PA PA - Sabrina Kahler, 20, Erie, 24 Jun 2002
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FindingSabrina
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From the bottom of my heart, I believe she is buried close to where she was last seen. The area in which she disappeared (Eagly Road, North Springfield, PA 16411) has never been developed and is mostly woods. Additionally, searches for her body weren't particularly thorough. She was last seen with a man who tried to murder his girlfriend the previous night.
LookingForSabrina
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The LEO for this case is really open for interviews right now for podcasts and such.
Pennysmom2
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June 23, 2023
www.yourerie.com
While Kahler and Heck were swimming, there was apparently a confrontation with Heck's ex-girlfriend. Heck and Kahler went to the Tasty Twist ice cream stand and he called the police. A state trooper accompanied them back to Eagley Park, where Heck gave his ex-girlfriend a pair of pants that belonged to her, then he and Kahler left again. Later that day they may have been seen on Old Albion Road in Springfield Township, but that hasn't been confirmed.
Heck claims he dropped Kahler off to at the West Erie Plaza Movie Theater and he gave her money so she could see the film Lilo & Stitch and then get back home. He is considered a suspect in her disappearance; police have stated that they do not believe Heck's story about dropping Kahler off at the theater. He drove Kahler around in a black and red Ford Bronco on the day of her disappearance.
A witness claimed Kahler may have visited the Elk Creek Access area, a popular local fishing spot, the day she disappeared. It is unknown whether the woman seen was Kahler or another individual who resembled her. Heck was incarcerated on burglary charges after Kahler disappeared.
Kahler graduated from East High School, where she was in special education classes, in 2001. Her mother describes her as a kind, accepting and very naive young woman. She was declared legally dead in 2009. Her disappearance remains unsolved.
21 years later, Sabrina Kahler cold case remains unsolved
More than 20 years later, a local cold case remains unsolved. This Saturday, June 24, marks the 21-year anniversary of when Sabrina Kahler went missing. Kahler was 20 years old at the time and was …
www.yourerie.com
- Missing Since 06/24/2002
- Missing From Erie, Pennsylvania
- Classification Endangered Missing
- Sex Female
- Race White
- Date of Birth 06/20/1982 (41)
- Age 20 years old
- Height and Weight 5'2, 130 pounds
- Clothing/Jewelry Description A two-piece bathing suit, a pink or red top, blue shorts, and blue and white sneakers.
- Medical Conditions Kahler is mildly mentally disabled; she has the mental capacity of a fourteen-year-old.
- Associated Vehicle(s) Black and red Ford Bronco
- Distinguishing Characteristics Caucasian female. Dark blonde hair, blue eyes. Kahler has braces on her teeth, and one of her ears is pierced. Her nickname is Bree.
Details of Disappearance
Kahler was last seen at a swimming hole at Eagley Park in western Erie County, Pennsylvania on June 24, 2002. She was in the company of a David Sherman Heck at the time. A photograph of Heck is posted with this case summary. He is a friend of Kahler's live-in boyfriend.While Kahler and Heck were swimming, there was apparently a confrontation with Heck's ex-girlfriend. Heck and Kahler went to the Tasty Twist ice cream stand and he called the police. A state trooper accompanied them back to Eagley Park, where Heck gave his ex-girlfriend a pair of pants that belonged to her, then he and Kahler left again. Later that day they may have been seen on Old Albion Road in Springfield Township, but that hasn't been confirmed.
Heck claims he dropped Kahler off to at the West Erie Plaza Movie Theater and he gave her money so she could see the film Lilo & Stitch and then get back home. He is considered a suspect in her disappearance; police have stated that they do not believe Heck's story about dropping Kahler off at the theater. He drove Kahler around in a black and red Ford Bronco on the day of her disappearance.
A witness claimed Kahler may have visited the Elk Creek Access area, a popular local fishing spot, the day she disappeared. It is unknown whether the woman seen was Kahler or another individual who resembled her. Heck was incarcerated on burglary charges after Kahler disappeared.
Kahler graduated from East High School, where she was in special education classes, in 2001. Her mother describes her as a kind, accepting and very naive young woman. She was declared legally dead in 2009. Her disappearance remains unsolved.
Investigating Agency
- Erie Police Department 814-870-1157
Source Information
Updated 7 times since October 12, 2004. Last updated March 28, 2023; age-progression updated.
Pennysmom2
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Sabrina Kahler – CUE – Community United Effort
ncmissingpersons.org
Sabrina2
Clipping found in Latrobe Bulletin published in Latrobe, Pennsylvania on 6/27/2005. Sabrina2
www.newspapers.com
FindingSabrina
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But not the Pennsylvania State Cop who was one of the last known people to see her alive. He was reassigned to Lawrence Park and has never publicly commented on the case.
LookingForSabrina
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There are many people who feel deeply sad about the case because they just saw her before she went missing. They feel like they should have done more. I don't know how much they would have to say. It was a short interaction.
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June 24th 2024
''Erie News Now investigates in a two-part series.
The search for Kahler remains active.
At the time of her disappearance, Kahler was described as 5 fee two inches tall and weighing 125 pounds.
Anyone with information is asked to call 814-870-1506.
Or email Detective Craig Stoker at [email protected].''
Jun 24, 2024
Erie News Now Investigates: Sabrina Mae Kahler Last Seen June 24, 2002
''Erie News Now investigates in a two-part series.
The search for Kahler remains active.
At the time of her disappearance, Kahler was described as 5 fee two inches tall and weighing 125 pounds.
Anyone with information is asked to call 814-870-1506.
Or email Detective Craig Stoker at [email protected].''
Erie News Now Investigates: Sabrina Mae Kahler Last Seen June 24, 2002
LookingForSabrina
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you forgot part one
It's been 22 years and I'm still looking for my daughter. Sabrina Kahler, please help me find her.
How many sleepless nights have you had? Many,
many, many, many, many, many, I'm almost becoming a Insomniac person,"
drive.google.com
"it's another special report. Erie news now investigates June 24 2002 it's one day. Members of the Erie Police Department's cool case unit thinks about nearly every day. It was day. It was the day 20 year old Sabrina may Kahler was last seen. It's now 22 years in county. It's a family that wants closures and investigators that want some answers. Here's part one of an Erie news now cold case investigation.
It's been 22 years and I'm still looking for my daughter. Sabrina Kahler, please help me find her.
How many sleepless nights have you had? Many,
many, many, many, many, many, I'm almost becoming a Insomniac person,"
Screen Recording 2024-06-24 180528.mp4
drive.google.com
Last edited:
LookingForSabrina
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There was a recent podcast .
Unknown Speaker 0:00
You're listening to Keystone cold cases, a podcast where we reignite cold cases across Pennsylvania.
