PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #9

[J. J. in Phila]

I guess we'll have to wait on this "new evidence"

You may interested in reading his latest blog entry. He addresses the question you asked earlier in this thread about Harmon's email to Schultz.

http://notpsu.blogspot.com/2012/07/who-saved-sandusky-in-1998-part-i.html

Well, the key question in all those he asks is why the Seasock report would have more credibility than the Chambers' report.

 

[BigCat]

Well, the key question in all those he asks is why the Seasock report would have more credibility than the Chambers' report.

I agree. Regardless of who sent Seasock to evaluate the child, it was RFG's decision to close the case based on the authority of the less credentialed evaluator. Why?

Another question I have: How do we know that Schreffler recommended pressing charges, besides Schreffler's testimony? I did not see it in the police report and no file was found in the DA's office. Is that recommendation documented someplace else?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I agree. Regardless of who sent Seasock to evaluate the child, it was RFG's decision to close the case based on the authority of the less credentialed evaluator. Why?

Another question I have: How do we know that Schreffler recommended pressing charges, besides Schreffler's testimony? I did not see it in the police report and no file was found in the DA's office. Is that recommendation documented someplace else?

That section of the police report has been redacted, but the grand jury had it. We also have JKA's statement that there was enough evidence for her to possibly have prosecuted.

 

[rlc]

I wonder if this has any relevance.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=56

In January 2005, the Attorney General's office established a child predator unit (really bumped it up from a task force to a unit) using specially trained agents and prosecutors across PA to help ferret out predators. From a quick glance at some of the arrest reports out of this operation, it appears that people acted as children online, and set up meetings with predators. Could RFG have been one of the prosecutors working on this, and if so, could it have had any role in his disappearance?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I wonder if this has any relevance.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=56

In January 2005, the Attorney General's office established a child predator unit (really bumped it up from a task force to a unit) using specially trained agents and prosecutors across PA to help ferret out predators. From a quick glance at some of the arrest reports out of this operation, it appears that people acted as children online, and set up meetings with predators. Could RFG have been one of the prosecutors working on this, and if so, could it have had any role in his disappearance?

No prosecutions that I know of under that section of the act. I've read about a few others on-line.

 

[BigCat]

I suppose this article belongs in the Sandusky forum, but it does touch on the Anwar Phillips case.

Penn State faces federal penalties as Education Dept. probes Sandusky case

http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/2012/08/01/penn-state-faces-federal-penalties-as-education-dept-probes-sandusky-case/ai2lgwm/?page=1

In 2002, when a Penn State University football standout was accused of a dorm-room rape, the details were easy to come by.

After all, the alleged assault became a national news story when coach Joe Paterno allowed the accused cornerback to suit up for a postseason game despite the pending criminal charges.

The only place the curious couldn’t find notice of the case was Penn State’s federally mandated campus crime report.

It was never listed, even though that was required by federal law (the player was ultimately acquitted). In fact, the university reported no sexual assaults involving students on or off campus that year.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Okay, here is yet another bizarre one: http://www.scribd.com/doc/97821156/Sandusky-Paterno-and-the-Death-of-Ray-Frank-Gricar.

Several points:

1. I'm not too sure how having $100,000+ in the bank, no debt, and expecting a pension in less than 9 months, qualifies as being "broke."

2. I'm not too sure how trying to prosecute the incredibly weak Phillips case, with no physical evidence, the victim indicating that she was kissing the alleged rapist, is "covering up."

3. I'm not sure that fact Paterno's name ends in a vowel, or that some relative dressed in a double breasted overcoat, necessarily means he is in "the Black Hand."

 

[BigCat]

Okay, here is yet another bizarre one: http://www.scribd.com/doc/97821156/Sandusky-Paterno-and-the-Death-of-Ray-Frank-Gricar.

Several points:

1. I'm not too sure how having $100,000+ in the bank, no debt, and expecting a pension in less than 9 months, qualifies as being "broke."

2. I'm not too sure how trying to prosecute the incredibly weak Phillips case, with no physical evidence, the victim indicating that she was kissing the alleged rapist, is "covering up."

