PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[minazoe]

could Ray have spent three hours in his office communicating with someone? did he take the laptop to the office? could Ray have had a unknown cell phone?

I think if Ray had been a psychopath we could easily imagine him walking away from his life,
with all the money stashed away and a woman waiting in a hotel somewhere. But there is no
evidence that Ray is a stone cold sociopath.

then again, maybe Ray made a mistake and was in deep trouble and had to hide it and get out of dodge...but the thing he had done/participated in never came to light.

some people are deeply sick when it comes to money..let's say Ray made major bank on a bet
or a deal or investment and he didn't want to share it, it could buy him a whole new reality and didn't want any baggage.

I hope we one day find him. I really do..so everyone can end the speculation and move on.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped for brevity only.

could Ray have spent three hours in his office communicating with someone? did he take the laptop to the office? could Ray have had a unknown cell phone?

RFG could have communicated from the office, without leaving a data trail, at least two different ways:

1. An unknown cell is possible.

2. Provided it was a local call, he could have used his office phone. At the time, all calls were routed through a central switch board; there was no way to tell from what office the call had originated. There would be no billing record of a local call.

RFG did not have the laptop with him.

I think if Ray had been a psychopath we could easily imagine him walking away from his life,
with all the money stashed away and a woman waiting in a hotel somewhere. But there is no
evidence that Ray is a stone cold sociopath.

then again, maybe Ray made a mistake and was in deep trouble and had to hide it and get out of dodge...but the thing he had done/participated in never came to light.

RFG had a thing about money. About 6 weeks into his first term, he started lobbying the commissioners to make the position full time, effectively doubling his salary. He turned down a offer to add an ADA to take ovr part of the work load. He had continue to push for that for about 10 years.

At the time, in 1986, his then wife, BG, was a tenured professor at PSU. She was probably making more than a full time DA did. It wasn't a particular question of needing money. When they came to Centre County, the original plan was for RFG to be a stay at home father, with LG.

In 1999-01, he had that famous fight with his second wife, EG, when he left for the Indian's ballgame. The fight was over buying furniture. EG, however, had her own job as an optician, which was fairly good. Money should not have Issue. He was grossing over $100,000 at that point.

Money just moght have been a way to keep score, as it were.

 

[minazoe]

hmmm..interesting...seems like he was living well below his means...which is kind of weird.

maybe he was hoarding money...

well something was definitely going on in that office , he didn't just sit there for three hours did he? didn't he slam out the door or something weird that night?

saying goodbye to his desk? he didn't seem concerned about goodbyes to his co-workers or
anyone else.

looks like marriage was not his thing.

hmm. mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

hmmm..interesting...seems like he was living well below his means...which is kind of weird.

maybe he was hoarding money...

well something was definitely going on in that office , he didn't just sit there for three hours did he? didn't he slam out the door or something weird that night?

saying goodbye to his desk? he didn't seem concerned about goodbyes to his co-workers or
anyone else.

looks like marriage was not his thing.

hmm. mOO

There was a description of what is known of RFG's financial situations in thread 14. At the start of thread 15, there are a series of timelines which include 4/14/05.

The "forceful door closings" as JKA described, were in the afternoon of 4/14.

RFG had substantially lower assets than should be suspected. His estate was worth less than $25 K. Some of that was due to having his assets being owned jointly by his daughter, but $50 K would still be low.

The estimates I've heard on his estate were between $80,000 and just over $100,000, both of are low for someone making his salary.

 

[minazoe]

Ray is something of an enigma. mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ray is something of an enigma. mOO

The former president judge, Brown, described him as "a hard guy to know."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We had a body pulled out of the Susquehanna about 2 days ago that went in January; it was probably less than a mile down stream from where he went in. Man found in Susquehanna ID’d through tattoos, had been missing since jumping from bridge in January

It is very unlikely that RFG's body would not have been found if he was in the river.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Imo, meticulous Ray was in his office that night making absolutely certain he hadn't left anything that could link him to his new life. That's the same reason he wiped his laptop and then tried to destroy whatever could be obtained from it by the FBI. Although Ray had pension funds he wouldn't be able to spend from Centre county, he very likely had other monies or gold secretly stashed from his decades of employment. He paid off the house and left his daughter his car to alleviate the guilt of abandoning them. His visited his favorite places around the area before he voluntarily disappeared.

Ray appeared to be moral and mentally stable. He would be the type of individual who would not cope well with public shame. Imo, he may have worried he was going to be linked to something extremely shameful and this terrible shame would follow him forever. To avoid living his final decades with extreme humiliation, he fled in such a manner to save himself.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Imo, meticulous Ray was in his office that night making absolutely certain he hadn't left anything that could link him to his new life. That's the same reason he wiped his laptop and then tried to destroy whatever could be obtained from it by the FBI. Although Ray had pension funds he wouldn't be able to spend from Centre county, he very likely had other monies or gold secretly stashed from his decades of employment. He paid off the house and left his daughter his car to alleviate the guilt of abandoning them. His visited his favorite places around the area before he voluntarily disappeared.

