PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

[ladyheartfixer]

He searched how to destroy the laptop itself and asked about how to get rid of the data. Again, that is not strange considering he'd be returning the laptop.

As for the heroin arrests, Luna's defendants were in jail when he died and he had offered them a favorable plea agreement. Neither RFG nor the Centre County DA's Office were prosecuting the case. RFG's "involvement" consisted of showing up at a press conference.

but if you read the book, the defendants corrupt police guardians were not in jail and Luna was aware of them and the role in the "revolving door " that they played...what better bait than a call from police to lure him out into the open?

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I am not convinced that Gricar ever was in Lewisburg. Certainly, his car ended up there, but I am not a great believer in the sort of eyewitness testimony that comes from people who are not intimates or close friends, when it comes to "sightings" of people who are later reported missing. (I always think of how often I thought a smallish white-haired lady in the mall was my mother, but stopped just short of making a total fool of myself.) Even cell phone records, if we had them, would only tell us that someone used the phone or called it (or that the phone "dialed" accidently as a result of some contact with speed-dial). It wouldn't mean that Gricar used the phone. Or drove the car to Lewisburg. Or did those google searches about destroying laptops. Dumping a car in a parking lot is a TYPICAL act of people who murder others and want to provide a distraction for LE or delay peoples' awareness that someone was missing. If he did drive to Lewisburg, he could have gone there to see someone either in his personal life or professional life and as a result met with foul play. The fact that a body has never been found suggests strongly that he was murdered.

There would have been NO reason for Gricar not to wait for his pension or to fail to take his assets with him, if he had decided to "walk away," even if he had considerable money stashed elsewhere, which I doubt. It seems far more likely that he was either killed by someone who knew him well and who, to some extent, staged a disappearance, or that he met someone or a group of people (perhaps even parked his own car and got into another car) --a person or persons who then killed him.

 

[cloudbuster05]

And, that person was in jail on 4/15, correct?

JJ where the cell phone pinged was another area that another drug busted person resided and she was not in jail. At the time it was being considered who they wanted to offer a deal to testify against the others. Did Ray pick her? Thats something to consider.

 

[cloudbuster05]

but if you read the book, the defendants corrupt police guardians were not in jail and Luna was aware of them and the role in the "revolving door " that they played...what better bait than a call from police to lure him out into the open?

I read some of that book but that copy was not mine and it was returned. Now I must buy it and read it after reading your post. Thanks!!

 

[cloudbuster05]

RFG had no roll in that string of arrests. It was the state AG's Office, with Corbett and Madeira.

You can't deny Rays involvement, Ray doing the press conference speaks volumes of his involvement. It don't matter who prosecuted it, the fact remains that Ray had started what shut down a million dollar business.

If you had a illegal business that was very profitable and I went and snitched on it, who would you be angry with? If it was my doing that brought down the heat to shut you down, how would that really make you feel? A loss of a million dollars is nothing to sneeze at. It has to be considered.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Sorry, but there is just too much evidence that he was in Lewisburg, as well evidence he was on his way to Lewisburg. We're in to double digits. not to mention the rest of the evidence.

The only evidence was the call that pinged off the tower in the Centre Hall area. Other than that the dogs got no hit that Ray was in the SOS or park area. The dogs hit the scent around the car area. None of the witnesses knew what Ray looked like, not one. Look at how many other people reported that they saw Ray only to find out that it was not him. Find me one person in Lewisburg that really knew the DA to identify him and I will then believe it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I am not convinced that Gricar ever was in Lewisburg. Certainly, his car ended up there, but I am not a great believer in the sort of eyewitness testimony that comes from people who are not intimates or close friends, when it comes to "sightings" of people who are later reported missing. (I always think of how often I thought a smallish white-haired lady in the mall was my mother, but stopped just short of making a total fool of myself.) Even cell phone records, if we had them, would only tell us that someone used the phone or called it (or that the phone "dialed" accidently as a result of some contact with speed-dial). It wouldn't mean that Gricar used the phone. Or drove the car to Lewisburg. Or did those google searches about destroying laptops. Dumping a car in a parking lot is a TYPICAL act of people who murder others and want to provide a distraction for LE or delay peoples' awareness that someone was missing. If he did drive to Lewisburg, he could have gone there to see someone either in his personal life or professional life and as a result met with foul play. The fact that a body has never been found suggests strongly that he was murdered.

