PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #5

[ThePhantom]

Excellent!! I can't wait to see it!! Thanks for the heads up.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Excellent!! I can't wait to see it!! Thanks for the heads up.

Just read about it this AM. They have not contacted me.

 

[SeekingJana]

Thanks for the advance notice on the program.. Wish it could air sooner. Mr. Gricar has been missing for 5 years now!!

JJ, it's always a pleasure to post with you. This man intrigues me, because he seemed to be a low key private type of man in many aspects, yet he had a high profile career and was well known in PA, at least. And he apparently vanished without a trace
.I know the gist of the matter is- Did he voluntarily leave or did he meet foul play?
If he was murdered, where are the remains?
If he voluntarily disappeared, would any branch of LE be looking for him, here and abroad?

I've never read anything about his personal security habits. Do you happen to know if he was a hand gun owner? If he carried one on his person (except in the court room, of course)? Patty would know, but I've never seen it stated anywhere.
I would think that a DA would be very personal safety conscious, and that he would be less likely to be successfully abducted than say, a young, petite woman.

One thing I've never seen anyone ask or address- What happened in Patty's life after Ray disappeared? Do you have any idea if she moved on, grieved, considers him dead, has a different lifestyle with someone else, new job, or what?

Some were posting that they thought his 2nd wife should be investigated. Is this because their daughter, Lara, was given control of his finances, or for another reason?

Sorry for all the questions. Mr. Gricar's case is in the top 3 unsolved cases I would like to see resolved in my lifetime. What we know transpired, according to LE reports, is so very little.

I have to wonder how much time can be devoted to his disappearance on Discovery because, frankly, more is known about his day to day activities as he allowed the details to be known, that is, than anything else. And, honestly, the details of his ordinary routine are pretty dry and, IMO, not lurid, risky, or that complicated.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This man intrigues me, because he seemed to be a low key private type of man in many aspects, yet he had a high profile career and was well known in PA, at least. And he apparently vanished without a trace

If he walked away, there may have been some traces. There are several witness reports, that LE has called "credible" of RFG on 4/18 and 5/27. With the latter one, if accurate, it would completely rule out foul play or suicide.

There are some things that LE should have looked at but have never publicly say they did.

.I know the gist of the matter is- Did he voluntarily leave or did he meet foul play?
If he was murdered, where are the remains?
If he voluntarily disappeared, would any branch of LE be looking for him, here and abroad?

The are still looking hear and abroad.

I've never read anything about his personal security habits. Do you happen to know if he was a hand gun owner? If he carried one on his person (except in the court room, of course)? Patty would know, but I've never seen it stated anywhere.
I would think that a DA would be very personal safety conscious, and that he would be less likely to be successfully abducted than say, a young, petite woman.

I asked about a weapon several years ago. According to his nephew, RFG did not like guns and did not carry one. He drove a distinctive car with a vanity license plate (PFO), so he wasn't too concerned with security. He also spent a day and a half in Cleveland without even telling his then wife where he was going.

One thing I've never seen anyone ask or address- What happened in Patty's life after Ray disappeared? Do you have any idea if she moved on, grieved, considers him dead, has a different lifestyle with someone else, new job, or what?

She continued to work at the same job until 12/09, when she became a clerk at the DUI court.

Some were posting that they thought his 2nd wife should be investigated. Is this because their daughter, Lara, was given control of his finances, or for another reason?

Wife #1, Barbara Gray, was Lara's mother.

Wife #2, whose name I don't use, stated that they had not spoken since the divorce. My understanding is that the second divorce was not amicable. (That might get the award for understatement of the decade.)

The current district attorney, SPM, has stated that the homicide was the "least likely" possibility, but it hasn't been ruled out. I don't agree, based on the publicly released evidence (or the stuff I know about privately). However, she said that after reading the files.

His closest friend, Sloan, thinks he walked away. Reading between the lines, it looks like a lot of people close to RFG agree.

I did two blogs over the summer on when people close to the case stopped talking to the press and the "chattering class," those of us on the Internet. It is striking that they leave when when some new evidence pops up that points to walk away.

Tony Gricar, the family spokesman, basically stopped talking to the press about two days after the computer searches were released; he has not maintained the website on the disappearance. I last heard from him in 11/09, when he said the website would be up in a day or so.

I've e-mailed him to see if he is the one maintaining the current website, which is just the Wikipedia page, almost a fortnight ago. I never got a response.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Two notes on PEF.

1. While she openly addressed rumors of RFG's infidelity in 12/05, she said nothing of substance after the Fenton sighting was revealed. That sighting of RFG in a different car behind the Courthouse in Bellefonte at 3:00 PM on 4/15/05, of course, pointed to walkaway.

