PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

[cloudbuster05]

But we don't know why he looked at that...or even that HE was the one who did it. Anyone with access to the home computer might have done it. If he was going to disappear anyway, why wouldn't he just take the laptop with him and dump it in Idaho or Ireland or whereever he was planning to end up?

I don't think Ray would use that language to begin with. Ray purchased erasure software and logically all he had to do was use it, then turn his laptop in when it was time to. According to the nephew Ray was not computer savy. The words fry and notebook seem to be the language of someone younger than 59. Better yet why didn't he even have it in its case? Carrying it without the case would be difficult. Seems like someone younger without thinking and in a hurry rushed with the laptop minus its case.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Yes, it would seem to me that a veteran prosecutor would be smart enough not to leave a google trail behind if he wanted to disappear.

Remember that there is only the cell phone (with its pings and call record) and the testimony of a person Ray called to let us know anything he was up to on that last day. If he was meeting someone involved in a sensitive case, he might not have told his significant other what he was doing. And why would he destroy the computer, anyway? He was a smart, professional man; if he had sensitive personal information on a computer, it would have been the home one, most likely. And, as cloudbuster points out, he had erasure software.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The "case related" aspect of the laptop has two problems:

1. RFG rarely used the laptop, except at conferences. He was not known to use it for cases.

2. Except for RFG, no one could be sure what information was on the laptop or if it was exclusively on the laptop.

If someone other than RFG wanted to destroy some information on the laptop, that person could not be sure if RFG had not transferred it to his home or office computer, or if he had downloaded it to a CD or a flash drive.

Likewise, if some other person was looking for specific information, that person couldn't be sure that RFG ever put it on his laptop.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

And why would he destroy the computer, anyway? He was a smart, professional man; if he had sensitive personal information on a computer, it would have been the home one, most likely. And, as cloudbuster points out, he had erasure software.

The home computer was relatively new, purchased around 12/04 or 1/05. RFG had been asking people about destroying the computer before that. A second point would have been that he wouldn't be returning his home computer at the end of 2005.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Huh! I had never heard one scintilla of this theory.. Very intriguing. Thank you.

I did a series on the Luna case and compared it with the Gricar case in December of 2009, around the 6th anniversary of Mr. Luna's death. There were about 10 major differences in the MO of each case, assuming each was murder.

Further, neither of their jurisdictions overlapped and as best as I could determine, they didn't know each other.

 

[shefner]

I have to wonder if we will ever know the answer to this mystery. Hopefully, if foul play was involved, someone will eventually give some information to help solve the case.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I have to wonder if we will ever know the answer to this mystery. Hopefully, if foul play was involved, someone will eventually give some information to help solve the case.

I think we could, even by process of elimination. The reason suicide is unlikely is because there is almost no evidence for it, and there is a great deal against it. We could eventually see that with foul play or walkaway.

 

[cloudbuster05]

The home computer was relatively new, purchased around 12/04 or 1/05. RFG had been asking people about destroying the computer before that. A second point would have been that he wouldn't be returning his home computer at the end of 2005.

Ray NEVER asked anyone how to destroy his laptop. Ray asked how to ERASE his laptop. Huge difference.

 

[cloudbuster05]

I did a series on the Luna case and compared it with the Gricar case in December of 2009, around the 6th anniversary of Mr. Luna's death. There were about 10 major differences in the MO of each case, assuming each was murder.

Further, neither of their jurisdictions overlapped and as best as I could determine, they didn't know each other.

Both cases involved Heroin busts prior to disappearance, that's plenty enough to compare each to the other. The MO would be different because drug running involves many different connected people in a network. Call it Drug Incorporated. Ray after all started the drug investigation. Drug busts are like a tupperware party, you book a party from a party. The first party might start in Pittsburgh and end up in State College or Lancaster. Just take a look along the Mexico border, all them killings are from a network of drug runners and yea their MO is all different.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Does anyone know if he had recently, or ever, read Exit The Rainmaker? When I first heard of this case it reminded me of that book, I'm not sure if it's ok to post this link or not, so admin / mods please feel free to strike it if it is a no no.
Amazon.com: Exit the Rainmaker (9780967351407)

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ray NEVER asked anyone how to destroy his laptop. Ray asked how to ERASE his laptop. Huge difference.

He searched how to destroy the laptop itself and asked about how to get rid of the data. Again, that is not strange considering he'd be returning the laptop.