I'm sorry, but there is significant evidence that RFG was the person seen. The searches were done prior to 4/15, from what I've gathered. He googled a map to Lewisburg prior to 4/15. The idea that someone else could have done that is very unlikely.

There are 10 witnesses, that have been revealed, that saw RFG on 4/15. They all fit the timeline and didn't even know of the existence of the others.

PEF received the call. There is a record of the call. She passed the polygraph on the call. That witness number 11.

Aside from these witnesses, and the car, a bloodhound detected the scent of RFG in the parking lot.

That is a significant amount of evidence that RFG was there.

There would have been NO reason for Gricar not to wait for his pension or to fail to take his assets with him, if he had decided to "walk away," even if he had considerable money stashed elsewhere, which I doubt.

Money is but one possible reason.

Here are some other possible reasons.

1. He was worried about someone he prosecuted tracking him down one day, and decided to vanish.

2. He wanted to become a "legend," similar to Mel Wiley. Vanishing would prove his superiority. (If that was the reason, he was quite successful.)

3. He was ultimately planning to commit suicide, but wanted to follow a "bucket list" of things first.

There are number of reasons, possibly several, why RFG might have left voluntarily.

The problem with statements like "there was NO reason," is that requires trying to enter into RFG's mind. That, along with these other reasons, requires this mind reading. As RFG once said in court, "Motive, your Honor, is something we never have to prove."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You can't deny Rays involvement, Ray doing the press conference speaks volumes of his involvement. It don't matter who prosecuted it, the fact remains that Ray had started what shut down a million dollar business.

RFG wasn't; it was the AG's Office.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The only evidence was the call that pinged off the tower in the Centre Hall area. Other than that the dogs got no hit that Ray was in the SOS or park area. The dogs hit the scent around the car area. None of the witnesses knew what Ray looked like, not one. Look at how many other people reported that they saw Ray only to find out that it was not him. Find me one person in Lewisburg that really knew the DA to identify him and I will then believe it.

Witnesses also put him in the parking lot, where his scent was found and where witnesses saw him. A witness also saw him approaching the lot (McKnight's witness).

 

[ThePhantom]

I'm still leaning towards him walking away. It's possible if he committed suicide his remains are hidden in the Susquehana, but it seems his body would have surfaced by now. He is young enough looking and smart enough to make a living anywhere. Did he have a passport and was it missing? Maybe he just got sick of his life as it was, realized time was moving only in one direction and decided to look for something different. It's much easier to do this on your own, because no one would understand and many would feel terribly hurt. How deeply was he tied to the people in his life? How deeply was he tied to his life at all? If he seemed down, maybe he just wanted out. People have done it, they still do it -- it's not common, but it is done. It's easier to believe he is dead or was murdered because no one ever thinks someone would just walk away.

 

[ThePhantom]

I'm still leaning towards him walking away. It's possible if he committed suicide his remains are hidden in the Susquehana, but it seems his body would have surfaced by now. He is young enough looking and smart enough to make a living anywhere. Did he have a passport and was it missing? Maybe he just got sick of his life as it was, realized time was moving only in one direction and decided to look for something different. It's much easier to do this on your own, because no one would understand and many would feel terribly hurt. How deeply was he tied to the people in his life? How deeply was he tied to his life at all? If he seemed down, maybe he just wanted out. People have done it, they still do it -- it's not common, but it is done. It's easier to believe he is dead or was murdered because no one ever thinks someone would just walk away.

ps is it common to close a case that isn't solved?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

RFG had a passport, and traveled out of the country previously. The passport was unused. At the time, a passport was not needed to enter Canada, however.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

.

ps is it common to close a case that isn't solved?

The Patrick Rust case in NY was "administratively closed," even after the body was found. They could not determine the cause of death.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I'm sorry, but there is significant evidence that RFG was the person seen. The searches were done prior to 4/15, from what I've gathered. He googled a map to Lewisburg prior to 4/15. The idea that someone else could have done that is very unlikely.

There are 10 witnesses, that have been revealed, that saw RFG on 4/15. They all fit the timeline and didn't even know of the existence of the others.

PEF received the call. There is a record of the call. She passed the polygraph on the call. That witness number 11.

Aside from these witnesses, and the car, a bloodhound detected the scent of RFG in the parking
lot.

That is a significant amount of evidence that RFG was there.

