PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #8

[Maxim]

I would suspect that the laptop, if dropped or tossed, might have floated for a few seconds, as the water filled it. It would not have sunk like a stone, but it would not have drifted 100 yards before settling on the bottom either.

Yes, I agree. It wouldn't have sunk like a stone, or drifted 100 yards.

However, I contend that had it drifted much it would have been found to either side of the pillar, not at the base. While it drifted, it would have been caught by the currents on either side; unless, it had been dropped into the small area where the water moved toward the pillar.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, I agree. It wouldn't have sunk like a stone, or drifted 100 yards.

However, I contend that had it drifted much it would have been found to either side of the pillar, not at the base. While it drifted, it would have been caught by the currents on either side; unless, it had been dropped into the small area where the water moved toward the pillar.

I'm not certain that it was right at the base.

The thing is, if someone put it there to make people think RFG jumped into the water, why put it on the side of the bridge that does not have a walk way?

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

http://www.namus.gov/

Just had my introduction with NamUs. I see Ray Gricar's case has a 5 Star Profile rating. Any ideas what that may mean ?

Also discovered :

1) No fingerprint records on file.

2) The scar on Ray's left cheek does not appear to be listed as a distinguishing feature. JJ had mentioned this to us yesterday.

Any thoughts ? Thanks, Ladyheartfixer ! Case #1982

 

[Maxim]

I'm not certain that it was right at the base.

I heard "leaning" against during one broadcast. Whether or not the laptop was actually *leaning* might be a non-factual expansion by a newscaster. Newscasters have been known to embellish.

The thing is, if someone put it there to make people think RFG jumped into the water, why put it on the side of the bridge that does not have a walk way?

The objective was to get rid of the laptop. If the person (RG, or another) wanted to do it immediately, and out farther into the river, the bridge was the solution. Swift, convenient, few (if any pedestrians) and the laptop could be into the river quickly. There is a clear view of oncoming traffic, and a view of pedestrian traffic. You can see less from a moving car than as a pedestrian walking on the same side of the bridge.

We don't know who dumped the laptop, but I suspect is was RG--60%.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just had my introduction with NamUs. I see Ray Gricar's case has a 5 Star Profile rating. Any ideas what that may mean ?

Also discovered :

1) No fingerprint records on file.

2) The scar on Ray's left cheek does not appear to be listed as a distinguishing feature. JJ had mentioned this to us yesterday.

Any thoughts ? Thanks, Ladyheartfixer ! Case #1982

The scar was mentioned in relation to the Texas sighting, but it is apparently a small one.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is the scar reference: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05229/555106-85.stm

It is on his right cheek.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

I heard "leaning" against during one broadcast. Whether or not the laptop was actually *leaning* might be a non-factual expansion by a newscaster. Newscasters have been known to embellish.





The objective was to get rid of the laptop. If the person (RG, or another) wanted to do it immediately, and out farther into the river, the bridge was the solution. Swift, convenient, few (if any pedestrians) and the laptop could be into the river quickly. There is a clear view of oncoming traffic, and a view of pedestrian traffic. You can see less from a moving car than as a pedestrian walking on the same side of the bridge.

We don't know who dumped the laptop, but I suspect is was RG--60%.

You mention few (if any) pedestrians. What is known of volume of vehicle traffic on this bridge ? I am thinking of this in terms of different times of day. Yesterday, watching the flood films, I had noticed NO traffic on the bridge, perhaps due to the flood causing road blocks, and pedestrians all over the place. In more normal times, is this bridge carrying vehicles at a constant rate. If so, then what about night time...is it sparse ? I have never been able to get a grasp of this.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Here is the scar reference: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05229/555106-85.stm

It is on his right cheek.

:blushing: So sorry...I stand corrected. Ok, so the right cheek scar is not a listed detail on NamUs.

Now, I thought the Texas sighting had been ruled out, right? Not that I want to open That :worms:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JKA just weight in, and said that the decision not to file charges was RFG's decision (which is what I've been saying). http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/10/4114011/sandusky-penn-state-police-chief.html

The same story also notes that the head of the University Police at the time, Thomas Harmon was a friend and neighbor of Mr. Sandusky.

 

[AllisonS]

Just had my introduction with NamUs. I see Ray Gricar's case has a 5 Star Profile rating. Any ideas what that may mean ?

