PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[Lord_Chatterly]

Unless his body was buried well and animals might have dug up some bone or bones, wouldn't there be nothing of his remains left after this length of time in a place where huge elk and bears and stuff live?

Also, there have been MANY floods in that area in the past 6 years. What's the chance that the floods would not wash a bone,at least 1 of 206 bones, somewhere into civilization?

And one thing I thought of last night late while watching the Investigation Discovery channel--- The press conference photo with 1 of RG's ex wives, his daughter, and PF.
WHAT IF a personally motivated crime occurred, and just because of Mr. Gricar's professional career, persons of interest in an up close and personal killing might be overlooked? ( Note- I know NOTHING about the 2nd ex wife, do not know where she lives, and am not impugning her at all in wondering if either she or the 1st wife might have been checked out?)

Personally I don't think anyone was checked well for anything other than the LG and PF polygraphs. OR we have never been told much.

A reading I had come across had suggested much the same. There seems to have been more emphasis on who RFG's enemies may have been, and the suggestion is that LE should look more into who his friends are, and those who would have been closer to him personally.

I agree with you, we have not been told much ... for some reason ???

 

[curiousjo]

If they can find the mystery woman, then they may solve the disappearance of Ray Gricar.

Did the investigators track down a store video camera with the mystery woman on it, or just a reported siting of Ray talking to a woman? If they have an image of the woman, then it should be shown around the town shops in hopes of a local recognizing her.... and on TV - Now, since the case is back in the press. I agree that she may be involved since she has not come forward.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If they can find the mystery woman, then they may solve the disappearance of Ray Gricar.

Did the investigators track down a store video camera with the mystery woman on it, or just a reported siting of Ray talking to a woman? If they have an image of the woman, then it should be shown around the town shops in hopes of a local recognizing her.... and on TV - Now, since the case is back in the press. I agree that she may be involved since she has not come forward.

No video. At least one witness reported them speaking. They would go into stores separately and then seem to meet when they came out. They were not holding hands or anything.

That said, I'm not sure they were actually together.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

No video. At least one witness reported them speaking. They would go into stores separately and then seem to meet when they came out. They were not holding hands or anything.

That said, I'm not sure they were actually together.

From what I had read, the LMW was 30's to 40, dark brown to black hair, 5' 9", and very attractive. The interaction of behavior here is a bit of smoke and mirrors, MOO. Classic behavior of "we're not together, till we get caught". The illusion of not being together is a detail that caught my attention. I agree with CuriousJo on this one...the LMW should come forward, or recognized by someone in Lewisburg.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It's probably nothing, except for a coincidence and absolutely hideous PR, but you might want to look at post 169 on the Sandusky thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155320&page=7

I doubt if the connection between RFG and Sandusky was known at the time.

 

[SeekingJana]

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/ray-frank-gricar

The FBI has had the case for a long time, just like I thought. POSSIBLE KIDNAPPING.

BTW, interesting how they add the nearest American embassy...hmmm.

 

[Jmoose]

Is there a logical reason why one would not want his/her body found after committing suicide, other than insurance? I am assuming that life insurance is still not paid in the case of suicide, although I do not know if Ray Gricar had any...I am stuck on this question, and think he did not do this to himself.

 

[Merical2]

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/ray-frank-gricar

The FBI has had the case for a long time, just like I thought. POSSIBLE KIDNAPPING.

BTW, interesting how they add the nearest American embassy...hmmm.

I don't post much but I read the Ray Gricar threads pretty closely and I hope I'm not intruding on a conversation here. I have a question. Seems as if a few posters have entertained the possibility of either the Federal WITSEC or a state sponsered witness protection program. If Ray is considered a missing person by the FBI, wouldn't that automatically rule out the possibility of WITSEC? I had wondered about witness protection, myself, but now I doubt it.

 

[SeekingJana]

I don't post much but I read the Ray Gricar threads pretty closely and I hope I'm not intruding on a conversation here. I have a question. Seems as if a few posters have entertained the possibility of either the Federal WITSEC or a state sponsered witness protection program. If Ray is considered a missing person by the FBI, wouldn't that automatically rule out the possibility of WITSEC? I had wondered about witness protection, myself, but now I doubt it.

Yes. The " Wanted By The FBI" poster totally negated any type of WITSEC, IMO.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Is there a logical reason why one would not want his/her body found after committing suicide, other than insurance? I am assuming that life insurance is still not paid in the case of suicide, although I do not know if Ray Gricar had any...I am stuck on this question, and think he did not do this to himself.