Unknown Speaker 0:18
Hey, it's Shannon. Hey, it's Chelsea, and today, we are going to cover a missing persons case. And I was kind of looking up statistics. And according to world population review, this year in Pennsylvania, there are 504 open missing person cases and 325
Unknown Speaker 0:37
unidentified people, which is kind of like astonishing. I mean, that's a staggering number, right? Yeah, that's a lot. But if you actually look at it, the rate is really only 3.9 per 100,000
Unknown Speaker 0:53
which kind of puts it more in perspective. And that's kind of low according to name us. Most cases are resolved, and the percentage that aren't is under 1% which also seems pretty low.
Unknown Speaker 1:07
The people that are found were either lost, they made the conscious decision to step away, or they were taken now the case we are covering today is over 20 years old. Police were never able to locate her living or dead, and no one has heard a word from her since June 24, 2002
Unknown Speaker 1:27
unfortunately, Sabrina may call her is part of that 1%
Unknown Speaker 1:32
so can I ask you a question? Absolutely, dive in. So I know that there's, you know we're talking about, like mid open, open cases. So imagine, I imagine that there's a lot that maybe have just gone unreported as well. So that number seems high, but then the rate in, you know, per, you know, per capita, or whatever is lower, but you know, there's probably, you know, a lot of people missing that have just not been reported missing, absolutely no case on them. And to talk about that,
Unknown Speaker 2:10
a couple months ago, a family member reached out specifically to me because I'm friends with her on Facebook, and she said, Hey, I have a cousin who's missing. Would you be willing to talk to his family? And I believe you and me and someone else from the podcast were talking to them, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't reported missing, and they were trying to solve this on their own, and it went back and forth like half the family thought that he willingly stepped away, whereas the other part was really, really worried and wanted to find him.
Unknown Speaker 2:44
So I absolutely think there's a decent percentage of people that are just not reported, right? Or are just considered they're adults. They can leave if they want to. So, you know, maybe law enforcement just doesn't take it any further, exactly?
Unknown Speaker 3:03
Well, this case takes us to Erie, Pennsylvania. Erie is the fifth largest city in PA and it's actually hilarious that we're talking about it, because I was looking at a tick tock today, and it was like the worst places to live in Pennsylvania, and Erie was number one
Unknown Speaker 3:20
because of, like, the three feet of snow they got dumped on this past week. Oh, I saw that. I saw that it got up to four feet some places. Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't know that you could give me free property to live in that kind of snow. Not at all. Nope.
Unknown Speaker 3:39
So one of the reasons why it gets so much snow is because it is a port on the Great Lakes, and it's the only port in Pennsylvania on the Great Lakes.
Unknown Speaker 3:51
It is situated on the west side of Pennsylvania and right along Lake Erie in the north, and I'm pretty sure you can deduce where the city name came from,
Unknown Speaker 4:01
Sabrina Kahler grew up in Erie with her blended family. She was the baby of seven kids. Now talk about a big family.
Unknown Speaker 4:11
That is not that common nowadays, especially with how expensive everything is exactly.
Unknown Speaker 4:19
Sabrina had complications at birth due to lung issues. At times, she would need to be resuscitated due to these issues with the lack of oxygen, her brain suffered. I couldn't find an exact diagnosis that her family would provide. And really, if you think about it, at that time, it really wasn't that common like to have diagnosis. I mean, it it was just over 20 years ago, but so much has changed just within like, the last 10 to 15 years for special needs, right?
Unknown Speaker 4:51
So the family kind of chalked it up to her having developmental delays, and that's what they left it at. Nowadays.
Unknown Speaker 5:00
As doctors would have called What happened birth asphyxia, which literally means lack of oxygen and blood flow to the brain. It causes mild to severe conditions in babies, and these conditions follow the person into adulthood. So with lack of oxygen, there could be brain damage, organ damage, physical and mental deficits such as cerebral palsy or even schizophrenia. And it is estimated that there is a 15.1% chance of a child to experience birth asphyxia, which kind of blows my mind as a high percentage, yeah, and that's in general, like across everywhere, just for women in general.
Unknown Speaker 5:40
So there are so many factors which could cause birth asphyxia, such as preterm birth, apparently, having a child over 35 years of age, sometimes it happens when the umbilical cord wraps around the baby's head. I mean, there's a ton, right? And this is just to give some background, so we're going to jump back to the case, and it just kind of gives you a glimpse of how the lack of oxygen could have affected Sabrina in her life.
Unknown Speaker 6:05
Now, even with her challenges, Sabrina's family said she was very friendly and did decent in school. Obviously, she did need some supports in school, but I never could really like dive deep into what those supports look like. So Sabrina graduated from East High School in 2001
Unknown Speaker 6:23
and at this time, her family associated her IQ as being on a level of a 14 year old.
Unknown Speaker 6:29
That being said, she was living with her parents after graduation, which kind of makes sense, and her boyfriend was also living with them. So it was her, boyfriend and her mother. Now we are particularly interested in the day of June 24, 2002
Unknown Speaker 6:48
that morning, Sabrina was visited by a man named David heck, who was friends with her boyfriend, Chris. And I thought it was confusing. I couldn't figure out if he had swung by specifically to see Chris. And Chris wasn't there, so he kind of was talking with Sabrina, or if he specifically went to the house to see Sabrina,
Unknown Speaker 7:08
it just, I don't know, I couldn't figure it out. And for me, I think that's important. But anyway,
Unknown Speaker 7:14
they were talking, and David invited Sabrina out, what she readily agreed to. You know, really friendly, love being around people. I'm sure she'd rather go out with someone than sit alone in the house because no one else was there, and David wanted to take Sabrina to a local swimming spot. And like, side note for me, like, when I grew up, I lived near St Pete in Pottstown. If you don't know, you should know, because it's wonderful. But, um, it was everyone's favorite spot to swim for free. And getting invited to a local swim sounds like dope as
. Like, I can see why she jumped on it and why there was no like, hesitation, even, even if she wasn't special needs, right? And at the time, phones really weren't a thing. Like, I don't remember having a smartphone until way past high school, and that was past 2009 so she didn't have a cell phone, and Sabrina left a note for her family, making them aware of where she was planning to go and planning to be back, which I thought, for being developmentally delayed, is such an independent, responsible thing to do,
Unknown Speaker 8:20
right? Right? I agree.
Unknown Speaker 8:24
And a neighbor did confirm that they saw Sabrina again to David's 1991 Chevrolet blazer.
Unknown Speaker 8:31
They did get to the swimming hole, and everything appeared to be fine by other attendees when they got there about 30 minutes into their day, a group of people and a decent group like over 12 people showed up, and it included
Unknown Speaker 8:48
one of David's ex girlfriends, and she did not seem very happy.
