PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

[J. J. in Phila]

I agree, of course. Not so certain that he didn't have a way out of Lewisburg. To say that he didn't is to say that he met with foul play there, isn't it?

There are two major ways Mr. Gricar could have gotten out of Lewisburg:

Option #1. He drove himself out.

Option #2. Someone else drove him out.

Under Option #1, RFG would have had to:

1-A. Purchased or rented a car, probably under an assumed name.

1-B. Had a someone, a "helper" purchased or rent a car for him, a straw purchase or rental.

Under Option #2, someone, a "helper," who wouldn't tell the police would have to drive RFG out of Lewisburg.

In the case of 1-A, and 1-B, there would be a document trail. In the case of 1-B and 2, there would be a limited number of people who RFG would trust and who wouldn't tell LE or claim the reward. It would be 25 or less people that could be the helper and perhaps 1-2 have been eliminated.

If, after looking at those people, no helper emerged, and after checking purchases and rentals, no "unknown person" rented a car, I'd be very much inclined to say RFG was murdered.

When I asked: "How does one walk away IN this case?", a more accurate question would have been " How does one walk away FROM this case?"
I was NOT questioning Mr. Gricar's abilities to make a plan and follow it through. I was questioning how people who knew him for many years could provide some quotes which mainly seemed like a shrug... Like THEY have walked away from the case, taking their concern with them.. Apparently, there IS a theory or rumor in Centre County which I was unaware of until I read the comments under the article you posted last. Other people seemed to understand it, whereas I do not.. at all. Would you have a look at the comments ? I will not post a rumor, but it's out there all these years later.

I'm not sure what you mean. If you want to PM me, go ahead. If it is the "Ray is gay" rumor, it's been around for years and largely debunked.

 

[SeekingJana]

I'm not sure what you mean. If you want to PM me, go ahead. If it is the "Ray is gay" rumor, it's been around for years and largely debunked.[/quote]


BBM. J.J., no, nothing like that. Will PM you because when I went back to the article, the comments have been archived or removed.. There were several, but one was quite unusual and the author assumed that others knew what/ who he was referring to. It was the only comment to get the " Like' feature by registered readers.

 

[SeekingJana]

This is such a baffling case, and has elements which I think would appeal to the VIDOCQ Society..
I wish someone could make an inquiry to them... Just saying.

 

[SeekingJana]

It seems that the entire chapter on Ray Gricar( Chapter 3) is online for free.. Found it in a Google search for case info. " The Serial Killer's Apprentice" ( by author James Renner) is the name of the book. Highlights crime and such things in Cleveland, OH history. The author includes a lot of background family info.. It was interesting .

http://books.google.com/books?id=LcLBGdkLI0EC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=%22Ray+Gricar%22+%2B+%22Barbara+Gray%22&source=bl&ots=7-fE31RzxJ&sig=hRWwoFWM_Ii34-tncxlZS_EH6dQ&hl=en&ei=MSExTsyHPIOltwfn4PCEDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=%22Ray%20Gricar%22%20%20%20%22Barbara%20Gray%22&f=false

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This is such a baffling case, and has elements which I think would appeal to the VIDOCQ Society..
I wish someone could make an inquiry to them... Just saying.

Did a blog on it in 2009; I actually have a mutual friend with some of the members.

Yes, I've read the book and have communicated with James Renner.

I am ahead of the curve on this.

 

[SeekingJana]

Did a blog on it in 2009; I actually have a mutual friend with some of the members.

Yes, I've read the book and have communicated with James Renner.

I am ahead of the curve on this.

I know you have followed the case extremely closely. You are to be commended for your dedication.

I, and probably some other posters who read this thread occasionally, have not followed every bit. First of all, I live way out of the area, obviously, so the info is not as readily available. Secondly, illness and other life issues have caused me to be away from WS for many months at the time for several years now.

When I post something on a thread, unless I address a specific poster or quote their post, I am posting something I hope will be helpful or further discussion for all who come upon this thread at some point at read.. I hope MOST people are glad for info they may not have. I think you have made it clear in the post above that this does not apply to you.

Regarding your blog, J.J., it appears to be fragmented now and some posts have a title but the post itself is not accessible. You might want to check that out. Maybe it's a recent development.

<modsnip>

Thanks,
Maria

 

[cloudbuster05]

JJ I know your annoyed right now but do you think you could get annoyed enough to do a researched blog on why was Ray at Raystown Lake the day before he disappeared 4-14-2005? Surly you don't believe he traveled there over a hour long just to relieve stress do you? On a work day to boot. Help us to understand the why do that? TIA:truce:

 

[Kiln Wood]

It seems that the entire chapter on Ray Gricar( Chapter 3) is online for free.. Found it in a Google search for case info. " The Serial Killer's Apprentice" ( by author James Renner) is the name of the book. Highlights crime and such things in Cleveland, OH history. The author includes a lot of background family info.. It was interesting .

http://books.google.com/books?id=LcLBGdkLI0EC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=%22Ray+Gricar%22+%2B+%22Barbara+Gray%22&source=bl&ots=7-fE31RzxJ&sig=hRWwoFWM_Ii34-tncxlZS_EH6dQ&hl=en&ei=MSExTsyHPIOltwfn4PCEDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=%22Ray%20Gricar%22%20%20%20%22Barbara%20Gray%22&f=false

BBM

Does anyone know if this is the same James Renner who is writing a book about the disappearance of Maura Murray in 2004?

