PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[J. J. in Phila]

but IF staged, it would have to be done by person(s) who knew he was into antiquing, imo.

Not necessarily, and I would even say unlikely.

It could have a person who arranged a meet with RFG.

 

[Kelly_RJ]

Wondered if Ray could have planned his disappearance on his own, with no help from anyone personally known to him at least?

I also thought I read somewhere that he did not plan to run again for District Attorney. Seems like his life was changing.

My big question is why they did not do a forensic audit on his financials? From what I have read that was never done.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Wondered if Ray could have planned his disappearance on his own, with no help from anyone personally known to him at least?

I also thought I read somewhere that he did not plan to run again for District Attorney. Seems like his life was changing.

My big question is why they did not do a forensic audit on his financials? From what I have read that was never done.

It is very possible. RFG could have bought a used car with cash.

In April of 2005, I purchased a used car. Even though the ownership transfer was sent in on the same day, it took over 3 months to arrive. I had to go through AAA to have it processed. The reason was that there was fire at the PennDOT state office. It would have been possible for RFG to have bought a car and it not go into the system until much later. He could have sold the car by that point. That is the way he could have left Lewisburg.

Why the police never did a forensic audit is beyond me.

 

[Kelly_RJ]

It is very possible. RFG could have bought a used car with cash.

In April of 2005, I purchased a used car. Even though the ownership transfer was sent in on the same day, it took over 3 months to arrive. I had to go through AAA to have it processed. The reason was that there was fire at the PennDOT state office. It would have been possible for RFG to have bought a car and it not go into the system until much later. He could have sold the car by that point. That is the way he could have left Lewisburg.

Why the police never did a forensic audit is beyond me.

Interesting. I wondered that too re a used car with cash. Seemed like he didn't seem to have a lot of money saved in comparison to what he made. Maybe he slowly stashed some cash away over a long period of time and it went unnoticed.

It just seems like he would have the knowledge to disappear and I just can't wrap my mind around that they did not do a forensic audit. It should have been standard to do that given the circumstances IMO.

I was also reading that a lot of his case information was missing or not organized well. Think it was an article from Pennlive.com, will have to find the link.
Probably a stupid question but is it too late now to do any kind of forensic investigation or have they all but given up on doing anything active with RG's case?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It is effectively a cold case.

It would depend. Some document may have been preserved. People that had conversations with RFG about money are still around.

 

[Kelly_RJ]

It is effectively a cold case.

It would depend. Some document may have been preserved. People that had conversations with RFG about money are still around.

Man. They should do one. Wish I had the knowledge to do one. Shot in the dark but maybe something will make it a more active case again.

I was just reading the case was assigned to someone new in 2018 but it does not seem like any new progress has really been made.
And the laptop gets to me. Obviously there was something on it he did not want people to see. And no way to recover any data. So many unanswered questions.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped for emphasis only.

Man. They should do one. Wish I had the knowledge to do one. Shot in the dark but maybe something will make it a more active case again.

It isn't a question of knowledge as much one of data. We can only get the public information.

In late 2013, the case was transferred to the PSP, where it has languished. They would handle any tips, if they came in, but they don't seem to be actively looking.

And the laptop gets to me. Obviously there was something on it he did not want people to see. And no way to recover any data. So many unanswered questions.

This could be anything from personal financial information, to his private diary, to his travel plans. I think most of us think it is related to his disappearance, but we can't be sure.

[sarcasm]I am filled with certainty tonight.[/sarcasm]

 

[Kelly_RJ]

Snipped for emphasis only.



It isn't a question of knowledge as much one of data. We can only get the public information.

In late 2013, the case was transferred to the PSP, where it has languished. They would handle any tips, if they came in, but they don't seem to be actively looking.



This could be anything from personal financial information, to his private diary, to his travel plans. I think most of us think it is related to his disappearance, but we can't be sure.

[sarcasm]I am filled with certainty tonight.[/sarcasm]

I am in that club. I think his new life was on that laptop! If he did indeed plan his disappearance he has done quite the job of it so far.

This is an article I saw that mentioned a new investigator from 2018. Hopefully he follows the $$$$$$
https://www.centredaily.com/latest-news/article209528394.html

 

[Daisy1980]

Not necessarily, and I would even say unlikely.

It could have a person who arranged a meet with RFG.

What do you think are the options for the car at this particular parking lot? Also is it fair to assume there were no security cameras?

So the options for car are either:
1: Ray drove it there
-to go antiquing and something happened to him, foul play
-to meet someone there, disappear
-to commit suicide either via river or ?