2. Her future plans, as of 4/14/05, was to leave her job when RFG retired. She had switched from being a victim/witness advocate in January of 2005 to a clerk position (which would be more easily filled and is probably not as well paid).

Financially, she was probably had a financial disadvantage by RFG's disappearance.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

More on the Disappeared segment.


http://www.centredaily.com/2010/10/...ent_submitted&qwxq=2332330#Comments_Container

 

[sneezy]

Right now, my old hardrive is sitting in a bucket of gritty, dirty, salty, water. It is not in there because:

A. I'm trying to destroy a record a love child.

B. I'm trying to destroy a record or viewing .

C. I'm trying to destroy a record of travel plans for a plans for a walkaway.

D. I'm trying to destroy a record of where I've hidden money.

E, I'm trying to destroy a record of some criminal activity.

It is in that bucket because I don't someone to get my credit card numbers or my passwords.

That could be the what RFG never wanted the data to ever see see the light of day. Nothing nefarious, no rabid paranoia, just that he didn't want his credit card numbers, financial records, family photographs, or passwords to be ever discovered. I'd call it prudent.

JJ, there is something I'd like to mention. I don't work in Centre Co. but I do work for government..so I thought it might be worth mentioning. Here, EVERYTHING is inventoried and catalogued, including the serial numbers. If Gricar wanted to get rid of the hard drive and replace it, he'd be taking a chance because it could be noticed. I know here they do not even purchase our computers any longer, they're leased (part of the reason they're so picky)

It might be worth looking into how the closely county would have looked at the computer upon it's return.

Also...do we know if Gricar had access to a way to get new documentation? He'd need new birth certificates, drivers license and a passport if he wanted to do too much travelling....

 

[shefner]

I'm really leaning toward the "walked away" theory, at least for the moment. It would take some planning, but we know people have done it before. I wonder if Gricar was ever found, if the public would be made aware of that? I'm thinking that if LE felt they had located him and he had indeed walked away, then that information might never be released.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, there is something I'd like to mention. I don't work in Centre Co. but I do work for government..so I thought it might be worth mentioning. Here, EVERYTHING is inventoried and catalogued, including the serial numbers. If Gricar wanted to get rid of the hard drive and replace it, he'd be taking a chance because it could be noticed. I know here they do not even purchase our computers any longer, they're leased (part of the reason they're so picky)

It might be worth looking into how the closely county would have looked at the computer upon it's return.

That came up a few years ago; the county did not record the serial numbers of the drive. The drive fits the laptop, but they do not have the drive serial numbers. The serial number of the laptop itself was recorded; that was RFG's laptop.

Good question!

Also...do we know if Gricar had access to a way to get new documentation? He'd need new birth certificates, drivers license and a passport if he wanted to do too much travelling....

Known? No, to the best of my knowledge. It is possible, as others have done it, successfully.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm really leaning toward the "walked away" theory, at least for the moment. It would take some planning, but we know people have done it before. I wonder if Gricar was ever found, if the public would be made aware of that? I'm thinking that if LE felt they had located him and he had indeed walked away, then that information might never be released.

Generally, if someone departs voluntarily, they will announce it, but they won't give a location, unless the person agrees. It is perfectly legal to do so in America, unless you are running from the law.

My guess is that they would, at least the current DA would. She has made comments about the county not being able to rest until there is a solution.

If there was ever evidence released that RFG walked away of his own free will, even without finding out where he is, I would likely cease my inquiries; I do not know of any of that type of evidence, even off the record. If it was RFG's choice, and there were no other factors, I'd respect that choice.

 

[shefner]

JJ, I would respect Gricar's choice to walk away but naturally would be curious as to the reasons why he did so. Guess thats part of being a sleuther....always wondering why.....

 

[ThePhantom]

Shefner, I always how people can do it -- just up and leave everything and everyone they know -- but since I started sleuthing years ago, I've been surprsied to see how many people do this -- sometimes it's just for a couple days, sometimes months -- sometimes -- boom, they are gone with no intention of coming back. I guess a person could get so dissatisfied with their life that leaving presents no problem for them. I can't imagine it, personally, but then -- maybe I just don't understand their kind of unhappy

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Shefner, I always how people can do it -- just up and leave everything and everyone they know -- but since I started sleuthing years ago, I've been surprsied to see how many people do this -- sometimes it's just for a couple days, sometimes months -- sometimes -- boom, they are gone with no intention of coming back. I guess a person could get so dissatisfied with their life that leaving presents no problem for them. I can't imagine it, personally, but then -- maybe I just don't understand their kind of unhappy

He didn't have a lot.

