PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

[Kiln Wood]

JJ in Phila I was about to post the New York Times article, but you beat me to it. Usher, your post states my thoughts, exactly. When I rea that grand jury report and saw Ray Gricar's name I had that aha! moment as to a possible link yo Gricar's disappearance. Sure, the in estigatots looked at cases he prosecuted thinking someone came back for revenge. But very few LE investigators would think to look at cases he investigated but did NOT prosecute. And, Usher, I agree and previously said that maybe Gricar had been hushed, but had additional info come to him that made it clear he would have no choice but to prosecute. In theory only, of course, perhaps Gricar conveyed that he would have to move forward to press charges. He then was lured to a meeting, maybe under false pretenses, and the professional hit was done. I know to some it sounds far-fetched, but it just seems too strange that Gricar had investigated this case, and then, some years later, he goes missing. JMO

BBM

Kateyes and JJ (because you're "The RG Guru" in my book), how farfetched and strange would it be if there is another case "he investigated but did NOT prosecute," that would link RG, GS, and someone unknown to us here (I'm thinking of a triangle)?

I believe this post of mine is a peculiar type of craziness that comes from too much activity in too few hours, but my question is one that crossed my mind when I read your post, Kateyes.....

Thank you for inspiring some "late night madness!"

 

[J. J. in Phila]

hey JJ what's your angle?

I'd say about 160-170 degrees when typing on the computer.

(Sorry, but I needed a little levity, after reading through the charges.)

I'm not really sure what you mean by "my angle." Why I'm interested in the Gricar case is here: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/02/...erested-in-the-gricar.html#storylink=misearch

Over the last four days my very favorable opinion of RFG, as a public servant, has nosedived.

If you are asking me about my opinion of what happened to RFG, it is:

Voluntary Departure (including fleeing): 52%
Foul Play: 43%
Suicide: 4%
Other: 1%

It has not changed because of this.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BBM

Kateyes and JJ (because you're "The RG Guru" in my book), how farfetched and strange would it be if there is another case "he investigated but did NOT prosecute," that would link RG, GS, and someone unknown to us here (I'm thinking of a triangle)?

I believe this post of mine is a peculiar type of craziness that comes from too much activity in too few hours, but my question is one that crossed my mind when I read your post, Kateyes.....

Thank you for inspiring some "late night madness!"

Four days ago, I would have said that RFG would have never "not prosecuted" a legitimate case, even if he thought he might not win it. I would not say that today.

Today, I wonder if there are other "not prosecuted" cases out there and the reasons why the Sandusky case (and possibly others) were not prosecuted. Could that reason have been the purpose of the trip to Lewisburg?

I am shocked, and saddened, by the Sandusky situation, and especially by RFG's involvement with it.

 

[Snarky247]

This morning, listening to ESPN radio was the first time I realized the RG connection to the Penn State horror (I spent the last few days celebrating my birthday & enjoying my kids so I missed the majority of the breaking news). Mike & Mike were explaining that the DA originally decided not to prosecute and then he went missing, so I immediately burst out "Ray! They're talking about Ray Gricar!" My spouse looked at me with a strange look & I said "What?" His response - "Don't tell me - he's an old boyfriend of yours."
My response? "Honey, come on...how do you NOT know who Ray Gricar is?" Then I remembered - he's one of those strange people who doesn't follow true crime

Just wanted to share a moment of levity in an ugly & sad situation

 

[Sharyne]

Four days ago, I would have said that RFG would have never "not prosecuted" a legitimate case, even if he thought he might not win it. I would not say that today.

Today, I wonder if there are other "not prosecuted" cases out there and the reasons why the Sandusky case (and possibly others) were not prosecuted. Could that reason have been the purpose of the trip to Lewisburg?

I am shocked, and saddened, by the Sandusky situation, and especially by RFG's involvement with it.

I don't believe I have ever posted here about Ray Gricar, but have been reading about him for a few years. I saw recently here or on another forum that there might possibly be a connection to J Luna. I followed his case for several years until I could find nothing new. I will never believe he stabbed himself to death...but could that long rambling drive he took have been someone trying to convince him to drop a case that may have had connections to this also? I remember you, JJ, also being on another forum discussing it with us way back when.

I have very much enjoyed your posts and others here as well.

So sad, when someone a person believes in wholeheartedly either changed or looks like he did from the good to the ??? questionable...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't believe I have ever posted here about Ray Gricar, but have been reading about him for a few years. I saw recently here or on another forum that there might possibly be a connection to J Luna. I followed his case for several years until I could find nothing new. I will never believe he stabbed himself to death...but could that long rambling drive he took have been someone trying to convince him to drop a case that may have had connections to this also? I remember you, JJ, also being on another forum discussing it with us way back when.

I have very much enjoyed your posts and others here as well.

So sad, when someone a person believes in wholeheartedly either changed or looks like he did from the good to the ??? questionable...

The Luna case, and lack of connection was previously discussed on this thread.

A blog looking at the lack of connection is here: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/12/06/2396337/the-other-prosecutor-part-2-parallels.html

 

[cloudbuster05]

Nothing was leaked and why would he bribed in 2005 about something he wouldn't prosecute in 1998?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/s...xual-abuse-inquiry.html?pagewanted=2&src=recg

Gerald Lauro investigated the 1998 allegation for child protective services. He said he did not find enough evidence of sexual assault to determine that the charge was founded. “I did my investigation and I based my determination on all the available evidence,” he said.

Noonan, a former chief investigator at the attorney general’s office, said the methods Sandusky was suspected of using were common in these types of investigations. He said it was known as “grooming” victims, in which an adult identifies a child, becomes a mentor, gives him gifts and establishes trust.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/sp...ted=2&src=recg

Sorry but it appears there was not enough evidence for Ray to prosecute period. Now come 2005 did something new arise? I dunno.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Four days ago, I would have said that RFG would have never "not prosecuted" a legitimate case, even if he thought he might not win it. I would not say that today.