Unknown Speaker 8:55
Apparently, a verbal altercation occurred, and from the articles, it seems like David and Sabrina left the swimming hole, and they stopped at an ice cream stand called the tasty twist, which wasn't too far from the swimming spot.
Unknown Speaker 9:09
There, they kind of regrouped. David made the decision to call the police regarding the altercation, and I thought this next
Unknown Speaker 9:18
part was just so strange. A state trooper did respond to this call, and according to the articles that I could find, he helped escort David and Sabrina back to his ex girlfriend to hand over a pair of pants.
Unknown Speaker 9:35
Where did the pants come from? I'm not really sure, from what I could see and like, reading on Reddit and like, kind of alluding to in the articles, like, David and his ex had an altercation day prior as well, and I'm not sure she, like, just really wanted her pants back. I'm not really sure. I mean, what pair of pants would I be willing to fight for? Like, is it worth it for a pair of pants?
Unknown Speaker 10:00
Yes, yeah. Would think not. I just thought that was, mean, really weird. That is weird. And like, as a police state trooper, is that really what you're spending your time doing, making sure a pair of pants are delivered safely? Yeah, yeah, and
Unknown Speaker 10:20
yeah, I'm, I'm just a little befuddled. Yeah, this is very off.
Unknown Speaker 10:29
It's weird, yeah, so this would be the last confirmed sighting of Sabrina.
Unknown Speaker 10:35
The Note that Sabrina left for her family stated she would be home around 4pm
Unknown Speaker 10:40
that afternoon yet, 4pm came and went. Then a day went by, and then another one. I mean, we just talked about how some cases don't get reported.
Unknown Speaker 10:52
The second day the family decided to formally create a missing persons report.
Unknown Speaker 10:58
And I'm just kind of surprised, two full days for a child that you consider
Unknown Speaker 11:05
registering as a 14 year old. I mean, right, do we leave 14 year old home alone? I mean, not home alone, but like out to do whatever they want for two days? No,
Unknown Speaker 11:19
I just don't know. I just don't know how they thought it was okay. I don't know why they'd wait.
Unknown Speaker 11:24
And just to kind of go back to the last confirmed sighting, so we're talking about at the swimming hole, with the state trooper, with David, with the X like, do do we know?
Unknown Speaker 11:43
Like, did she leave with David? Did she leave on her own? Like she did leave with David? Okay, she did. I'm sorry if I'm getting ahead of it, but no, I'll get just
Unknown Speaker 11:55
all good, great question.
Unknown Speaker 11:58
You know, talking about, like, even though she's older, and I'm sure they wanted to give her independence, I have a 13 and a half year old, and he, like, doesn't get to leave my sight. Like, if there's five minutes, I have questions. Now, granted, there is a 20 year ish difference, but like, still, I feel like in the early 2000s people were pretty cautious after like, the 80s and the 90s and all the crazy that went down. Yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 12:28
So needless to say, David was on the top of the list of people to talk to, because obviously he spent the day with Sabrina,
Unknown Speaker 12:39
and
Unknown Speaker 12:42
he alleged that he took Sabrina to a local movie theater and gave her money to see Lilo and Stitch.
Unknown Speaker 12:50
Apparently she had been dying to see this movie.
Unknown Speaker 12:54
So police obviously had to take a deeper look into who David was and into his alibi and everything. And it turned out that at the time, David was on parole for previous time, sir, for an assault of a minor, corruption of minors and indecent exposure. Well, that's
Unknown Speaker 13:12
pretty awful. Yeah. Doesn't make you feel very warm and fuzzy inside. No, no, no. Like the back of the hair on the back of my neck just stood up. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 13:23
It also came out that Sabrina's boyfriend had allegedly been convicted of salt as well.
Unknown Speaker 13:30
Yeah, and I feel like the parents probably would, well, the mom probably wouldn't have let him stay there if she probably would have known that. She probably also wouldn't let her daughter associate with these people, if she would have known any of this,
Unknown Speaker 13:44
I agree I would not have either. I mean, there's there's giving people a second chance, but you know, you have to take all the facts into consideration, specifically the intellectual level of Sabrina, exactly so.
Unknown Speaker 14:02
And I said this before, in other cases that we've done with people with disabilities, and you probably notice I do a lot of them because I was almost disabilities.
Unknown Speaker 14:14
Sometimes I think that especially women, when older men are dating younger women, especially when they're disabled, it's because they're more vulnerable and naive, like I have a feeling that these men have assault charges against them because women their age, who are of sound mind, don't want to be with them, and they force it. But when they find somebody who is younger, naive or special needs and or disabilities, and they're not able to comprehend that aspect of them. It's like a form manipulation in my mind. Yes, now I agree with you,
Unknown Speaker 14:56
so I feel pretty gross about both these men at this point. I.
Unknown Speaker 15:00
Yeah, they're pretty Yes. So the police did look into Chris. He had an alibi. He was donating plasma, plasma to earn money to take Sabrina to the movies. Like I said, she really wanted to see Lilo and Stitch, but I couldn't find if they ever 100% ruled him out. Like, if that was like a factual alibi, like, just because he said he did that, did it court? I mean, did he do it all day? There's no way it's like three four hours and like a whole entire afternoon is unaccounted for. Correct? Yeah, no, it doesn't, I don't think it takes that long to do. You know, aside from a donation that requires major surgery, like blood plasma, you know, other bodily fluids you know, wouldn't take that long exactly. So as for David, he refused to talk to police in person. He would really only hold a conversation over the phone. But that did not last long, because they arrested him for a parole violation, and he had zero choice but to talk to them. I'm pretty sure that they was able to yank him because of a burglary.
Unknown Speaker 16:06
Good, yep, sounds like a great guy. So this case had very little information for the authorities to kind of dig into. And honestly, you hear it all the time, like, if you're not far within 48 hours, like, information diminishes pretty fast, and we're already, like, at 48 hours by the time the police even get on to this. That's why it is so
Unknown Speaker 16:32
important and instrumental. If someone's missing, just create a report and if they show up, like, the next minute. Okay, well, that's great. I mean, right, it's just important,
Unknown Speaker 16:45
absolutely, this is an older case. Don't have to tell you. I found, like, a lot of articles that were posted earlier on were kind of like websites not found, Content not available.
Unknown Speaker 16:59
I have noticed, not with just this case, but older cases. People create these, like subreddits about, you know, missing people or true crime cases, and they literally copy and paste from articles because smaller
Unknown Speaker 17:15
news publishing places
Unknown Speaker 17:19
they go under they change hands the articles no longer are existing what have you. So I did find some articles on Reddit that I did tag, and they were pulled from other sources.