Money is but one possible reason.

Here are some other possible reasons.

1. He was worried about someone he prosecuted tracking him down one day, and decided to
vanish.

2. He wanted to become a "legend," similar to Mel Wiley. Vanishing would prove his
superiority. (If that was the reason, he was quite successful.)

3. He was ultimately planning to commit suicide, but wanted to follow a
"bucket list" of things first.

There are number of reasons, possibly several, why RFG might have left voluntarily

The problem with statements like "there was NO reason," is that requires trying to enter into
RFG's mind. That, along with these other reasons, requires this mind reading. As RFG once said in court, "Motive, your Honor, is something we never have to prove."

#2 and #3 on your list (the bucket list and getting famous notion) are about as deep into mind-reading as anyone could be. However, have no problem entering RG's mind long enoigh to say that there is nothing is his life that would suggest he would walk away from all of his commitments and responsibilities. (And while we're at it, the walkaway proponents are so deep in Gricar's brain they have forgotten to look at the man's life up to that point in favor of rank
speculation about whether he had somehow managed to squirrel away enough money on a public salary to make up for walking away from an actual pension and Social Security.) The website written by his colleague (which was linked above last week) makes a strong argument that he wasn't a guy who would do that.

If you know that he had reason to be so afraid of something that he would walk away from EVERYTHING, including his life savings, retirement, all possessions, including the car he was
driving, his girlfriend and his daughter, then it is far more likely that this horrendous thing he
was afraid of caused his death. We haven't seen any indication of official malfeasance, the one reason a proud professional might walk away. He had divorced before, so breaking up with a
girlfriend--that would be easy. So I see ZERO reason for walkaway. Normally, if a man in his position disappeared, his car left abandoned, his laptop destroyed, everyone and his uncle
would say foul play. That people atill have this walkaway scenarion going boggles my mind.

The most likely reason for his disappearance was that he was either killed by a professional
enemy (e.g., criminal) or a personal one. He could have been killed or injured somewhere else, transported to Lewisburg, moved to another vehicle (accounting for dogs scenting him in
parking lot only) and then his body dumped or buried. Or he could have gotten into a car in Lewisburg for some meeting, personal or professional, and then things went wrong from there.

The walkaway scenario does sell papers and provide fodder for discussion. But it doesn't make
logical sense. That LE has embraced the "three equally likely scenarios" explanation also boggles the mind. The whole point of LE is to test out the sceanrios and eliminate them. That they cannot do so in the case of a prosecutor smells to high heaven.i

 

[J. J. in Phila]

#2 and #3 on your list (the bucket list and getting famous notion) are about as deep into mind-reading as anyone could be. However, have no problem entering RG's mind long enoigh to say that there is nothing is his life that would suggest he would walk away from all of his commitments and responsibilities. (And while we're at it, the walkaway proponents are so deep in Gricar's brain they have forgotten to look at the man's life up to that point in favor of rank
speculation about whether he had somehow managed to squirrel away enough money on a public salary to make up for walking away from an actual pension and Social Security.) The website written by his colleague (which was linked above last week) makes a strong argument that he wasn't a guy who would do that.

First of all, you raised the motive question. All of it requires mind reading. I can think of at least four.

As for his colleagues, his close college and close friend, Steve Sloan said in print that he thought RFG was alive. They were beyond co-workers.

As for the money, we know what RFG's public salary was, can make a conservative estimate after taxes, and we know that his expenses were low. We know that doesn't match what was left. That raises raises questions.

If you know that he had reason to be so afraid of something that he would walk away from EVERYTHING, including his life savings, retirement, all possessions, including the car he was
driving, his girlfriend and his daughter, then it is far more likely that this horrendous thing he
was afraid of caused his death. We haven't seen any indication of official malfeasance, the one reason a proud professional might walk away. He had divorced before, so breaking up with a
girlfriend--that would be easy.

Again, in 8 1/2 RFG was not going to be in a profession. He was not only retiring from DA, but from the practice of law. As noted, we don't know if he had a substantial amount of money out there or not. He had no legal commitment to his girlfriend and his daughter had lived more 2000 miles away. Further, the two were not in the same household for more than a decade prior to his disappearance.

So I see ZERO reason for walkaway. Normally, if a man in his position disappeared, his car left abandoned, his laptop destroyed, everyone and his uncle
would say foul play. That people atill have this walkaway scenarion going boggles my mind.