Today, I wonder if there are other "not prosecuted" cases out there and the reasons why the Sandusky case (and possibly others) were not prosecuted. Could that reason have been the purpose of the trip to Lewisburg?

I am shocked, and saddened, by the Sandusky situation, and especially by RFG's involvement with it.

Gerald Lauro investigated the 1998 allegation for child protective services. He said he did not find enough evidence of sexual assault to determine that the charge was founded. “I did my investigation and I based my determination on all the available evidence,” he said.

Noonan, a former chief investigator at the attorney general’s office, said the methods Sandusky was suspected of using were common in these types of investigations. He said it was known as “grooming” victims, in which an adult identifies a child, becomes a mentor, gives him gifts and establishes trust.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/sp...ted=2&src=recg

Ray's involvement was the lack of evidence to prosecute so please get happy again.:great:

 

[cloudbuster05]

I don't believe I have ever posted here about Ray Gricar, but have been reading about him for a few years. I saw recently here or on another forum that there might possibly be a connection to J Luna. I followed his case for several years until I could find nothing new. I will never believe he stabbed himself to death...but could that long rambling drive he took have been someone trying to convince him to drop a case that may have had connections to this also? I remember you, JJ, also being on another forum discussing it with us way back when.

I have very much enjoyed your posts and others here as well.

So sad, when someone a person believes in wholeheartedly either changed or looks like he did from the good to the ??? questionable...

Hi Sharyne. Here is a link on Luna:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-md.luna30nov30,0,2938855.story

 

[cloudbuster05]

BBM

Kateyes and JJ (because you're "The RG Guru" in my book), how farfetched and strange would it be if there is another case "he investigated but did NOT prosecute," that would link RG, GS, and someone unknown to us here (I'm thinking of a triangle)?

I believe this post of mine is a peculiar type of craziness that comes from too much activity in too few hours, but my question is one that crossed my mind when I read your post, Kateyes.....

Thank you for inspiring some "late night madness!"

Kiln my local news reported that there are more who have come forward bringing the total to possibly 20. The now governor is expected to speak about this tommorrow. He was the Attorney general at that time in PA. I guess we will know soon. Hope this helps.

 

[Sharyne]

Hi Sharyne. Here is a link on Luna:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-md.luna30nov30,0,2938855.story

Hi cloudbuster and thank you. Is that the latest info on him?

 

[cloudbuster05]

Hi cloudbuster and thank you. Is that the latest info on him?

The latest on him is the link JJ gave which is his own personal opinion blog. JJ believes he committed suicide, my own opinion after reading all the evidence is foul play. YW!

 

[Sharyne]

The latest on him is the link JJ gave which is his own personal opinion blog. JJ believes he committed suicide, my own opinion after reading all the evidence is foul play. YW!

I wondered if there were any forums with more up to date discussions.
Definitely murder imo.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Here is some more links on Luna:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/anniv...us-death-arrest/story?id=9251473#.Tro1JfSIm0s

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2434178...mysterious-death-still-unsolved/#.Tro1gfSIm0s

http://www.ticklethewire.com/2009/0...cutor-jonathan-luna-murder-victim-or-suicide/

http://www.pherson.org/Library/CS10-2.pdf

 

[cloudbuster05]

I wondered if there were any forums with more up to date discussions.
Definitely murder imo.

I haven't found any new forums on it but if I do I will let you know. Im interested in that case too. I have a opinion but no proof of it.

 

[Sharyne]

I haven't found any new forums on it but if I do I will let you know. Im interested in that case too. I have a opinion but no proof of it.

Thanks, and great, I'd love to get back to discussing it.

 

[cloudbuster05]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/documents/sandusky-grand-jury-report11052011.html

(Note- Previous paragraph indicates the nature of the shower encounter as related by an 11 year old boy known as Victim 6. The year the sexual abuse occurred is 1998).

Page 19
<snip> When Victim 6 was dropped off at home, his hair was wet and his mother immediately
questioned him about this and was upset to learn the boy had showered with Sandusky. She
reported the incident to University Police who investigated. After a investigation by
University Police Detective Ronald Shreffler, the investigation was closed after then-Centre
County District Attorney Ray Gricar decided there would be no criminal charges. Shreffler
testified that he was told to close the investigation by the director of the campus police, Thomas
Harmon. That investigation included a second child, B.K., also ll, who was subjected to nearly
identical treatment in the shower as Victim 6, according to Detective Schreffler.
<End copy>

JMO, but after re-reading who did what, it seems possible to me that Detective Schreffler included D.A. Gricar in the investigation into the alleged abuse of Victim B.K. also, as the two cases were close together and obviously very similar.

Similar does not give a prosecutor evidence. Ask any DA what is needed to build a case. It takes evidence. Tomorrow I think will explain alot more details.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

What the Penn State Case PROVES is---cases are swept under the rug....just like most places

 

[Cappuccino]

Similar does not give a prosecutor evidence. Ask any DA what is needed to build a case. It takes evidence. Tomorrow I think will explain alot more details.

Yes, but closing the case doesn't give you evidence either. You need an investigation before you have any hope of gathering evidence, and two similar stories was enough reason to investigate. Closing the investigation at that stage was a strange decision.

 

[rlc]

I am not completely caught up yet from the last few days of posts, but I wanted to ask-is there any way in which an investigation into the cover-up of Sandusky would lead to RG becoming a protected witness? Meeting U.S. Marshals in Lewisburg may explain how he got away, and why he let someone smoke in his car.