Although I follow a fair number of threads on WS, Ray Gricar is the case that keeps me awake many, many nights.....

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BBM

Does anyone know if this is the same James Renner who is writing a book about the disappearance of Maura Murray in 2004?

Although I follow a fair number of threads on WS, Ray Gricar is the case that keeps me awake many, many nights.....

Yes. http://www.amymihaljevic.blogspot.com/

Renner generally does cases with an NE Ohio connection. RFG was from the Cleveland area, so that's why he was interested.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ I know your annoyed right now but do you think you could get annoyed enough to do a researched blog on why was Ray at Raystown Lake the day before he disappeared 4-14-2005? Surly you don't believe he traveled there over a hour long just to relieve stress do you? On a work day to boot. Help us to understand the why do that? TIA:truce:

That requires complete speculation, at this point.

In terms of walkaway, it could have been to meet his connection, a helper. He seemed to annoyed when he returned, so he might have missed the connection.

In terms of suicide, he might have been thinking about it.

In terms of murder, there is a very outside chance that he was being set up and that was the first contact. That is possibly the least likely.

Also, it could be unrelated. RFG did like driving to relieve stress. If his departure was voluntary (walkaway or suicide) that probably would create stress.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BTW: If the post does not appear, try a different browser. They show up with Firefox, but not on some other browsers.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

This case is over 6 years old. It is not a bad idea to review certain topics. To discuss old ideas.

EVERYONE'S thoughts, ideas, and opinions are welcome here.

Knock it off. Stop attacking each other. Stop arguing.

 

[cloudbuster05]

That requires complete speculation, at this point.

In terms of walkaway, it could have been to meet his connection, a helper. He seemed to annoyed when he returned, so he might have missed the connection.

In terms of suicide, he might have been thinking about it.

In terms of murder, there is a very outside chance that he was being set up and that was the first contact. That is possibly the least likely.

Also, it could be unrelated. RFG did like driving to relieve stress. If his departure was voluntary (walkaway or suicide) that probably would create stress.

I went to Raystown Lake last summer as you know and if you get a chance please visit. If you park at the seven points marina you will eventually learn something. Ray meeting someone there is not a big secret there. I think I like your first contact possibility. I have no doubt about that. I do hope you get a chance to go there. I recommend the fishing but by all means please schedule the fishing with a tour guide, pick the best, legendary if you can. You won't be disappointed. After all that was where Ray was the day before he disappeared. Thanks JJ!!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I went to Raystown Lake last summer as you know and if you get a chance please visit. If you park at the seven points marina you will eventually learn something. Ray meeting someone there is not a big secret there. I think I like your first contact possibility. I have no doubt about that. I do hope you get a chance to go there. I recommend the fishing but by all means please schedule the fishing with a tour guide, pick the best, legendary if you can. You won't be disappointed. After all that was where Ray was the day before he disappeared. Thanks JJ!!

And it might just as easily been a pleasure drive on a spring day.

I wish I'd actually have something that would be convincing, even to me.

 

[arielilane]

Earlier Ray Gricar Photo Gallery.

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/07/25/2855614/ray-gricar-photo-gallery.html

 

[arielilane]

BBM

Does anyone know if this is the same James Renner who is writing a book about the disappearance of Maura Murray in 2004?

Although I follow a fair number of threads on WS, Ray Gricar is the case that keeps me awake many, many nights.....

I can understand why the case keeps you up at night.
Mr. Gricar's case is so darn bizarre.

 

[cloudbuster05]

And it might just as easily been a pleasure drive on a spring day.

I wish I'd actually have something that would be convincing, even to me.

If you want something convincing, if you follow my hint book your fishing tour guide with the legendary...... trust me you will know it when you think back to things I've mentioned on another board. If you decide to go one day get a hold of me and I will explain the specifics. The what to do's and the don'ts. Also please stop by the bait shop closest near the marina. Its got some interesting signs that if you remember what I've talked about, well lets just say it will surprise you. At the marina you can rent a houseboat and they do a quiz test that allows you to drive the houseboat. I recommend a week. Your tour guide will pick you up (get the right one hint hint) at the houseboat. You can do day or all night if you like. If I had the money I would gladly help you to do this. My trip was paid for. Why would I like to do this for you? Its simple, you will find the 4-14-2005 will take on a whole new meaning. Thats important to me because you blog on this and researched some of this. You can then make us understand why Ray went there on a work day and possibly why he came back from there NOT stress free but annoyed. Trust me it will make sense if you follow the right hints. See JJ no one, I don't mean here is really listening. If you experienced it then they would have to listen. Im tired of talking and writing and its useless IMO. I don't mean on here.

 

[arielilane]

I am so lost in the sauce...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In case anyone is interested the Disappeared segment on RFG will be run at 3:00 PM, Eastern Time on Investigative Discovery.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I am so lost in the sauce...

RFG was seen on 4/14/05 at Lake Raystown around 11:00-11:30 AM. That is what CB is referring to in her post.