Unknown Speaker 17:33
Just want to make that clear, in case people want to fight me for information, or where I got my information,
Unknown Speaker 17:39
just giving it there.
Unknown Speaker 17:42
So one of the articles COVID Didn't read, it said that in 2005 a team of investigators, including students in Mercyhurst University's forensic program, scoured an undeveloped, nine acre parcel on upper peach Street in Mill Creek township for Sabrina's remains. After receiving a tip, couldn't find anywhere what the tip was, and nothing ever came from the search. So it's believed and assumed nothing was recovered of Sabrina's at
Unknown Speaker 18:12
all, which we hear this sometimes some people want to be included in it, or there's like people who are psychics and police have to take a tip regardless. So, right, look into it, and honestly, not getting any information and then just getting something I can I could see why,
Unknown Speaker 18:30
right? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 18:32
So almost exactly seven years after Sabrina disappeared, her mother, suburb was fighting to declare Sabrina dead, which could potentially change the course of the investigation. It would move it from a missing person to a presumed dead person, and it would kind of change their investigation tactics. At least you'd think
Unknown Speaker 18:52
Sue was hopeful by pursuing the death certificate, someone might come forward with information. Obviously, when you're doing this. It's coming up in the media, in the public, and maybe someone remembers something that didn't seem important back then, or maybe
Unknown Speaker 19:11
friendships or relationships change, and someone might not be as willing to hold information anything she would be, just guilt, exactly. I mean, Gil is a heavy ditch. Yeah, it is.
Unknown Speaker 19:26
She was quoted as saying, it is kind of my last ditch search to find the means to bring a person forward. There are a lot of mixed emotions. The not knowing is the hardest thing to take. That same year, Sue went to a treat held by project Jason, it was specifically for families that had a missing person. And being the first retreat, there was only 20 people, but Sue made the trip out to Amha Nebraska to attend. And according to an article, they discussed coping skills and other topics, because I'm sure it's not easy having a missing.
Unknown Speaker 20:00
Child and not knowing where they are, or missing person in general? Yes, I'm just glad that there are programs out there to help support families, because that's what they need. Yeah, you really need the like the I guess, that camaraderie of people that are in a similar position, and can kind of empathize with your with what you're going through, because, you know, maybe you have, you know, a good network of friends, but they're they don't have the same feelings and the same experiences that you do. So it's really important for people to have that exactly, totally reminded people
Unknown Speaker 20:46
totally agree.
Unknown Speaker 20:48
At the end of 2021 there was a new age progression photo of Sabrina that was released. And then there was another age progression photo released mid 2023 we will link both of them on our website. In 2022 Sue reached out to Erie County. Da Elizabeth hers about her daughter. The DA 's office posted photos of Sabrina and information about the case on their website. Again, pushing this out there. Maybe someone who's never seen it before comes across it.
Unknown Speaker 21:18
The goal of the family is to try to, like, purge out some type of answer from somebody right? The DA also had said in an article that there are billboards around the city that I'm assuming was donated by Lamar advertising, because she said that it was due to their generosity. So I'm assuming that they provide that for free, which is wonderful. That is then in 2024 there was a short, I mean, short, we're talking five minute two part series regarding Sabrina's case, which something is better than nothing. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, it was stated that there is a cold case unit in Erie that is working on the case and that is still considered active. The lead detective said that he has re interviewed the persons of interest, and is hoping to interview people that had never originally been interviewed at the time of the of the disappearance, if you will. I am really hopeful that this cold case unit can bring closure to this family that has been waiting over 22 years for answers, and you can still see that they are in the fight trying to get answers. So I have a question about the interviewing, because I know they, you know they, they talk to the boyfriend, Chris, they talk to David. Did they talk to
Unknown Speaker 22:41
to his ex, the one that had started the issues, that's the thing I know, and the one with the pants, I don't think so. I feel like I couldn't find anything in any articles and in all the subreddits that I was reading, like everyone was like, they should at least talk to her to see what kind of person David was as, like a lover, or just to see what her alibi was. So I'm not 100% sure it could have happened and they didn't release anything, but if they didn't, they definitely should, absolutely, yeah, like, honestly, like, I feel that maybe they could have been in on it together, yeah, you know, there's that, you know, the those, those relationships that are just combative, and, you know, or she could, you know, she could have followed them. They could have, you know, conspired, you know, what have you,
Unknown Speaker 23:35
and you know, caused this, this poor woman's, you know, disappearance, you know, yes, maybe, maybe yeah, like, you know. Well, we will definitely talk about some theories, because there are theories. There's definitely All right, good, a lot of them for all missing persons cases. I think we do this for everyone. Sabrina was 20 years old at the time of her disappearance. Today, she would be 46 years old. She was five feet two inches and weighed roughly 130 pounds. She was a white female with dark blonde hair, blue eyes. She had braces on at the time, and her ears are pierced. Her nickname was Bree and at the time of her disappearance, she had a two piece bathing suit, a pink or red top blue shorts and blue and white sneakers. If anyone has any information regarding this case, please contact Detective Sergeant Bogart at the Erie police department at 814-870-1258,
Unknown Speaker 24:37
again, 814-870-1258,
Unknown Speaker 24:41
or you can email s, Bogart, So, S, B, O, G, A, R, [email protected]
Unknown Speaker 24:53
you can also anonymously contact PA, Crime Stoppers toll.
Unknown Speaker 25:00
Free at one 804 pa tips, there is a 5000 cash reward if information provided leads to an arrest in solving the case or locating the missing person.
Unknown Speaker 25:13
Now we're gonna go into three theories, and there's plenty more. So if you're interested. Look at the subreddits. There's a ton of them. A lot of people aren't interested. And it seems like one person, in particularly, who comments on almost every
Unknown Speaker 25:31
you know thread I've seen on this seems like he has a lot more information than most. So I'm interested to know how he is.