Also discovered :

1) No fingerprint records on file.

2) The scar on Ray's left cheek does not appear to be listed as a distinguishing feature. JJ had mentioned this to us yesterday.

Any thoughts ? Thanks, Ladyheartfixer ! Case #1982

Glad to see you got on. I was just coming over here earlier to tell you about NamUs registration and I got a virus from this forum for the second time in three days. Grrr! One of those inane ones that try to sell you antivirus software and act like they are part of the windows security system.

 

[Maxim]

You mention few (if any) pedestrians. What is known of volume of vehicle traffic on this bridge ? I am thinking of this in terms of different times of day. Yesterday, watching the flood films, I had noticed NO traffic on the bridge, perhaps due to the flood causing road blocks, and pedestrians all over the place. In more normal times, is this bridge carrying vehicles at a constant rate. If so, then what about night time...is it sparse ? I have never been able to get a grasp of this.

I've been through Lewisburg several times--never stopped there. I can tell you that the major portion of traffic is north/south along Rte 15. The bridge continues Rte 45 from west to eastward but doesn't go anyway special unless you wish to take the back route to Danville.

I did take that route down 192, 15 to 45, and east on 45--so, I've been over the bridge. It wasn't memorable. There wasn't much on the other side of the bridge. I would speculate there wouldn't be nearly the traffic as on 15. Probably would be sporatic traffic and lulls, with little night traffic.

In the flood films, you can see what looks to be a bikeway alongside the north lane, the south side has the sidewalk.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Glad to see you got on. I was just coming over here earlier to tell you about NamUs registration and I got a virus from this forum for the second time in three days. Grrr! One of those inane ones that try to sell you antivirus software and act like they are part of the windows security system.

You got it from the WS forum, you say ? Grrrr !!! I have not had any problems...pretty good firewall on my end. Now, I did have an intrusion attempt from one of the pictures viewed from this thread, but i was still able to continue viewing, as the firewall blocked 'the attack'. Thanks...will be on the lookout !!!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You mention few (if any) pedestrians. What is known of volume of vehicle traffic on this bridge ? I am thinking of this in terms of different times of day. Yesterday, watching the flood films, I had noticed NO traffic on the bridge, perhaps due to the flood causing road blocks, and pedestrians all over the place. In more normal times, is this bridge carrying vehicles at a constant rate. If so, then what about night time...is it sparse ? I have never been able to get a grasp of this.

I'm pretty sure the eastern approaches to the bridge were partly flooded at that point.

I've never been there at nighttime, but if it is anything like the rest of PA, late at night, i.e. 1:00 AM to 4:00 AM, traffic will slacken. It is a major enough road that I'd doubt if hours would go by without traffic.

There is a light at the Lewisburg side of the bridge, so cars could be stopped at the point above where the laptop was found; well, there was when I was there. There was one on the eastern approach, so you could probably see if anyone was behind you.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

:blushing: So sorry...I stand corrected. Ok, so the right cheek scar is not a listed detail on NamUs.

Now, I thought the Texas sighting had been ruled out, right? Not that I want to open That :worms:

Why are you blushing? You had it right and it's not on NanUS.

It was just mentioned (the only place I've seen it mentioned) in the Texas story.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

I've been through Lewisburg several times--never stopped there. I can tell you that the major portion of traffic is north/south along Rte 15. The bridge continues Rte 45 from west to eastward but doesn't go anyway special unless you wish to take the back route to Danville.

I did take that route down 192, 15 to 45, and east on 45--so, I've been over the bridge. It wasn't memorable. There wasn't much on the other side of the bridge. I would speculate there wouldn't be nearly the traffic as on 15. Probably would be sporatic traffic and lulls, with little night traffic.

In the flood films, you can see what looks to be a bikeway alongside the north lane, the south side has the sidewalk.

