PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[SeekingJana]

It's all good !!! LoL on Mrs. Butterworth. Pass the pancakes, ok ? :wink:

LOL, I've been wondering if she has an aunt Jemima.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

The had just ended on 1/1/05 and it might have applied to existing relationships. I'm not sure, but they did not hold themselves out as husband and wife.

Common law marriage in Pennsylvania applies if the couple 'agrees' to that definition. If the two happen to engage in a joint legal agreement (such as home ownership, or other legal ownership, eg. a business), the two can be considered as Common Law, legally.

So, in essence, if you don't personally identify yourselves as being 'Common Law' married, then you aren't. LoL, only if you admit to it !!!

Note: RFG and PF did not share any joint property...the house was hers, and the Mini as well !

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Definition of the archaic word " paramour" is " illicit lover".
You actually DID meet the definition of the word, and I'm sorry because I think it's a pompous term in this day and age.

Patty F. did not, unless she was married to someone else but separated and living with Ray. In which case, she could have been called a " Paramour" too.

I'm kind of sorry to say it, but you are right. Generally, and properly, a "paramour" is the lover/boyfriend/girlfriend of a person who is married to someone else. Neither PEF nor RFG were married to "someone else" in 2005.

As I said, I think calling RFG "Patty's paramour" would be equally insulting.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

A truly independent witness on 4/16 would increase the chances it was RFG. The odds would go up a bit.

The odds toward Walk Away, right ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Common law marriage in Pennsylvania applies if the couple 'agrees' to that definition. If the two happen to engage in a joint legal agreement (such as home ownership, or other legal ownership, eg. a business), the two can be considered as Common Law, legally.

So, in essence, if you don't personally identify yourselves as being 'Common Law' married, then you aren't. LoL, only if you admit to it !!!

Note: RFG and PF did not share any joint property...the house was hers, and the Mini as well !

Good point, again. I think it would have been hard to claim.

[A few people have wondered why I'm so interested in marriage laws in Pennsylvania. They might want to look at Neiderhiser Estate, 2 Pa. D. & C.3d 302 (1977). That explains a lot.]

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Good point, again. I think it would have been hard to claim.

[A few people have wondered why I'm so interested in marriage laws in Pennsylvania. They might want to look at Neiderhiser Estate, 2 Pa. D. & C.3d 302 (1977). That explains a lot.]

For some of us here in Pennsylvania, it's not a bad place to live !!! (Major tongue in cheek...hehe).

 

[AllisonS]

I've found a reference ( don't ask me where because I didn't copy the link LOL) said she was a " big haired blonde".I guess that means long fluffy hair as opposed to a short boyish cut, because no one has" big hair" any longer.


Edited to remove incorrect info about Big haired woman's youth or lack thereof.

From Lord C's original link http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx "“I thought it was a cute car. So I looked and saw a man, and a woman with blond hair. I remember thinking about her, ‘Wow, big hair.’ And I didn’t think more about it. I remember later on all the questions came up ... was Gricar with a woman, or not with a woman?" AND Butterworth, of Milton, said she saw a man she believed to be Gricar the day he disappeared in a car with a young blonde. " (bold by me)

I missed what you said that you edited, but it does appear that Mrs. Butterworth said she had big hair (having grown up in TexasI agree with you Seeking Jana. I definitely don't think she meant poufy short hair, I'm thinking beauty pageant big TX hair!) and she does say she thought the woman was young.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The odds toward Walk Away, right ?

Yes, but not a lot. It would lower one possible murder scenario a great deal.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

From Lord C's original link http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx "“I thought it was a cute car. So I looked and saw a man, and a woman with blond hair. I remember thinking about her, ‘Wow, big hair.’ And I didn’t think more about it. I remember later on all the questions came up ... was Gricar with a woman, or not with a woman?" AND Butterworth, of Milton, said she saw a man she believed to be Gricar the day he disappeared in a car with a young blonde. " (bold by me)

I missed what you said that you edited, but it does appear that Mrs. Butterworth said she had big hair (having grown up in TexasI agree with you Seeking Jana. I definitely don't think she meant poufy short hair, I'm thinking beauty pageant big TX hair!) and she does say she thought the woman was young.

Not a huge number of blonds with big hair out there. And yes, big hair means 80 style hair to me as well.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Yes, but not a lot. It would lower one possible murder scenario a great deal.

