PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[J. J. in Phila]

Question for JJ: Some time ago, you had given the Wilkes-Barre sighting a rather high rating of about 75%, IIRC. Since that time, where do you rate that now...significantly lower, or the same ?

Zero, it was ruled out by the BPD. Either they know where RFG was on 4/18, know that he was dead on 4/18, or know who the person identified as RFG really was.

The only ones I'm at 100% are the 4/15/05 Lewisburg witnesses (and possibly the Centre Hall witness).

The typewriter message may have been an oversight (one that RFG didn't make).

 

[SeekingJana]

DON'T LAUGH!! OK?

I just saw an episode on ID where a man made a very long cross- country getaway riding the rails-- disguised as a sort of " down on his luck" kind of guy, when he wasn't.
I have always thought that someone of RG's age might well have heard stories as a boy of men riding the rails.. and might have used the memory when needed..

This episode of ID told how the man learned that ifr there were 3 engines, the train was going a long way without stopping, and if it had like 5 engines ( some in the middle too) it might be going cross- country.
The first thing I thought was-- That's something RG would have thought about too. Just saying.
Sometimes, the most simple is the most likely to be correct.

I just don't know a thing about PA, or how prevalent railways with the traditional cars are in that part of the country.
Fort Worth has a huge train station-- I think it's a major hub.. I've thought about going down to the yard and watching to see if anyone ever still hops a train.

Marie

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Zero, it was ruled out by the BPD. Either they know where RFG was on 4/18, know that he was dead on 4/18, or know who the person identified as RFG really was.

The only ones I'm at 100% are the 4/15/05 Lewisburg witnesses (and possibly the Centre Hall witness).

The typewriter message may have been an oversight (one that RFG didn't make).

Thanks. To me, I had still been confused by the BPD report on the 'sighting' in Wilkes-Barre. They just 'ruled it out', is that it ? It seemed rather vague, or my head is so hard, that this does not sink in ! Don't mean to beat this into the ground, but BPD just brushed it aside without much explanation ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

DON'T LAUGH!! OK?

I just saw an episode on ID where a man made a very long cross- country getaway riding the rails-- disguised as a sort of " down on his luck" kind of guy, when he wasn't.
I have always thought that someone of RG's age might well have heard stories as a boy of men riding the rails.. and might have used the memory when needed..

This episode of ID told how the man learned that ifr there were 3 engines, the train was going a long way without stopping, and if it had like 5 engines ( some in the middle too) it might be going cross- country.
The first thing I thought was-- That's something RG would have thought about too. Just saying.
Sometimes, the most simple is the most likely to be correct.

I just don't know a thing about PA, or how prevalent railways with the traditional cars are in that part of the country.
Fort Worth has a huge train station-- I think it's a major hub.. I've thought about going down to the yard and watching to see if anyone ever still hops a train.

Marie

Not laughing. It was discussed a few years ago.

The line goes up and down the Susquehanna, IIRC. The southern terminus is Harrisburg and it is freight route (Amtrak serves Harrisburg).

It is, however, across the river. I'm not certain, but I think the witnesses have him in Lewisburg after the last train passed. I think there was only one freight train per week.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks. To me, I had still been confused by the BPD report on the 'sighting' in Wilkes-Barre. They just 'ruled it out', is that it ? It seemed rather vague, or my head is so hard, that this does not sink in ! Don't mean to beat this into the ground, but BPD just brushed it aside without much explanation ?

My guess is that they had some evidence it wasn't RFG; maybe the person came forward. At the time, it was considered "credible." Southfield, MI had the same designation. It was one of those maybe cases.

 

[SeekingJana]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge base with us, J.J.. I appreciate your patience so much.

My hubby says Norfolk Southern and CSX have major rail service through PA.. However, one freight train a week means Lewisburg is not on the "hub" route.

However, there's always the possibility that he didn't climb aboard, so to speak, in Lewisburg. IF he was going on a long distance major line, he would have needed water and food rations for possibly several days. That could be why he hung around Lewisburg til night time and was seen with a woman. Maybe she was both the " helper" in the sense of a car to get to the nearest air strip or major freight line route, and for a duffle bag or back pack of bottled water and calorie- dense food.