Unknown Speaker 25:39
Part of it honestly interesting. It is suggested that David's EX had something to do with it. Obviously, yes, the police officer saw her leaving this
Unknown Speaker 25:55
swim hole, destination of eerie, if you will, doesn't mean she didn't circle back. I mean, it's not like he was following her. Like, I'm sure he had other things to do. And
Unknown Speaker 26:09
did she follow them? Did she do something and then David helped her, like, clean it up? Or did David really drop her off at the movies and this x make a move. The thing is, I feel for women, without looking at statistics, they're more like
Unknown Speaker 26:32
in the moment. They don't plan out a well executed plan, and if she did it, I mean, 130 pounds doesn't seem that heavy. But when you're dead weight, that's pretty freaking heavy, where are you hiding the body, right? And like to dig a hole. Like, I don't think people can comprehend how much that takes. And it really like not to laugh or, like, make it a light subject, but when I think about it, and like, I try to, like, explain it, the thing that comes to mind is that piece of that had the restaurant down the street who tried to hide Jennifer Brown's body, and he couldn't even make even a half ditch attempt at a grave. He didn't even make it halfway down. He just threw boards over her. Because I don't think people realize it's a to dig a hole. Yeah, absolutely. And we really, PA, so it's all clay. Yeah, secretaries have, you know, back holes, back hoes and exactly, and like you,
Unknown Speaker 27:33
I don't know, digging a hole, you're going to be doing it for a hell of a long time. That's why I feel people get so creative. Not to say that it's a good thing. But you can't tell me that people don't get creative on ways that they try to dispose bodies. I mean, right? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 27:50
I get bored after 15 minutes of pulling weeds in my yard. Like I certainly do not want to be spending hours digging up, digging a hole exactly. You know, it's just, it's just, it's too much. The only thing I could possibly think if David wasn't included in this, was that the people she was with, like about 15 other people in this, like crowd of people that had the altercation with David and Sabrina, is that maybe one of them helped her somehow?
Unknown Speaker 28:22
Yeah, did she have some a group of friends there that she was able to manipulate an egg on? Yeah, but it's, I mean, we've talked about this before. We actually talked about it in one of our solved cases, which also happened to cover a special needs woman. How do you convince multiple people to commit an atrocious crime. How is it possible?
Unknown Speaker 28:48
I remember from that solved case. It's a wonderful case. You should listen to it. Highly suggest it anyway.
Unknown Speaker 28:54
The woman of the sister of the victim, said, I can't even get five of my friends to commit to a dinner. How do you get five people to commend murder? Yes, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 29:05
you you have to know your audience. You need to know the like, what you can prey upon, yep, in order to manipulate them. You know, are they outcasts, looking for belonging? You know. Are they? You know, are they just highly suggestible? Yep.
Unknown Speaker 29:26
So there are questions about the ex, and I really want to know if she was question, what she said during questioning, if she had an alibi? What about the other people that that were there? I mean, 15 people getting them all to say the same thing, like,
Unknown Speaker 29:45
yeah, unless what happened was real, I'm sure there's got to be inconsistencies. Gotta be Oh, 100%
Unknown Speaker 29:54
so that is, like one of the top ones. It was the X. Now we're gonna move to David. I'm.
Unknown Speaker 30:00
And I mean, it ain't looking good for this guy either. No, um, authorities thought he was lying during his interview. They just did not believe what he was telling them,
Unknown Speaker 30:12
and it's clearly obvious they did not have enough evidence. Obviously, he wasn't charged, and Sabrina was never found. Six years after Sabrina's disappearance, David was caught in an insurance fraud scheme, which proved to investigators that he would lie to get out of trouble, so they didn't put it past him about lying to people. So basically,
Unknown Speaker 30:35
according to an article in go eerie, David got into a car accident and he had let his insurance lapse directly after the accident, he called GEICO to reinstate his insurance.
Unknown Speaker 30:47
The next day after his insurance had been reinstated, he called back to report the accident the day prior, though he lied about the time of the accident, and I'm like, shocked and stunned, because this must be the dumbest I've ever met. There were police who responded to that accident who had an official report. Sake, yeah, he's dumb, yeah, like, criminal. What? What? I just don't get it. Obviously the formal report contradicted the story. And obviously GEICO requested it,
Unknown Speaker 31:19
of course, so he got caught there, and it just kind of pointed to the authorities, like, this is not a very truthful man. He already has, like, a criminal background, and I mean, through the years since Sabrina's disappearance, he hasn't been squeaky clean, if you will.
Unknown Speaker 31:36
The thing that comes to my mind, if David possibly, like, did it? The thing that I could think would go wrong was he tried to make a move, yeah, and she said, No either one, because she didn't want to have moves made on her. Or two. She has a boyfriend that she was, you know, truthful to, and he couldn't stand rejection. And no one likes rejection more than men,
Unknown Speaker 32:06
right? Especially when they're expecting to get sexual
Unknown Speaker 32:12
anything. It's like a huge hit. So that's the only thing that I could really think, because it seems like the day seemingly went fine, and then it just wasn't right, you know what I mean. So it's like something had to have happened, or some Reddit user suggested that maybe David wanted to get back with his ex, and his ex seeing him with Sabrina ruin things, and he had a hot temper, and maybe just made, like a split decision, split second decision, and
Unknown Speaker 32:42
killed her. Some think that it was just an accident, but even still, like, Where do you hide a body for that freaking long? Like, these aren't smart people. Yeah, I I just can't,
Unknown Speaker 32:58
and it's so frustrating, especially since, like, I know around here it gets built up, but I know for a fact Erie is also, like, pretty getting built up. It's a pretty big city. I believe I, you know, I think it's up there, like the third biggest city. I think
Unknown Speaker 33:15
where is she? What happened to her? And I also want to know, like, sometimes you on like the Charlie project, or nemus, or any of those types of things. You can see if they have, like, dental work or if they have DNA supplied by the family, it doesn't say anything, but I hope they do, especially since, like earlier in the episode, I mentioned that there's so many unidentified people within PA, yeah, yes. So David is also up there as being a suspect,
Unknown Speaker 33:48
and then you have
Unknown Speaker 33:51
more theories. The one that is kind of gets bunched together is David and the ex did it together that maybe they are just two sick people. They had weird fantasy. We've heard it before. We've covered cases of couples wanting to kill together.
Unknown Speaker 34:08
And maybe, maybe it wasn't that. Maybe the ex was, like, super jealous and wanted to prove a point, and David just wanted to prove to her that he wasn't into her, so he committed this crime. I mean, you read 1000 different things, they spend it 1000 different ways, but it suggested that together, they committed this crime. I think it's more likely
Unknown Speaker 34:30
for crimes of people who disappeared to get rid of the body. It takes more than one person. It has to I was just going to say the same thing,
Unknown Speaker 34:38
and I really want to know if his car was looked at, if there was blood in the car. She was obviously in it. There was a witness that said it like, I just don't get it. Did he recently clean his car? Did he recently get like, new parts? Like, you know that those types of things that you think about, yes, and I don't know, I want to know if, like, the police really took its ear.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
When they first reported her, because she was not a minor at that point, but she was special needs, so, like, I don't know,
Unknown Speaker 35:08
think there's cases they should be treated as a minor. Absolutely, you know, 100% agree, because it doesn't matter how old physically you are, or based off the calendar, if you are not intellectually matched up with that Exactly, exactly. So I do have a lot of questions. I wish I'd put out more information, but at least there's hope, knowing that the Erie police have a cold case and that they are putting effort into it. I mean, the little shorts that they put together was recent. It was just this year. And cold cases, unfortunately, move a lot slower than newer cases. These cases have been sitting around. The resources aren't there.
