method as proof or disproving. Learning how much can't be anticipated or planned in life, especially in a spiraling set of actions and reactions in a disaster, after the fact, is almost always one of the most shocking parts of the disaster.
I have read books which strongly suggested the Titanic's sinking was deliberately planned.. I consider that train of thought to be less valid in the absence of proof of sabotage than the existence of the book written 15 years before, which is its own proof... once the Titanic sank.

I wish you'd written your book.

Respectfully, IMO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I did a map of the Lewisburg locations. It is for orientation and should be accurate to about 20 feet.

 

[SeekingJana]

I did a map of the Lewisburg locations. It is for orientation and should be accurate to about 20 feet.

Thanks! Almost has gotten to be a sort of " Holy Land", not in a disrespectful way, after so many years. You did a great job, as usual.

Where's our Trackergd? He likes this sort of thing too.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A while back, I said would look at things in this case that are definite. I'm asking everyone here to play Devil's Advocate.

1. RFG's demeanor changed in the weeks before he disappeared.

Case for this:

The public reports of this are from M. Joseph, a reporter, (3/8/o5) C. Spotts, a court administrator (3/9/05), PEF (about 4/1/05), JKA (about 4/11/05), members of the Prison Board (4/14/05). I'm not looking at the date per se, but it is enough to say that there was a change in demeanor by the time he disappeared.

The description has ranged from not being focused (Spotts, Joseph), tired and sleeping more (PEF), distraught (JKA), staring out the window and mumbling (Prison Board members).

Is there enough evidence to support the bolded statement?

 

[GarAndTeed]

RFG was not known as a science fiction fan. The book he was reading when 20/20 Vision came out was
Echoes in the Darkness, a true crime book by Joseph Wambaugh (about the Susan Reinert murder in the Philadelphia suburbs).

Just out of curiosity, does this book, or the fact that RFG was reading it at that particular time, have any significance? Thanks J.J.!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just out of curiosity, does this book, or the fact that RFG was reading it at that particular time, have any significance? Thanks J.J.!

Not really. I was just posting it as an example of what RFG read. Science fiction was not normally on his reading list.

Echoes in the Darkness was a popular book and was TV miniseries in 1987. One of the people initially convicted of the murder was taking his case though the courts at the time; his conviction was overturned due to police misconduct.

 

[GarAndTeed]

Not really. I was just posting it as an example of what RFG read. Science fiction was not normally on his reading list.

Echoes in the Darkness was a popular book and was TV miniseries in 1987. One of the people initially convicted of the murder was taking his case though the courts at the time; his conviction was overturned due to police misconduct.

I know! I have it and have read it numerous times; I still think Jay Smith was guilty, it's too bad the P.D. messed things up. Back on topic, I was just curious as to whether RFG had a special interest in the case, since it was in PA. Thanks for your reply, J.J.!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This is another one of those things things in this case that are definite. Again, please play Devil's Advocate.

2. RFG wanted the information on the laptop to be unrecoverable and was, at least, planning to eliminate that data.

The case for this:

RFG bought erasure software about a year before; the box was found. He had inquired with a defense attorney about how to eliminate that data; I wish I could shed some more light on that was. He did Internet searches in early 2005 on "water damage" to a tablet and "how to fry a hard drive."

Is there enough evidence to support the bolded statement?

I'm not suggesting a purpose for RFG's desire to destroy the data. It possibly may not be related to his disappearance. I am only suggested that he wanted that data eliminated.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is another one of the definite case; again, please play Devil's Advocate.

3. RFG planned to traveled to Lewisburg and arrived there on 4/15/05.

First, we know that RFG used his computer to find a route to Lewisburg (even though he knew the route). We also know that he checked the weather for Lewisburg, along with another location where he was seen the day before, Raystown Lake. He would have had on or before 4/14/05, because he was not in the office at any point after that.

Second, witnesses that knew RFG saw him driving to Lewisburg. What is important is when the last of the witnesses that knew him saw him. That was about 11:30-11:35 AM in Centre Hall. This witness was not publicized until 2011 and the time was disclosed even at that point. At least one of the witnesses stated that RFG was in Lewisburg, across from the Packwood House Museum, at "lunch time." This was not disclosed until the summer of 2005.

The distance from the intersection in Centre Hall to the Packwood House is 46.2 miles . Traveling at average of 60 MPH, RFG would have arrived around 12:16 PM, at the earliest. Traveling at an average speed of 45 MPH, RFG would have reached there at 12:36 PM at the latest. Both of those times are "lunch time."

There is no way for either witness to have known what the other saw, yet there is this dovetailing of reports.

Third, at least two witnesses saw RFG in the SoS parking lot, driving the Mini Cooper at about 5:00 PM on 4/15/05. The Mini was found in the parking lot and RFG's scent was detected in the parking lot by a bloodhound.

Again, please play Devil's Advocate.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Nobody is willing to play Devil's Advocate?

 

[minazoe]

it's still bizarre and something is not right.. even his relationship is weird..

was he a megalomaniac or something? ladies man? does this mean he was a player?

I still cannot imagine a suicide, a walk away to nothing, a cold and inexplicable suicide
leaving no closure just a void of emptiness and not a note or any reason.

it's just not logical.

where is Ray?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

it's still bizarre and something is not right.. even his relationship is weird..

was he a megalomaniac or something? ladies man? does this mean he was a player?