There are possible reasons, you just don't like them. That is not the same as saying "ZERO reason."

As to wondering, you better wonder about RFG himself. He was interested in a case, the Mel Wiley case, that was a voluntary disappearance. It happened in Ohio, five years after RFG moved to Centre County.

The most likely reason for his disappearance was that he was either killed by a professional
enemy (e.g., criminal) or a personal one. He could have been killed or injured somewhere else, transported to Lewisburg, moved to another vehicle (accounting for dogs scenting him in
parking lot only) and then his body dumped or buried.

And what about the witnesses, including a police officer, who saw him after 4/15/05?

Or he could have gotten into a car in Lewisburg for some meeting, personal or professional, and then things went wrong from there.

Yes, that is a possibility. It would be unlikely for this be something professional; he was in a parking lot 50 miles from home.

The walkaway scenario does sell papers and provide fodder for discussion.

Actually, it doesn't. Most of the public already thinks he walked away, so the interest wanes.

But it doesn't make
logical sense. That LE has embraced the "three equally likely scenarios" explanation also boggles the mind. The whole point of LE is to test out the sceanrios and eliminate them. That they cannot do so in the case of a prosecutor smells to high heaven.i

It does make logical sense. I would say that suicide is not very likely.

 

[ThePhantom]

Some criminals are smart, but most are stupid. Mr. Gricar is a smart man, I think he could smell a rat if one was trying to set him up. It looks like just maybe -- he was sick of everything and got out. He would not be the first. He seems like a nice person, but maybe he got to that point where he felt he had to salvage his life, so to speak. Not that he had a bad life, in fact, it looked very pleasant. But, he knew retirement was fast approaching, and maybe he didn't like what he saw coming after that (?) So he exited stage right in the smoothest way possible (for him). What do you do when you no longer find joy in the way you've been living and feel desperate for something to change --

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Why would someone approaching retirement, with a pension put away, and Social Security at a nice level in his future, walk away from that? If he got tired of his job, he was retiring. He was not in a legally binding relationship or burdened by a large family. He was not in some giant financial or professional mess. So he was interested in a mysterious disappearance. So are all of us, as evidenced by this board. Many of us are also interested in disappearances that aren't voluntary, but we wouldn't want to have that kind of thing destroy our lives. If anything, his awareness of that case might also make him aware of the pain and suffering such an action leaves behind. If his money had disappeared with him, or if he had made some provisions for his daughter, I might buy that.

As to what friends and family might say, surely it is understandable that they would prefer to
think RG is alive. Many people hold out hope that those who are missing will come back some day. Moreover, some people who publically hold out that hope are actually responsible for the disappearance. I saw a case on TV last week in which a woman killed her spouse, buried him in the yard, and claimed he abandoned her--walked away --as have any number of men who murdered wives and claimed they ran off with other men or just abandoned their kids.

Let's just say that at some point, the fun of staging a disappearance would fade when he comes
to need hospital care or a nursing home someday and has no way to prove he is eligible for medicare or Social Security. Only a stupid man would pull such a stunt. Retirement by its nature opens up a chance to "walkaway." All he needed to do is retire, and then pack his car and go. Lots of people cut ties with family and friends; it's a big country. And there are planes to Europe and lots of expats in warm climates like Costa Rica. A person on the verge of
retirement could walk away without hurting his child, his friends, and his reputation.

On the other hand, a man's car is found in a parking lot, his laptop destroyed, and he appears to have disappeared. 99 times out of 100--foul play.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Why would someone approaching retirement, with a pension put away, and Social Security at a nice level in his future, walk away from that?

That is fairly easy. His daughter gets the pension, valued at more than $300,000. There would also be some tax benefits.

So he was interested in a mysterious disappearance. So are all of us, as evidenced by this board. Many of us are also interested in disappearances that aren't voluntary, but we wouldn't want to have that kind of thing destroy our lives. If anything, his awareness of that case might also make him aware of the pain and suffering such an action leaves behind. If his money had disappeared with him, or if he had made some provisions for his daughter, I might buy that.

Oh, really? I use to live in central (and western) PA and went to Penn State. I started posting on the case about a year later; I would have started earlier, but this site wouldn't accept my e-mail address. RFG was talking about the Wiley case no less than 7 1/2 years afterward, when it was clearly a walkaway case. He lived in Ohio, but moved to PA 5 years before it happened.