Unknown Speaker 35:54
I mean, I'm sure I'm telling you things that you already know, but the thing is, hopefully the family can get some type of closure, and some type of, you know,
Unknown Speaker 36:04
something at least, can find a body,
Unknown Speaker 36:08
but then, I don't know, it's like, hard. Like, do you want them to have someone come up and tell them what happened and then they find the body? Or do you want them to find the body and then have to figure out who did it? I mean, sometimes finding the body doesn't always bring closure, because then you have the question, then you have the question like, how, how did it end up here? Right?
Unknown Speaker 36:27
You know the how? You don't know the who or the why? Yeah, so I feel like it's like a double edged sword, and it's just I feel so bad for the family. I always feel bad for the family. I can't even comprehend what they go through. And I really hope that
Unknown Speaker 36:42
Sabrina is able to be found and they get some type of closure. Yes, me too. And with that, I hope you guys have a wonderful night.
Unknown Speaker 36:52
Bye,
Unknown Speaker 36:54
that's all we have for this episode of Keystone cold cases podcast. Thank you so much for listening, and please consider leaving us a review wherever you get your podcast, if you want to find out more about the podcast, the host and the cases you cover, or if you want to suggest a case, please visit us at KCC pod.com or send us an email at keystonecold [email protected]
Unknown Speaker 37:16
you can also follow us on Facebook at Keystone cold cases and On Instagram or Tiktok at KCC pod, please remember never to reach out to family or friends of the victims, only to law enforcement. If you have any tips. This episode was researched and hosted by me Chelsea. Find all of our sources social information and contact information at KCC pod. Theme Music by Darren Megan and production assistance from Shannon bibble, join us again next week for another case to salute out you.
You're listening to Keystone cold cases, a podcast where we reignite cold cases across Pennsylvania.
Unknown Speaker 0:18
Hey, it's Shannon. Hey, it's Chelsea, and today, we are going to cover a missing persons case. And I was kind of looking up statistics. And according to world population review, this year in Pennsylvania, there are 504 open missing person cases and 325
Unknown Speaker 0:37
unidentified people, which is kind of like astonishing. I mean, that's a staggering number, right? Yeah, that's a lot. But if you actually look at it, the rate is really only 3.9 per 100,000
Unknown Speaker 0:53
which kind of puts it more in perspective. And that's kind of low according to name us. Most cases are resolved, and the percentage that aren't is under 1% which also seems pretty low.
Unknown Speaker 1:07
The people that are found were either lost, they made the conscious decision to step away, or they were taken now the case we are covering today is over 20 years old. Police were never able to locate her living or dead, and no one has heard a word from her since June 24, 2002
Unknown Speaker 1:27
unfortunately, Sabrina may call her is part of that 1%
Unknown Speaker 1:32
so can I ask you a question? Absolutely, dive in. So I know that there's, you know we're talking about, like mid open, open cases. So imagine, I imagine that there's a lot that maybe have just gone unreported as well. So that number seems high, but then the rate in, you know, per, you know, per capita, or whatever is lower, but you know, there's probably, you know, a lot of people missing that have just not been reported missing, absolutely no case on them. And to talk about that,
Unknown Speaker 2:10
a couple months ago, a family member reached out specifically to me because I'm friends with her on Facebook, and she said, Hey, I have a cousin who's missing. Would you be willing to talk to his family? And I believe you and me and someone else from the podcast were talking to them, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't reported missing, and they were trying to solve this on their own, and it went back and forth like half the family thought that he willingly stepped away, whereas the other part was really, really worried and wanted to find him.
Unknown Speaker 2:44
So I absolutely think there's a decent percentage of people that are just not reported, right? Or are just considered they're adults. They can leave if they want to. So, you know, maybe law enforcement just doesn't take it any further, exactly?
Unknown Speaker 3:03
Well, this case takes us to Erie, Pennsylvania. Erie is the fifth largest city in PA and it's actually hilarious that we're talking about it, because I was looking at a tick tock today, and it was like the worst places to live in Pennsylvania, and Erie was number one
Unknown Speaker 3:20
because of, like, the three feet of snow they got dumped on this past week. Oh, I saw that. I saw that it got up to four feet some places. Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't know that you could give me free property to live in that kind of snow. Not at all. Nope.
Unknown Speaker 3:39
So one of the reasons why it gets so much snow is because it is a port on the Great Lakes, and it's the only port in Pennsylvania on the Great Lakes.
Unknown Speaker 3:51
It is situated on the west side of Pennsylvania and right along Lake Erie in the north, and I'm pretty sure you can deduce where the city name came from,
Unknown Speaker 4:01
Sabrina Kahler grew up in Erie with her blended family. She was the baby of seven kids. Now talk about a big family.
Unknown Speaker 4:11
That is not that common nowadays, especially with how expensive everything is exactly.
Unknown Speaker 4:19
Sabrina had complications at birth due to lung issues. At times, she would need to be resuscitated due to these issues with the lack of oxygen, her brain suffered. I couldn't find an exact diagnosis that her family would provide. And really, if you think about it, at that time, it really wasn't that common like to have diagnosis. I mean, it it was just over 20 years ago, but so much has changed just within like, the last 10 to 15 years for special needs, right?
Unknown Speaker 4:51
So the family kind of chalked it up to her having developmental delays, and that's what they left it at. Nowadays.
Unknown Speaker 5:00
As doctors would have called What happened birth asphyxia, which literally means lack of oxygen and blood flow to the brain. It causes mild to severe conditions in babies, and these conditions follow the person into adulthood. So with lack of oxygen, there could be brain damage, organ damage, physical and mental deficits such as cerebral palsy or even schizophrenia. And it is estimated that there is a 15.1% chance of a child to experience birth asphyxia, which kind of blows my mind as a high percentage, yeah, and that's in general, like across everywhere, just for women in general.
Unknown Speaker 5:40
So there are so many factors which could cause birth asphyxia, such as preterm birth, apparently, having a child over 35 years of age, sometimes it happens when the umbilical cord wraps around the baby's head. I mean, there's a ton, right? And this is just to give some background, so we're going to jump back to the case, and it just kind of gives you a glimpse of how the lack of oxygen could have affected Sabrina in her life.
Unknown Speaker 6:05
Now, even with her challenges, Sabrina's family said she was very friendly and did decent in school. Obviously, she did need some supports in school, but I never could really like dive deep into what those supports look like. So Sabrina graduated from East High School in 2001
Unknown Speaker 6:23
and at this time, her family associated her IQ as being on a level of a 14 year old.