Great, Maxim ! Now help me paint the rest of the picture here. From having been there, ok...let's say on a vehicle trip on the way BACK into Lewisburg (from East to West, ok?). You be the driver here. Traffic-wise, you are on the 'north' side of the bridge, right ? Not on the Pedestrian side. Let's even say during the daytime...could you easily just stop the car right there in the traffic lane, get out, walk up to the edge, and drop 'Our' laptop, get back in, and drive off, without delaying traffic, and not draw that much attention to yourself ? Try me on this one !!! You be our Bad Guy, or Ray Gricar, ok ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Great, Maxim ! Now help me paint the rest of the picture here. From having been there, ok...let's say on a vehicle trip on the way BACK into Lewisburg (from East to West, ok?). You be the driver here. Traffic-wise, you are on the 'north' side of the bridge, right ? Not on the Pedestrian side. Let's even say during the daytime...could you easily just stop the car right there in the traffic lane, get out, walk up to the edge, and drop 'Our' laptop, get back in, and drive off, without delaying traffic, and not draw that much attention to yourself ? Try me on this one !!! You be our Bad Guy, or Ray Gricar, ok ?

You could just open the window before crossing, get to that point where you want it to go in, put it on the window frame, and, with a minimal amount of force, push it out. The barrier is only about 32"-34" so you clear it easily. Driving slowly or stopping briefly it would very easy to do, and just driving naturally would put you close enough to do it.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

I'm pretty sure the eastern approaches to the bridge were partly flooded at that point.

I've never been there at nighttime, but if it is anything like the rest of PA, late at night, i.e. 1:00 AM to 4:00 AM, traffic will slacken. It is a major enough road that I'd doubt if hours would go by without traffic.

There is a light at the Lewisburg side of the bridge, so cars could be stopped at the point above where the laptop was found; well, there was when I was there. There was one on the eastern approach, so you could probably see if anyone was behind you.

Good. Just the same as I addressed to Maxim. You be the Bad Guy, or Ray Gricar. Drive the car...stop in the driving lane, from East to West, ok ? Easy enough ? Give it a try.
Go ahead, stop and drop 'Our' laptop over the northside of the bridge ! Reasonable ? Likely ?

 

[Maxim]

Great, Maxim ! Now help me paint the rest of the picture here. From having been there, ok...let's say on a vehicle trip on the way BACK into Lewisburg (from East to West, ok?). You be the driver here. Traffic-wise, you are on the 'north' side of the bridge, right ? Not on the Pedestrian side. Let's even say during the daytime...could you easily just stop the car right there in the traffic lane, get out, walk up to the edge, and drop 'Our' laptop, get back in, and drive off, without delaying traffic, and not draw that much attention to yourself ? Try me on this one !!! You be our Bad Guy, or Ray Gricar, ok ?

LOL, sure! Proceeding West toward the bridge, you could stop, get out and dump the laptop with all of the attention of a "Chinese Fire Drill" during the day. At night, you could probably get out, or move to the passenger side and dump it; or, you could approach from the opposite direction, cross over so that the rail is close to the driver's side and dump it from the driver's side.

It would be less obvious (mo) to walk from the Lewisburg side (along the bikeway area) wait for a lull, and drop the laptop. Seems the expedient way to this "Bad Guy."

Just talked to someone who drove that road more recently. He described the area beyond the bridge to the east as mainly "cowpasture." At night, you might meet an oncoming car about every 5 min. or more.

Bad Guy signing off for a short while. Cookie Squad is here to bake. My expertise is TASTE-TESTER. I wouldn't want to lose my position.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

You could just open the window before crossing, get to that point where you want it to go in, put it on the window frame, and, with a minimal amount of force, push it out. The barrier is only about 32"-34" so you clear it easily. Driving slowly or stopping briefly it would very easy to do, and just driving naturally would put you close enough to do it.

Ok good. Now you could do the window frame toss every time, right ? Like 10 times in a row ? No misses, or sloppy drops, right ? (Devil's Advocate, sorry). Huh ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

LOL, sure! Proceeding West toward the bridge, you could stop, get out and dump the laptop with all of the attention of a "Chinese Fire Drill" during the day. At night, you could probably get out, or move to the passenger side and dump it; or, you could approach from the opposite direction, cross over so that the rail is close to the driver's side and dump it from the driver's side.

You don't even need to slide into the passenger seat.

The Mini is about 66" wide, my care is three inches wider. RFG was 6'; I'm about 2-3" shorter. I was able (using a satchel of phone books that was a bit heavier) to duplicate a toss like that. I got mine to go out about 6-8 feet from the car and it would have cleared the 34" barrier with room to spare. I'm certain that RFG had a better arm that I do.

Mini Dimensions: http://www.automotive.com/2004/101/mini/cooper/base-hatchback/324/specifications/