3. I'm not sure that fact Paterno's name ends in a vowel, or that some relative dressed in a double breasted overcoat, necessarily means he is in "the Black Hand."

I came across that document last week when I was searching for more information on the details of the 98 investigation. I agree with the 3 problems you noted. RFG clearly didn't cover up the Phillips case. That accusation makes no sense. However, I still think it's possible that RFG's attitude toward the football program changed after 98. He may have been, pre-98, more willing to work with the football staff on player discipline than he was later on. A "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" type of thing.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I came across that document last week when I was searching for more information on the details of the 98 investigation. I agree with the 3 problems you noted. RFG clearly didn't cover up the Phillips case. That accusation makes no sense. However, I still think it's possible that RFG's attitude toward the football program changed after 98. He may have been, pre-98, more willing to work with the football staff on player discipline than he was later on. A "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" type of thing.

Well, he still could have prosecuted Sandusky at any point prior to his disappearance. I will grant you that his attitude could have changed, but politically it doesn't even make sense. Sandusky, while still popular, was an ex-coach from 2000 onward; it would have been politically better to prosecute from 2000. You add to that that Sandusky was not [i[going[/i] to be the football coach.

In some ways, if Sandusky had been prosecuted, RFG would have been doing Penn State a favor in 1998.

 

[BigCat]

Well, he still could have prosecuted Sandusky at any point prior to his disappearance. I will grant you that his attitude could have changed, but politically it doesn't even make sense. Sandusky, while still popular, was an ex-coach from 2000 onward; it would have been politically better to prosecute from 2000. You add to that that Sandusky was not [i[going[/i] to be the football coach.

In some ways, if Sandusky had been prosecuted, RFG would have been doing Penn State a favor in 1998.

Absolutely. Of course, no one associated with Penn State football would have felt that way in 98.

 

[BigCat]

I learned on a Penn State football message board that Lindy Lauro was the uncle of Jerry Lauro.

Joe Paterno recruited at least one of Lauro's players, Bruce Clark. It's safe to assume Paterno had contact with Lindy Lauro at some point during the recruitment of Clark.

http://www.ncnewsonline.com/topstories/x1405465220/Farewell-Lindy-Legendary-New-Castle-football-coach-laid-to-rest

Former Red Hurricane all-stater, Penn State University Lombardi Award winner and 14-year pro player Bruce Clark arrived from State College to serve as a pallbearer, as did former Cincinnati Bengal Rick Razzano, who drove five hours to honor his mentor. Nick Rapone came in from the University of Delaware, where he continues a successful coaching career.

They joined Anthony “Monk” Laurenza, Allan Joseph, Jesse Moss, Phil “Pudgy” Tony, Tom Tony, Richard “Ripper” Humphrey, Anthony Aven, Jerry Lauro, Gary Schooley, Sam Flora, Joe Cowart, E.J. DeCarbo and Howard Andy as pallbearers and honorary pallbearers.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Absolutely. Of course, no one associated with Penn State football would have felt that way in 98.

Actually, they may have. While Sandusky could has, "stuck around" as assistant coach, it would have been less expensive to have someone else and to possibly train a successor.

What better way to make sure not to have Sandusky eventually being coach? Get him arrested.

 

[BigCat]

Actually, they may have. While Sandusky could has, "stuck around" as assistant coach, it would have been less expensive to have someone else and to possibly train a successor.

What better way to make sure not to have Sandusky eventually being coach? Get him arrested.

No way. If you won't believe me on this one, take the world of Vicky Triponey. Here's an ESPN interview with her from this morning. (I posted part of this interview in the Sandusky forum. This is the entire interview)

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8229520

The image of the program was perfection. There could be no blemish. The defensive coordinator being charged with the sexual molestation of a child would have been a blemish. No need to debate how big or small of a blemish it would have been. It's enough to say it would have done some harm to the image of the football program. And that image had to be protected "at all costs".

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Tripony wasn't even there in 1998. I don't see the relevance.