Unknown Speaker 6:29
That being said, she was living with her parents after graduation, which kind of makes sense, and her boyfriend was also living with them. So it was her, boyfriend and her mother. Now we are particularly interested in the day of June 24, 2002
Unknown Speaker 6:48
that morning, Sabrina was visited by a man named David heck, who was friends with her boyfriend, Chris. And I thought it was confusing. I couldn't figure out if he had swung by specifically to see Chris. And Chris wasn't there, so he kind of was talking with Sabrina, or if he specifically went to the house to see Sabrina,
Unknown Speaker 7:08
it just, I don't know, I couldn't figure it out. And for me, I think that's important. But anyway,
Unknown Speaker 7:14
they were talking, and David invited Sabrina out, what she readily agreed to. You know, really friendly, love being around people. I'm sure she'd rather go out with someone than sit alone in the house because no one else was there, and David wanted to take Sabrina to a local swimming spot. And like, side note for me, like, when I grew up, I lived near St Pete in Pottstown. If you don't know, you should know, because it's wonderful. But, um, it was everyone's favorite spot to swim for free. And getting invited to a local swim sounds like dope as
. Like, I can see why she jumped on it and why there was no like, hesitation, even, even if she wasn't special needs, right? And at the time, phones really weren't a thing. Like, I don't remember having a smartphone until way past high school, and that was past 2009 so she didn't have a cell phone, and Sabrina left a note for her family, making them aware of where she was planning to go and planning to be back, which I thought, for being developmentally delayed, is such an independent, responsible thing to do,Unknown Speaker 8:20
right? Right? I agree.
Unknown Speaker 8:24
And a neighbor did confirm that they saw Sabrina again to David's 1991 Chevrolet blazer.
Unknown Speaker 8:31
They did get to the swimming hole, and everything appeared to be fine by other attendees when they got there about 30 minutes into their day, a group of people and a decent group like over 12 people showed up, and it included
Unknown Speaker 8:48
one of David's ex girlfriends, and she did not seem very happy.
Unknown Speaker 8:55
Apparently, a verbal altercation occurred, and from the articles, it seems like David and Sabrina left the swimming hole, and they stopped at an ice cream stand called the tasty twist, which wasn't too far from the swimming spot.
Unknown Speaker 9:09
There, they kind of regrouped. David made the decision to call the police regarding the altercation, and I thought this next
Unknown Speaker 9:18
part was just so strange. A state trooper did respond to this call, and according to the articles that I could find, he helped escort David and Sabrina back to his ex girlfriend to hand over a pair of pants.
Unknown Speaker 9:35
Where did the pants come from? I'm not really sure, from what I could see and like, reading on Reddit and like, kind of alluding to in the articles, like, David and his ex had an altercation day prior as well, and I'm not sure she, like, just really wanted her pants back. I'm not really sure. I mean, what pair of pants would I be willing to fight for? Like, is it worth it for a pair of pants?
Unknown Speaker 10:00
Yes, yeah. Would think not. I just thought that was, mean, really weird. That is weird. And like, as a police state trooper, is that really what you're spending your time doing, making sure a pair of pants are delivered safely? Yeah, yeah, and
Unknown Speaker 10:20
yeah, I'm, I'm just a little befuddled. Yeah, this is very off.
Unknown Speaker 10:29
It's weird, yeah, so this would be the last confirmed sighting of Sabrina.
Unknown Speaker 10:35
The Note that Sabrina left for her family stated she would be home around 4pm
Unknown Speaker 10:40
that afternoon yet, 4pm came and went. Then a day went by, and then another one. I mean, we just talked about how some cases don't get reported.
Unknown Speaker 10:52
The second day the family decided to formally create a missing persons report.
Unknown Speaker 10:58
And I'm just kind of surprised, two full days for a child that you consider
Unknown Speaker 11:05
registering as a 14 year old. I mean, right, do we leave 14 year old home alone? I mean, not home alone, but like out to do whatever they want for two days? No,
Unknown Speaker 11:19
I just don't know. I just don't know how they thought it was okay. I don't know why they'd wait.
Unknown Speaker 11:24
And just to kind of go back to the last confirmed sighting, so we're talking about at the swimming hole, with the state trooper, with David, with the X like, do do we know?
Unknown Speaker 11:43
Like, did she leave with David? Did she leave on her own? Like she did leave with David? Okay, she did. I'm sorry if I'm getting ahead of it, but no, I'll get just
Unknown Speaker 11:55
all good, great question.
Unknown Speaker 11:58
You know, talking about, like, even though she's older, and I'm sure they wanted to give her independence, I have a 13 and a half year old, and he, like, doesn't get to leave my sight. Like, if there's five minutes, I have questions. Now, granted, there is a 20 year ish difference, but like, still, I feel like in the early 2000s people were pretty cautious after like, the 80s and the 90s and all the crazy
that went down. Yeah, yeah.Unknown Speaker 12:28
So needless to say, David was on the top of the list of people to talk to, because obviously he spent the day with Sabrina,
Unknown Speaker 12:39
and
Unknown Speaker 12:42
he alleged that he took Sabrina to a local movie theater and gave her money to see Lilo and Stitch.
Unknown Speaker 12:50
Apparently she had been dying to see this movie.
Unknown Speaker 12:54
So police obviously had to take a deeper look into who David was and into his alibi and everything. And it turned out that at the time, David was on parole for previous time, sir, for an assault of a minor, corruption of minors and indecent exposure. Well, that's
Unknown Speaker 13:12
pretty awful. Yeah. Doesn't make you feel very warm and fuzzy inside. No, no, no. Like the back of the hair on the back of my neck just stood up. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 13:23
It also came out that Sabrina's boyfriend had allegedly been convicted of salt as well.
Unknown Speaker 13:30
Yeah, and I feel like the parents probably would, well, the mom probably wouldn't have let him stay there if she probably would have known that. She probably also wouldn't let her daughter associate with these people, if she would have known any of this,
Unknown Speaker 13:44
I agree I would not have either. I mean, there's there's giving people a second chance, but you know, you have to take all the facts into consideration, specifically the intellectual level of Sabrina, exactly so.
Unknown Speaker 14:02
And I said this before, in other cases that we've done with people with disabilities, and you probably notice I do a lot of them because I was almost disabilities.
Unknown Speaker 14:14
Sometimes I think that especially women, when older men are dating younger women, especially when they're disabled, it's because they're more vulnerable and naive, like I have a feeling that these men have assault charges against them because women their age, who are of sound mind, don't want to be with them, and they force it. But when they find somebody who is younger, naive or special needs and or disabilities, and they're not able to comprehend that aspect of them. It's like a form manipulation in my mind. Yes, now I agree with you,
Unknown Speaker 14:56
so I feel pretty gross about both these men at this point. I.