Most life insurance does have a suicide clause, but most limit it, e.g. for example it won't pay benefits if the insured committed suicide within 2 years of the purchase of the policy. http://personalinsure.about.com/od/faq1/f/lifefaq5.htm

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

I don't post much but I read the Ray Gricar threads pretty closely and I hope I'm not intruding on a conversation here. I have a question. Seems as if a few posters have entertained the possibility of either the Federal WITSEC or a state sponsered witness protection program. If Ray is considered a missing person by the FBI, wouldn't that automatically rule out the possibility of WITSEC? I had wondered about witness protection, myself, but now I doubt it.

Thanks for jumping in ... no intrusion at all. I don't think there are ANY absolutes in the RFG case. You have raised a good point. There are faults with any of the theories that have been presented, and in my opinion, even with the "Post" by the FBI, the WPP could still have some merit. Just my opinion.

Now, if the FBI "Post" LOWERS the odds, just where does it INCREASE the odds ?

Happy Thanksgiving to all !

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Now, if the FBI "Post" LOWERS the odds, just where does it INCREASE the odds ?

Happy Thanksgiving to all !

That he actually witnessed something that would require him to enter WITSEC.

Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Snarky247]

Yes. The " Wanted By The FBI" poster totally negated any type of WITSEC, IMO.

Just my usual jaded mind at work here, but if the FBI was hiding RG, wouldn't putting out that poster serve as a smokescreen?

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Just my usual jaded mind at work here, but if the FBI was hiding RG, wouldn't putting out that poster serve as a smokescreen?

Jaded ? I find that as a Gem of a thought ! The smokescreen, that is ... well done.

 

[minazoe]

I would have to imagine that if RG is in WPP then whomever is after him has the incentive and the ability to continue a sustained search for Ray and to harm him, no matter when or how they locate him.

so that said...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I would have to imagine that if RG is in WPP then whomever is after him has the incentive and the ability to continue a sustained search for Ray and to harm him, no matter when or how they locate him.

so that said...

Well who? And what would he have witnessed? Further, why not just announce it, and you don't get television shows on him?

Those are some of the problems I have with it.

 

[minazoe]

right, so either there is cabal of very influential people after Ray and he is mortal danger. or.

it could be that if and when a very important case comes to fruition, Ray would be called upon to testify...until then maybe he would be the only weak link if these guys ever got wind they were being investigated....I don't know...I have to stretch things really far to see how someone is deep sixed for 5 years...

maybe it was the heroin thing...maybe he was in very grave danger. But then why leave Patty and his daughter?

it makes more sense to me that a desperate individual killed Ray...I could see someone possibly shaking him down and threatening his family.

I see him going on a drive in good faith and being set up to die...

Rather than imagine a wide conspiracy...I can imagine a desperate individual with everything to lose.

The woman could have just been a random tourist antique shopper which is why no one has come forward.

Ray took that computer...there is no wireless out there, so...

he took it to get rid of it ( rather then scrub it and return it to the State so that would actually be criminal since it is property of the State) which means he was intent on breaking the law when he decided to do that.

or

he took it to work on spread sheets over lunch ( Men are weird this way)

or

he had reason to think someone was in his home looking for it...or that someone was interested in it and decided to keep it on his person at all times.

or

he took it because he was meeting someone and it had to do with the laptop.

 

[minazoe]

I still wonder if Ray was pressured into taking a hike in the Sandusky case in 1998. I wonder if there was money involved...I still wonder if he was supposed to stay out of it and Jerry was supposed to stay away from little boys.

Of course we know now that Jerry has been avidly procuring children up until very recently, always showing up at every event, even out of town with a young boy in tow.

this is very arrogant behaviour....Sandusky has been super comfortable and practically flaunting his man/child relationships...keeping boys swimming trunks in his car...adopting boys...sleepovers etc...

heck, if anything he has ramped it up big time...for someone who has been caught...for someone who was investigated...he sure has been pretty confident ...

like maybe he wasn't worried about that pesky prosecutor anymore...

just sayin.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Right now, I would not rule anything out. I'm not overjoyed about that.

 

[minazoe]

I really hate to wonder this ...but I do wonder if the FBI has been able to look at Rays finances, going way back to 1998.

I also am super curious as to intimations around Ray's personal life, women etc....

does anyone know his personal history, I have heard several comments but I don't know the details...anyone know?

did Ray have a reputation? curious.