Now would that 'possible murder scenario' be the one affiliated to a well known Centre County scandal ? hehe...we're dancin' JJ ... bring it on !!!

 

[AllisonS]

Not a huge number of blonds with big hair out there. And yes, big hair means 80 style hair to me as well.

Especially young blonds with big hair. I guess young is relative though..The older I get the older 'young' is, lol. I would think that most people with big hair in 2005 were probably at least children or teens in the early 80's. Anyone younger than that would probably never be caught dead with big hair.

 

[SeekingJana]

Not a huge number of blonds with big hair out there. And yes, big hair means 80 style hair to me as well.

I'm probably not objective about what big hair is or is not in 2011. Every hair stylist I've visited for years says " You have more hair than anyone I've ever seen". They mean that it's naturally so thick.
And I wear it very long.
But, to my credit, it's straight and not layered.

To me, big hair means the Dolly Parton look with lots of layers all teased up and sprayed. I do see some of that in the DFW metroplex.. Yeah, it's still a Texas thing for some homegrown Texans.
I am a transplant... from Atlanta :floorlaugh: ( also full of big-haired blondes)

 

[SeekingJana]

Especially young blonds with big hair. I guess young is relative though..The older I get the older 'young' is, lol. I would think that most people with big hair in 2005 were probably at least children or teens in the early 80's. Anyone younger than that would probably never be caught dead with big hair.

BBM. Yeah, that's why I asked how old Mrs. Butterworth might be. "Big hair" might also be relative to her age and generation's styles. Ohh, this still cracks me up. Can you imagine asking someone-- " How old is Mrs. Butterworth"? :floorlaugh: They'd cart us off.

 

[SeekingJana]

I'm kind of sorry to say it, but you are right. Generally, and properly, a "paramour" is the lover/boyfriend/girlfriend of a person who is married to someone else. Neither PEF nor RFG were married to "someone else" in 2005.

As I said, I think calling RFG "Patty's paramour" would be equally insulting.

OK. My use of " someone else" was redundant.
Change it to " If Patty was married while living with Ray"

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Especially young blonds with big hair. I guess young is relative though..The older I get the older 'young' is, lol. I would think that most people with big hair in 2005 were probably at least children or teens in the early 80's. Anyone younger than that would probably never be caught dead with big hair.

This 'Big Hair' talk is cracking me up. Never have I heard someone describe another this way. I can understand maybe 'short' or 'long', or possible 'up' , but not BIG !!! How about other things that could be big...hmmmmm...lol.

 

[SeekingJana]

This 'Big Hair' talk is cracking me up. Never have I heard someone describe another this way. I can understand maybe 'short' or 'long', or possible 'up' , but not BIG !!! How about other things that could be big...hmmmmm...lol.

THAT'S what I didn't want to say. In the South, men friends of mine who wsre impressed with some woman's chest size would say " Hmmm. Big hair". That saying was back in the 80's too, now that I think of it.. LOL.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

OK. My use of " someone else" was redundant.
Change it to " If Patty was married while living with Ray"

It was not redundant! It would apply if PEF or RG were married to someone else.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Now would that 'possible murder scenario' be the one affiliated to a well known Centre County scandal ? hehe...we're dancin' JJ ... bring it on !!!

Not necessarily. It could be a number of similar things, PSU, Centre County, possibly Rockview State Prison.

 

[AllisonS]

BBM. Yeah, that's why I asked how old Mrs. Butterworth might be. "Big hair" might also be relative to her age and generation's styles. Ohh, this still cracks me up. Can you imagine asking someone-- " How old is Mrs. Butterworth"? :floorlaugh: They'd cart us off.

Maybe Mrs. Butterworth is from Texas too? I would say Mrs. Butterworth sounds southern to me! :floorlaugh:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

To me, big hair means the Dolly Parton look with lots of layers all teased up and sprayed. I do see some of that in the DFW metroplex.. Yeah, it's still a Texas thing for some homegrown Texans.
I am a transplant... from Atlanta :floorlaugh: ( also full of big-haired blondes)

That is pretty much what I'd call big hair. Dolly Parton, Farrah Fawcett in the 70's, early Trisha Yearwood, early Jennifer Beals, Maria Shriver, and the women of Dynasty.