IOW, he left WITH her, went to a private residence of undertermined location, and some time later, was driven to a freight hub in the nearet large town. He would have researched their schedules..
One thing we haven't discussed since I've been reading the discussion about his case is how, if he walked away, he managed to not be recorded on CC camera at a mini mart refueling his unknown car or restaurant.
Of course, the question then is-- How many Circle K/ McDonald's drive- through type managers in the area are going to review their tape loop at all, and how many are going to review it before it's taped over? I'd say 1/ 100-- maybe. This would have been before the reward was put together and announced...

IF he left voluntarily, I think he had a " Mission: Impossible" type fool-proof plan.. Like the map of 192 that he got off Mapquest.
It just makes sense to me that the purpose was to send to a second person who was unfamiliar with the area. JMO.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge base with us, J.J.. I appreciate your patience so much.

My hubby says Norfolk Southern and CSX have major rail service through PA.. However, one freight train a week means Lewisburg is not on the "hub" route.

It might have been one a day, but it fit with the witness sightings.

IF he left voluntarily, I think he had a " Mission: Impossible" type fool-proof plan.. Like the map of 192 that he got off Mapquest.
It just makes sense to me that the purpose was to send to a second person who was unfamiliar with the area. JMO.

A car purchase would be more likely, either buying one under an assumed name or a straw purchase from one of those people closer two him.

If the map was sent, via e-mail, there would be a record on the office hard drive. If he wanted to check the time of travel, for himself or another, he might have done a map.

Disclosure: I didn't Google it. I'm disabled and have limited sitting/driving tolerance; I use maps to check the drive time a lot.

 

[minazoe]

My guess is that they had some evidence it wasn't RFG; maybe the person came forward. At the time, it was considered "credible." Southfield, MI had the same designation. It was one of those maybe cases.

did they have a cigarette butt from this guy? that would have been brilliant :websleuther:

 

[minazoe]

am I going crazy ? didn't we have some grainy footage of Ray and the woman in the antique store?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

did they have a cigarette butt from this guy? that would have been brilliant :websleuther:

Not that I know of, and they didn't report the man smoking.

 

[minazoe]

I thought the man was smoking like a novice? was that a different sighting? Sorry...need more coffee....

 

[J. J. in Phila]

am I going crazy ? didn't we have some grainy footage of Ray and the woman in the A store?

There was a sighting in August 2005, in a Lufkin, TX Chili's; the witness snapped photos with her cell phone. The FBI analyzed it and said it wasn't him.

There was a sighting in May, I think, outside of Cleveland. PEF thought it could have been him, but wasn't sure, Tony and Chris indicated it wasn't him.

The only post 4/16 sighting that has been publicly disclosed and still listed as "credible" is Southfield. I don't give it as anything better than 50% likely.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I thought the man was smoking like a novice? was that a different sighting? Sorry...need more coffee....

That was Wilkes Barre, 4/18/05. It was ruled out.

 

[minazoe]

I was talking about footage of Ray and a woman in a store in Lewisburg. Right before he disappeared...am I hallucinating this? like from a security camera?

 

[eriklatranyi]

It might have been one a day, but it fit with the witness sightings.

Yes, the train is at least once per day.

 

[Pensfan]

am I going crazy ? didn't we have some grainy footage of Ray and the woman in the antique store?

Were these video tapes shown repeatedly on the news to find this DA? If not, why weren't they?

 

[minazoe]

i thought they were..

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I was talking about footage of Ray and a woman in a store in Lewisburg. Right before he disappeared...am I hallucinating this? like from a security camera?

No, not that I know of.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, the train is at least once per day.

Thank you. I think there was a problem with him being on a train and seen in Lewisburg, IIRC.

Would you have a schedule?

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Thank you. I think there was a problem with him being on a train and seen in Lewisburg, IIRC.

Would you have a schedule?

Here is a comment I came across regarding train travel from Lewisburg: The nearest train station is located in Harrisburg. Amtrak runs passenger trains to major cities on the East Coast. One major factor that hinders Bucknell International students from journeying by train is that you have to take a bus to Haririsburg first

In my opinion, the train scenario is a romantic idea, however, the 'straw' arrangement with another vehicle, is more likely. IIRC, RFG seemed to be in control of what was going on with himself on 4-15. At least until he seemed to have disappeared.