As to what friends and family might say, surely it is understandable that they would prefer to
think RG is alive. Many people hold out hope that those who are missing will come back some day.

This is his best friend and a coworker. Further, I've communicated with Sloan, and have talked to people that have as well; his comments are quite real.

Let's just say that at some point, the fun of staging a disappearance would fade when he comes
to need hospital care or a nursing home someday and has no way to prove he is eligible for medicare or Social Security. Only a stupid man would pull such a stunt. Retirement by its nature opens up a chance to "walkaway."

If he had to, he could always identify himself; his ID could still be with him.

All he needed to do is retire, and then pack his car and go. Lots of people cut ties with family and friends; it's a big country. And there are planes to Europe and lots of expats in warm climates like Costa Rica. A person on the verge of
retirement could walk away without hurting his child, his friends, and his reputation.

If he walked away, isn't that what he did? Exactly?

Why would, in his circumstances even care about his reputation? He was not planning to run for office. He was not planning to practice law. And if he just said "goodbye" nobody would have ever heard of Ray Gricar.

On the other hand, a man's car is found in a parking lot, his laptop destroyed, and he appears to have disappeared. 99 times out of 100--foul play.

Absolutely no evidence of foul play. No blood in the car. No broken sunglasses or smashed cell phone. No damage to the car. No known witnesses seeing him being hustled into a car. No evidence that anyone else drove the Mini. No body.

The drive from the laptop carefully removed. The place of the disappearance not remote and with a lot of foot traffic. Not a good place to commit a murder.

 

[Kiln Wood]

That is fairly easy. His daughter gets the pension, valued at more than $300,000. There would also be some tax benefits.




Oh, really? I use to live in central (and western) PA and went to Penn State. I started posting on the case about a year later; I would have started earlier, but this site wouldn't accept my e-mail address. RFG was talking about the Wiley case no less than 7 1/2 years afterward, when it was clearly a walkaway case. He lived in Ohio, but moved to PA 5 years before it happened.



This is his best friend and a coworker. Further, I've communicated with Sloan, and have talked to people that have as well; his comments are quite real.



If he had to, he could always identify himself; his ID could still be with him.



If he walked away, isn't that what he did? Exactly?

Why would, in his circumstances even care about his reputation? He was not planning to run for office. He was not planning to practice law. And if he just said "goodbye" nobody would have ever heard of Ray Gricar.




Absolutely no evidence of foul play. No blood in the car. No broken sunglasses or smashed cell phone. No damage to the car. No known witnesses seeing him being hustled into a car. No evidence that anyone else drove the Mini. No body.

The drive from the laptop carefully removed. The place of the disappearance not remote and with a lot of foot traffic. Not a good place to commit a murder.

BBM

JJ, what is the story about the interior of the Mini smelling of tobacco smoke? Is there any truth to that story? Did RG have a friend or friends who smoked? Do you know anything about any friends who may have smoked?

Thank you for another great post!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BBM

JJ, what is the story about the interior of the Mini smelling of tobacco smoke? Is there any truth to that story? Did RG have a friend or friends who smoked? Do you know anything about any friends who may have smoked?

Thank you for another great post!

Yes. When LE first opened the door, they smelled smoke. On the passenger side, there was a trace about of ask on the floor. It was like a tiny piece that fell off, not like someone flicked an ask.

One old girlfriend, who resembled the general description of the Mystery Woman, was known to be a smoker; that was the "Harrisburg Woman." She supposedly visiting friends on Long Island at the time. I do think that LE should recheck that.

Here is the kicker. On 4/18/05, two people are positive that they saw RFG in a restaurant/bar, possibly a Bennigan's, in Wilkes Barre. The guy was wearing a suit and talked about his favorite ball team, the Indians. He was smoking. (They are sure it was him; I'm not sure, but I think it about 70% likely.)

One of the witnesses was the bartender; the other was a police officer from SE Pennsylvania. The officer, who was something beyond an ordinary patrolman, talked with him for about 5 minutes, just about sports. He noticed something. The guy was not an experienced smoker; he was holding the cigarette clumsily, according to the officer.

Both witnesses had no contact with each other; the officer say the story on the news a few days later, recognized RFG, and called LE. LE kept a lid on the story that it was a cop until 2008.