1. He was planning to retire in 8.5 months as DA.

2. He was not planning to run for office or practice law (yes, he was giving it up).

3. His daughter was adult, living more than 2,000 away.

4. He owned no real property. He paid her mortgage, but he didn't add his name.

5. His car was in his girlfriend's name.

There was his retirement (which his daughter will get, assuming he doesn't claim it), and about $100,000 in the bank, in both his and his daughter's name. He made over $100,000 in salary for the last seven years.

 

[Gozgals]

Nothing to add, but I don't think he walked after all that was posted over the last 5 years and following the story. (MO)

If he did walk, I respect his right to do so too.

Goz

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I currently give walkaway about a 50/50 chance, and while I've found out a few unreleased things, none of that would change those odds.

Not directly on topic, but the next blog entry will be on the Aardsma case, a 1969 murder case at Penn State's library. One of our posters, Littlehorn, has done some outstanding work on it, along with a journalist and English teacher at Penn State.

It should be up by this time tomorrow.

 

[arielilane]

He didn't have a lot.

1. He was planning to retire in 8.5 months as DA.

2. He was not planning to run for office or practice law (yes, he was giving it up).

3. His daughter was adult, living more than 2,000 away.

4. He owned no real property. He paid her mortgage, but he didn't add his name.

5. His car was in his girlfriend's name.

There was his retirement (which his daughter will get, assuming he doesn't claim it), and about $100,000 in the bank, in both his and his daughter's name. He made over $100,000 in salary for the last seven years.

If he did walk he had it arranged to leave without having any responsibilities.
Wonder if he left with a lot of cash that he had been saving (if he walked) over time?

That list speaks volumes. He had his life in order?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If he did walk he had it arranged to leave without having any responsibilities.
Wonder if he left with a lot of cash that he had been saving (if he walked) over time?

That list speaks volumes. He had his life in order?

I would add two more points to the list.

6. He had, to an extent, cleared up a lot of work (I found that out behind the scene). He normally put in a lot of hours, but I have heard that the pace increased before he disappeared.

7. He had no debt.

Now, he was planning to retire and having join accounts and assets with your heirs is not unusual (I had a similar arrangement with my late father, well before his two decade disability).

His financial affairs were in order, as the old saying goes, but some of that could be retirement plans or estate planning. That would not be conclusive.

LE is reviewing his finances again (a wise move, IMO). A large sum of cash would create problems, as there is a reporting requirement for cash above $10,000, but sheltered assets would be possible. If so, I'd suspect they would be off shore.

Even if it were discovered that RFG was sheltering assets, it would not be conclusive evidence of a deliberate departure.

 

[arielilane]

I would add two more points to the list.

6. He had, to an extent, cleared up a lot of work (I found that out behind the scene). He normally put in a lot of hours, but I have heard that the pace increased before he disappeared.

7. He had no debt.

Now, he was planning to retire and having join accounts and assets with your heirs is not unusual (I had a similar arrangement with my late father, well before his two decade disability).

His financial affairs were in order, as the old saying goes, but some of that could be retirement plans or estate planning. That would not be conclusive.

LE is reviewing his finances again (a wise move, IMO). A large sum of cash would create problems, as there is a reporting requirement for cash above $10,000, but sheltered assets would be possible. If so, I'd suspect they would be off shore.

Even if it were discovered that RFG was sheltering assets, it would not be conclusive evidence of a deliberate departure.

He most likely is aware of the $10K rule and would know how to work around it. He comes across as a perfectionist and one who made sure most everything was taken care of before he walked? ... if he walked. I don't post on this thread much. However, this story is so interesting and I try to stay informed. J.J., your dedication is commended. I hope one day there will be some answers.

 

[shefner]

JJ, mentioning percentages as you did above.....what are your current thoughts about what happened, by percentages please. Thank you....

 

[J. J. in Phila]

First, I have a blog up on the Aardmsa murder. A lot of the work done there was one of the posters here, Littlehorn. That shows two things:

1. The value of researchers.

2. That new evidence can be found, even a 1969 murder case.

JJ, mentioning percentages as you did above.....what are your current thoughts about what happened, by percentages please. Thank you....

My current odds are:

Voluntary Departure (Walkaway): 50% likely.
Victim of Foul Play (Primarily Murder): 41% likely.
Suicide: 8% likely.
Something else: 1% likely.

It is that 41% keeping me up at night. If I'd get an e-mail from LE tonight saying that they checked all the ways out of Lewisburg, and didn't find anything, murder would be well above 50%. My inbox was empty (except for spam).

BTW: One of your earlier entries has inspired a future blog.