As for the heroin arrests, Luna's defendants were in jail when he died and he had offered them a favorable plea agreement. Neither RFG nor the Centre County DA's Office were prosecuting the case. RFG's "involvement" consisted of showing up at a press conference.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Does anyone know if he had recently, or ever, read Exit The Rainmaker? When I first heard of this case it reminded me of that book, I'm not sure if it's ok to post this link or not, so admin / mods please feel free to strike it if it is a no no.
Amazon.com: Exit the Rainmaker (9780967351407): Jonathan Coleman: Books

Not that I know of. IIRC, it came out in 1989. About that time, he was reading the Wambaugh book on the Upper Merion Jay Smith case, Echoes in the Darkness.

He did read 20/20 Vision, a sci-fi book based loosely on the Betsy Aardsma murder in 1969. Part of the plot involved a person faking his own death. The date of the action in the book was 4/15, over several different years.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The MOs and even the perpetrators would not have to be the same. Nor would Luna and Gricar have to be connected or their cases connected.

Drug cartels and gangs could "hit" such officials simply in retaliation for prosecuting drug cases or mid- or high-level dealers OR to stop a specific case underway from proceeding. This kind of assassination is common in Mexico and Central American countries; the gangs that work with those cartels are also in the U.S. The goal is not to punish the specific government officials but to undermine and corrupt the government will to pursue and prosecute by creating fear and terror.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The MOs and even the perpetrators would not have to be the same. Nor would Luna and Gricar have to be connected or their cases connected.

Drug cartels and gangs could "hit" such officials simply in retaliation for prosecuting drug cases or mid- or high-level dealers OR to stop a specific case underway from proceeding. This kind of assassination is common in Mexico and Central American countries; the gangs that work with those cartels are also in the U.S. The goal is not to punish the specific government officials but to undermine and corrupt the government will to pursue and prosecute by creating fear and terror.

But not in Central Pennsylvania.

The idea that RFG was followed for 50 miles, and then let him walk around Lewisburg for five hours is exceptionally unlikely. That can be coupled with the fact that RFG would have probably spotted anyone following him for that amount of time.

The idea that a drug gang would just happen to be in Lewisburg and spotted RFG, who was not dressed in a suit, is even less likely. Further, if anybody wanted to "send a message" why the the lack of a body?

 

[cloudbuster05]

But not in Central Pennsylvania.

The idea that RFG was followed for 50 miles, and then let him walk around Lewisburg for five hours is exceptionally unlikely. That can be coupled with the fact that RFG would have probably spotted anyone following him for that amount of time.

The idea that a drug gang would just happen to be in Lewisburg and spotted RFG, who was not dressed in a suit, is even less likely. Further, if anybody wanted to "send a message" why the the lack of a body?

There's no proof Ray was even in Lewisburg. Nobody actually even knew RG to identify him. Just because his car is there and later on the laptop, does not mean Ray was there. I know you will say that the witnesses identified him but they didn't know him. I believe the dogs more than the people. The dogs never got a hit other than around the car itself. Lewisburg may be a staged planted area.

 

[cloudbuster05]

But not in Central Pennsylvania.

The idea that RFG was followed for 50 miles, and then let him walk around Lewisburg for five hours is exceptionally unlikely. That can be coupled with the fact that RFG would have probably spotted anyone following him for that amount of time.

The idea that a drug gang would just happen to be in Lewisburg and spotted RFG, who was not dressed in a suit, is even less likely. Further, if anybody wanted to "send a message" why the the lack of a body?

One person from the drug bust lived one block away from the mini cooper. You also had operation Sunburst Phase 2 going on in Lewisburg at the time. If someones was sending a message they did that with or without a body.

 

[cloudbuster05]

He searched how to destroy the laptop itself and asked about how to get rid of the data. Again, that is not strange considering he'd be returning the laptop.

As for the heroin arrests, Luna's defendants were in jail when he died and he had offered them a favorable plea agreement. Neither RFG nor the Centre County DA's Office were prosecuting the case. RFG's "involvement" consisted of showing up at a press conference.

You forget if it wasn't for Ray they would have still been in business. Ray did the press conference to send out his own message that drugs would not be tolerated in his area.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There's no proof Ray was even in Lewisburg. Nobody actually even knew RG to identify him. Just because his car is there and later on the laptop, does not mean Ray was there. I know you will say that the witnesses identified him but they didn't know him. I believe the dogs more than the people. The dogs never got a hit other than around the car itself. Lewisburg may be a staged planted area.

Sorry, but there is just too much evidence that he was in Lewisburg, as well evidence he was on his way to Lewisburg. We're in to double digits. not to mention the rest of the evidence.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You forget if it wasn't for Ray they would have still been in business. Ray did the press conference to send out his own message that drugs would not be tolerated in his area.

RFG had no roll in that string of arrests. It was the state AG's Office, with Corbett and Madeira.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

One person from the drug bust lived one block away from the mini cooper.

And, that person was in jail on 4/15, correct?