I still cannot imagine a suicide, a walk away to nothing, a cold and inexplicable suicide
leaving no closure just a void of emptiness and not a note or any reason.

it's just not logical.

where is Ray?

He was known to have a bit of an ego, but I wouldn't say megalomaniac.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

it's still bizarre and something is not right.. even his relationship is weird..

was he a megalomaniac or something? ladies man? does this mean he was a player?

I still cannot imagine a suicide, a walk away to nothing, a cold and inexplicable suicide
leaving no closure just a void of emptiness and not a note or any reason.

it's just not logical.

where is Ray?

The assumption of a "walk away to nothing" is not necessarily accurate. The is a potential of a lot of money missing, money that could be sent someplace else.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I've been looking at 4/14, and something popped up that I hadn't seen, but was staring me in the face.

On 4/14/05, RFG returned to the Courthouse at 6:21 PM and left at 9:03 PM. RFG was known to stay at the office after hours. It was not uncommon for him to work late.

We know that he had nothing the next day. He had to, possibly, take over for an ADA in the questioning of one witness on 4/18/05.

Here is a picture of RFG's desk calendar (from PennLive). It is filled with things, including LG's birthday and possibly something for PEF on a Sunday. However, most of things are scheduled for other people. You can see the initials of other ADA's that would be handling the case. The only one he had was starting on June 1.

Now, DA's do other things than try cases, but it doesn't look like there was anything urgent. The county budget runs from 1/1 to 12/31 of the same year; it is usually adopted in November and December. It is way too early to do budgeting, so that wasn't the reason. He would have the Prison Board Meeting in May, but that was literally a month away.

RFG had nothing on 4/15 and, in May, nothing other than the PBM pending. RFG spent 3 hours in the Courthouse on the evening on 4/14. If RFG is doing something work related, what is so urgent that he will spend three hours on it at the office? If it isn't work related, what is it?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I saw a Mini today; I measured it with my cane and Swiss Army knife. On that model, the bottom of the window is about 42" off the ground, if not a bit higher. The barrier on the bridge was 32"-34."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The radio show, The Woman's Room, from Altoona, will be doing another show on RFG's disappearance. They will be interviewing the reporter that wrote the Hell Angles story in 2013. The radio station does not stream anymore, but they should post a podcast.

I will link it when they do.

 

[Justsayn]

Can anyone tell me if RFG prosecuted any football players? Did he know Paterno or any of Paterno's cronies? (I'm not that focused on Sandusky, FWIW). I ask because I live in a Big 10 town, and I had a close relative who was very invested in football; I don't remember as many specific details as I'd like, but it was crazy...TONS of politics, coaches getting fired because they didn't have the right connections; nasty, ugly rumors, and big wigs taking sides, making payoffs, etc. I'm just wondering if RFG really ticked someone in the football community off, either by a prosecution, or by not "playing the game" (as in worshiping Paterno, etc.)- or inadvertently. Thanks for any info!

This also perplexed me. I also question the possible link of the judge from wellsboro pa. I will have to look up the specifics. But, IMO that whole situation was glossed over. And State College seems to forget. You know what happens when we forget about history? It repeats itself.

 

[Kittybunny]

I've been looking at 4/14, and something popped up that I hadn't seen, but was staring me in the face.

On 4/14/05, RFG returned to the Courthouse at 6:21 PM and left at 9:03 PM. RFG was known to stay at the office after hours. It was not uncommon for him to work late.

We know that he had nothing the next day. He had to, possibly, take over for an ADA in the questioning of one witness on 4/18/05.

Here is a picture of RFG's desk calendar (from PennLive). It is filled with things, including LG's birthday and possibly something for PEF on a Sunday. However, most of things are scheduled for other people. You can see the initials of other ADA's that would be handling the case. The only one he had was starting on June 1.

Now, DA's do other things than try cases, but it doesn't look like there was anything urgent. The county budget runs from 1/1 to 12/31 of the same year; it is usually adopted in November and December. It is way too early to do budgeting, so that wasn't the reason. He would have the Prison Board Meeting in May, but that was literally a month away.

RFG had nothing on 4/15 and, in May, nothing other than the PBM pending. RFG spent 3 hours in the Courthouse on the evening on 4/14. If RFG is doing something work related, what is so urgent that he will spend three hours on it at the office? If it isn't work related, what is it?

Oooh, very intriguing thoughts, J.J. Who really wants to go to the office after hours for that long unless they absolutely have to? I wonder if any analysis of activity/tasks of his work computer that evening of 4/14 was done - emails, files saved like Word docs, etc. - presuming he never used that computer again, it would be fairly easy to see if files were created, at least. My Office stuff shows when documents were last edited. If nothing created or edited, then maybe we assume files were deleted?

Another point towards hiding, covering tracks.

 

[GarAndTeed]

Oooh, very intriguing thoughts, J.J. Who really wants to go to the office after hours for that long unless they absolutely have to? I wonder if any analysis of activity/tasks of his work computer that evening of 4/14 was done - emails, files saved like Word docs, etc. - presuming he never used that computer again, it would be fairly easy to see if files were created, at least. My Office stuff shows when documents were last edited. If nothing created or edited, then maybe we assume files were deleted?

Another point towards hiding, covering tracks.

That's what I was thinking, @Kittybunny...maybe checking to make sure none of whatever he was worried about on the laptop wasn't on his desktop?