 

[BigCat]

Tripony wasn't even there in 1998. I don't see the relevance.

She was there five years later. Penn State didn't become the Kremlin overnight. IMO, her comments are very relevent.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

She was there five years later. Penn State didn't become the Kremlin overnight. IMO, her comments are very relevent.

Not to this one, plus there is another factor. Prior to Victim 6, Paterno did not want Sandusky to become head coach. Gricar prosecuting could help prevent that.

 

[BigCat]

Not to this one, plus there is another factor. Prior to Victim 6, Paterno did not want Sandusky to become head coach. Gricar prosecuting could help prevent that.

Paterno didn't need RFG to press charges against Sandusky. Paterno had already told Sandusky he would not be the next head coach in February of 2008. And without Paterno's blessing, Sandusky would never realize his ambition.

On page 57 of the Freeh report, it states that Curley wrote Spanier and Schultz telling them that Sandusky was not happy about the situation. I think it's possible that Sandusky's subsequent reckless behavior was a form of retaliation. He repeatedly sexual assaulted boys in the years between 98 - 2001 either in Penn State facilities or at university sponsored events. As if he was saying to Paterno, "what are you going to do, report me?"

I'm speculating, of course. I have no idea if Sandusky intended to destroy Paterno's legacy. All I know is that he did destroy that legacy. I mean, c'mon, the guy wore Penn State gear during his perp walk! Was that not a big "in your face" to Paterno?

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/08/big-ten-reserves-the-right-to-impose-sanctions-on-penn-state/

JMO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Paterno didn't need RFG to press charges against Sandusky. Paterno had already told Sandusky he would not be the next head coach in February of 2008. And without Paterno's blessing, Sandusky would never realize his ambition.

I think you mean 1998.

Basically, they were looking at an "exit option" for Sandusky to get him out of the assistant position. One option was an assistant AD (AAD) position. It was a title, maybe more money, but no real responsibility. Another was retirement. Whatever it was, they wanted him eased out.

Prosecution in 1998 would have done that, as would, potentially, a finding of abuse. I don't see Paterno/PSU having a motive to protect Sandusky in 1998, at least not a strong one. Like I said, RFG prosecuting Sandusky in 1998 would have been doing Paterno/PSU a favor.

I'm speculating, of course. I have no idea if Sandusky intended to destroy Paterno's legacy. All I know is that he did destroy that legacy. I mean, c'mon, the guy wore Penn State gear during his perp walk! Was that not a big "in your face" to Paterno?

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/08/big-ten-reserves-the-right-to-impose-sanctions-on-penn-state/

I can think of another reason, one that is why I sometimes wear Penn State gear on those rare occasions when I'm in Central PA. It's a way to say, **See, I'm really one of you,** adding, in Sandusky's case, **I'm not a monster.**

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The problems that have with 1998 are these:

1. This was clearly a strong enough case to prosecute.

2. The way the case was handled, removing Arnold, and not getting the non-admissible reports to Lauro just wasn't the way it was done normally.

3. There doesn't seem to have been any pressure, or any moderately good reason, for PSU to pressure Gricar.

4. There is no evidence Gricar was paid off. Further, it wasn't too logical for PSU to pay it off, and there is no indication that Sandusky knew he was being investigated until confronted by Lauro and Schreffler.

1 and 2 strongly point to 3 or 4, but there is no evidence 3 or 4 happened.

Could RFG just have been "soft" on child sexual abuse issues? He just didn't think they were worthy of prosecution?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I learned on a Penn State football message board that Lindy Lauro was the uncle of Jerry Lauro.

Joe Paterno recruited at least one of Lauro's players, Bruce Clark. It's safe to assume Paterno had contact with Lindy Lauro at some point during the recruitment of Clark.

http://www.ncnewsonline.com/topstories/x1405465220/Farewell-Lindy-Legendary-New-Castle-football-coach-laid-to-rest

Very interesting, but it is a tenuous link. Being related to someone who had contact with Paterno isn't too strong.

I did find some web references to Lauro being a football player in college, but not at Penn State. His spouse may have, but that is still tenuous.