Ray appeared to be moral and mentally stable. He would be the type of individual who would not cope well with public shame. Imo, he may have worried he was going to be linked to something extremely shameful and this terrible shame would follow him forever. To avoid living his final decades with extreme humiliation, he fled in such a manner to save himself.

Minazoe suggested that there could some "trouble" that has not come out. That is certainly possible.

One thing that I am looking at is hiding money overseas in his second divorce; in his first divorce, the first wife was making more than he was.

RFG is the one who filed for divorce, in March of 2001. He set the timing on it. He could have moved money some years prior to that, basically getting all his ducks in a row, and then file. RFG could have planned to move the money back into the US.

The divorce was granted on 7/30/01, though it might not have been finalized until later. Even if it was finalized, RFG could not have known about the 9/11 attack. After that, he might not have been able to move the money into the US. So he decides to go to the money.

He pays off everything, and at the right moment, vanishes. He goes to the country where he can access his money and retires there. A forensic audit might have shown that.

 

[minazoe]

interesting. mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

As of yet, no press stories on the 14th anniversary.

 

[8truthseeker8]

Apologies if this has been discussed. I just watched the 72nd episode of the Trace Evidence Podcast entitled, "The Disappearance of Ray Gricar." At the very end, the host, Steven Pacheco states that RG may use alternate last names, "Gray or Grey" and/or Lang. This sort of caught me off guard....... Your thoughts? I watched/listened to the podcast on YouTube; the time stamp 51:35 - 51:40

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Apologies if this has been discussed. I just watched the 72nd episode of the Trace Evidence Podcast entitled, "The Disappearance of Ray Gricar." At the very end, the host, Steven Pacheco states that RG may use alternate last names, "Gray or Grey" and/or Lang. This sort of caught me off guard....... Your thoughts? I watched/listened to the podcast on YouTube; the time stamp 51:35 - 51:40

Those were the maiden names of his ex-wives. It just showed up on a credit report. He did not use those names.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

When I see scenes of Saul Goodman (Better Call Saul) working at the Omaha Cinnabon, I immediately think of Ray Gricar.

Ray didn't need a lot of money to run away. He just needed a fake identity and a mustache or beard to survive. If anyone would know how to obtain a fake identity, Ray would.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

When I see scenes of Saul Goodman (Better Call Saul) working at the Omaha Cinnabon, I immediately think of Ray Gricar.

Ray didn't need a lot of money to run away. He just needed a fake identity and a mustache or beard to survive. If anyone would know how to obtain a fake identity, Ray would.

That isn't proof, however.

What evidence there is, makes a voluntary departure look probable. Probable isn't proof.

 

[GarAndTeed]

I think if Ray had been a psychopath we could easily imagine him walking away from his life,
with all the money stashed away and a woman waiting in a hotel somewhere. But there is no
evidence that Ray is a stone cold sociopath.

I don't see RFG as a sociopath at all. However, J.J., what was the deal with RFG asking a waitress to marry him??? I wouldn't be surprised if he'd had women on the side. Not going to go as far as him having one waiting on him, but he didn't seem to be exactly shy in that area (please correct me if I'm wrong in re: the waitress).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't see RFG as a sociopath at all. However, J.J., what was the deal with RFG asking a waitress to marry him??? I wouldn't be surprised if he'd had women on the side. Not going to go as far as him having one waiting on him, but he didn't seem to be exactly shy in that area (please correct me if I'm wrong in re: the waitress).

RFG was know as "a lady's man and a charmer."

Consider this, between 2001 and 2003, he divorced his wife, asked the waitress to marry him, and moved in with PEF. That is just what we have documented.

 

[GarAndTeed]

J.J. Can you refresh my memory- was the waitress well known to him? I seem to recall people being kind of shocked about this (shocked may not be the best term- migraine here).
Thanks!

 

[GarAndTeed]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but April 15- income tax- any significance in your opinion?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but April 15- income tax- any significance in your opinion?

I thought it was a waitress, but it was a nurse; it was described as being "spontaneous." He just flirted with the waitress. https://www.pennlive.com/midstate/2015/04/looking_back_at_ray_gricar_on.html

The only potential link to April 15 was from the book 20/20 Vision; most of the action took place on 4/15 of different years.

RFG had filed his 2004 tax return; he had also filed his 2004 Statement of Financial Interest on 3/2/05.