2: someone else drove it there
-to stage the scene to appear to be any of the above

 

[Daisy1980]

random thought: was his 2004 Mini Cooper manual or automatic transmission?

 

[skoogmagoo]

Hello! I am new here. Long time lurker, one of my first times posting.

I have read about this case on and off throughout the years. This is probably silly, but I have always wondered. Is it possible that Ray was the one that smoked the cigarette, or at least lit the cigarette and let it burn some? Maybe to throw the people off he knew would eventually come looking for him? I thought I had read they found cigarette ashes in the car, but that Ray did not smoke and was known to be against it.

Just seems like a smart way to throw people off. Always wondered if he disappeared intentionally to start a new life. He seemed to have the knowledge to know how to do it. Maybe his new life was on the laptop he destroyed?

Just some thoughts that maybe have been mentioned before. Such a strange case and has always drawn me in.

It was a small bit of ash. Not a long ash. Not a cig butt, just one tiny bit of ash.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What do you think are the options for the car at this particular parking lot? Also is it fair to assume there were no security cameras?

So the options for car are either:
1: Ray drove it there
-to go antiquing and something happened to him, foul play
-to meet someone there, disappear
-to commit suicide either via river or ?

2: someone else drove it there
-to stage the scene to appear to be any of the above

There were no security cameras at the Street of Shops (SoS).

Except for something random, antiquing is unlikely. The killer, "K," would either had have to known that RFG was going antiquing or followed him.

There is no suggestion that RFG had planned to go antiquing specifically, and he did not go the SoS immediately, according to the witnesses. He would have had to told someone that he would be at the SoS, and not tell his girlfriend.

The route RFG took was rural and it had some long strait stretches. It would be difficult to follow RFG without him noticing him. As noted above, he didn't go their directly, and it would be difficult following him around Lewisburg for the amount of time that the witnesses put him there. He was also known to have drive very fast, which would mean that the tail would have driven equally fast.

IMO, your first point under one can be ruled out. However, all of that would not rule out meeting someone in Lewisburg, a clandestine meeting. Whomever he met, under this scenario, could be K. K might not have even set out to kill RFG.

The second has a lot of evidence against it. Someone who recognized RFG, a "county worker," saw him turning on 192 at Centre Hall. Another witness who recognized him, at the time, saw him in Lewisburg between 4:00 and 5:00 PM, going south on Route 15, north of Lewisburg. His scent was detected by tracking dog in the parking lot, where other witnesses saw him inside the Mini between 5:00 PM and 5:30. Again, someone else driving the Mini to Lewisburg is, IMO, impossible. That does not preclude someone else driving the Mini after it arrived in Lewisburg.

 

[Daisy1980]

JJ do you know if his 2004 Mini Cooper was manual or automatic transmission?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ do you know if his 2004 Mini Cooper was manual or automatic transmission?

No, but they did come with both.

 

[DeathbyBoobie]

Here is a nice summary of the case: Darkmatter: District Attorney Ray Gricar Went Missing And So Did His Brother Years Before.

Thank you. i wrote it lol i was told by an anonymous poster on my blog that i had it all wrong. lol

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thank you. i wrote it lol i was told by an anonymous poster on my blog that i had it all wrong. lol

I thought it was a nice job as a summary.

I reread it, and would add a minor point. RFG was seen on video entering and leaving the office at the courthouse on 4/14/05 at 6:21 PM and 9:03 PM, respectively. He was alone and not carrying the laptop. I have been told that he would occasionally work late at the office.

He was walking in the park between 5:30 PM and 6:00 PM with PEF that evening. There are several chronologies here: PA - PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #15

 

[J. J. in Phila]

WTAJ (Altoona) story on the 15th anniversary:

 

[fridaybaker]

New to this case, but here’s a general question. If this was a voluntary disappearance, what would be a reason to do so? He didn’t have a family to support. Any thoughts.

Edited to add: Sorry, ignorant question. Just read about money angle. Carry on.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A not particularly good podcast from April: Ray Gricar - Killin Missin Hidden

 

[J. J. in Phila]

New to this case, but here’s a general question. If this was a voluntary disappearance, what would be a reason to do so? He didn’t have a family to support. Any thoughts.

Edited to add: Sorry, ignorant question. Just read about money angle. Carry on.

One possibility was that he was money overseas from his second divorce. It was finalized of 7/30/01. Six weeks later was 9/11. After that, he would have had trouble getting it back. He, effectively, went to the money.

Also, had he claimed his pension, my understanding is that even if he died just after retirement, there would be much less. By disappearing, he would have been able to leave his heirs more money.

That is ONE explanation, but not the only one.