Unknown Speaker 15:00
Yeah, they're pretty Yes. So the police did look into Chris. He had an alibi. He was donating plasma, plasma to earn money to take Sabrina to the movies. Like I said, she really wanted to see Lilo and Stitch, but I couldn't find if they ever 100% ruled him out. Like, if that was like a factual alibi, like, just because he said he did that, did it court? I mean, did he do it all day? There's no way it's like three four hours and like a whole entire afternoon is unaccounted for. Correct? Yeah, no, it doesn't, I don't think it takes that long to do. You know, aside from a donation that requires major surgery, like blood plasma, you know, other bodily fluids you know, wouldn't take that long exactly. So as for David, he refused to talk to police in person. He would really only hold a conversation over the phone. But that did not last long, because they arrested him for a parole violation, and he had zero choice but to talk to them. I'm pretty sure that they was able to yank him because of a burglary.
Unknown Speaker 16:06
Good, yep, sounds like a great guy. So this case had very little information for the authorities to kind of dig into. And honestly, you hear it all the time, like, if you're not far within 48 hours, like, information diminishes pretty fast, and we're already, like, at 48 hours by the time the police even get on to this. That's why it is so
Unknown Speaker 16:32
important and instrumental. If someone's missing, just create a report and if they show up, like, the next minute. Okay, well, that's great. I mean, right, it's just important,
Unknown Speaker 16:45
absolutely, this is an older case. Don't have to tell you. I found, like, a lot of articles that were posted earlier on were kind of like websites not found, Content not available.
Unknown Speaker 16:59
I have noticed, not with just this case, but older cases. People create these, like subreddits about, you know, missing people or true crime cases, and they literally copy and paste from articles because smaller
Unknown Speaker 17:15
news publishing places
Unknown Speaker 17:19
they go under they change hands the articles no longer are existing what have you. So I did find some articles on Reddit that I did tag, and they were pulled from other sources.
Unknown Speaker 17:33
Just want to make that clear, in case people want to fight me for information, or where I got my information,
Unknown Speaker 17:39
just giving it there.
Unknown Speaker 17:42
So one of the articles COVID Didn't read, it said that in 2005 a team of investigators, including students in Mercyhurst University's forensic program, scoured an undeveloped, nine acre parcel on upper peach Street in Mill Creek township for Sabrina's remains. After receiving a tip, couldn't find anywhere what the tip was, and nothing ever came from the search. So it's believed and assumed nothing was recovered of Sabrina's at
Unknown Speaker 18:12
all, which we hear this sometimes some people want to be included in it, or there's like people who are psychics and police have to take a tip regardless. So, right, look into it, and honestly, not getting any information and then just getting something I can I could see why,
Unknown Speaker 18:30
right? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 18:32
So almost exactly seven years after Sabrina disappeared, her mother, suburb was fighting to declare Sabrina dead, which could potentially change the course of the investigation. It would move it from a missing person to a presumed dead person, and it would kind of change their investigation tactics. At least you'd think
Unknown Speaker 18:52
Sue was hopeful by pursuing the death certificate, someone might come forward with information. Obviously, when you're doing this. It's coming up in the media, in the public, and maybe someone remembers something that didn't seem important back then, or maybe
Unknown Speaker 19:11
friendships or relationships change, and someone might not be as willing to hold information anything she would be, just guilt, exactly. I mean, Gil is a heavy ditch. Yeah, it is.
Unknown Speaker 19:26
She was quoted as saying, it is kind of my last ditch search to find the means to bring a person forward. There are a lot of mixed emotions. The not knowing is the hardest thing to take. That same year, Sue went to a treat held by project Jason, it was specifically for families that had a missing person. And being the first retreat, there was only 20 people, but Sue made the trip out to Amha Nebraska to attend. And according to an article, they discussed coping skills and other topics, because I'm sure it's not easy having a missing.
Unknown Speaker 20:00
Child and not knowing where they are, or missing person in general? Yes, I'm just glad that there are programs out there to help support families, because that's what they need. Yeah, you really need the like the I guess, that camaraderie of people that are in a similar position, and can kind of empathize with your with what you're going through, because, you know, maybe you have, you know, a good network of friends, but they're they don't have the same feelings and the same experiences that you do. So it's really important for people to have that exactly, totally reminded people
Unknown Speaker 20:46
totally agree.
Unknown Speaker 20:48
At the end of 2021 there was a new age progression photo of Sabrina that was released. And then there was another age progression photo released mid 2023 we will link both of them on our website. In 2022 Sue reached out to Erie County. Da Elizabeth hers about her daughter. The DA 's office posted photos of Sabrina and information about the case on their website. Again, pushing this out there. Maybe someone who's never seen it before comes across it.
Unknown Speaker 21:18
The goal of the family is to try to, like, purge out some type of answer from somebody right? The DA also had said in an article that there are billboards around the city that I'm assuming was donated by Lamar advertising, because she said that it was due to their generosity. So I'm assuming that they provide that for free, which is wonderful. That is then in 2024 there was a short, I mean, short, we're talking five minute two part series regarding Sabrina's case, which something is better than nothing. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, it was stated that there is a cold case unit in Erie that is working on the case and that is still considered active. The lead detective said that he has re interviewed the persons of interest, and is hoping to interview people that had never originally been interviewed at the time of the of the disappearance, if you will. I am really hopeful that this cold case unit can bring closure to this family that has been waiting over 22 years for answers, and you can still see that they are in the fight trying to get answers. So I have a question about the interviewing, because I know they, you know they, they talk to the boyfriend, Chris, they talk to David. Did they talk to
Unknown Speaker 22:41
to his ex, the one that had started the issues, that's the thing I know, and the one with the pants, I don't think so. I feel like I couldn't find anything in any articles and in all the subreddits that I was reading, like everyone was like, they should at least talk to her to see what kind of person David was as, like a lover, or just to see what her alibi was. So I'm not 100% sure it could have happened and they didn't release anything, but if they didn't, they definitely should, absolutely, yeah, like, honestly, like, I feel that maybe they could have been in on it together, yeah, you know, there's that, you know, the those, those relationships that are just combative, and, you know, or she could, you know, she could have followed them. They could have, you know, conspired, you know, what have you,
Unknown Speaker 23:35
and you know, caused this, this poor woman's, you know, disappearance, you know, yes, maybe, maybe yeah, like, you know. Well, we will definitely talk about some theories, because there are theories. There's definitely All right, good, a lot of them for all missing persons cases. I think we do this for everyone. Sabrina was 20 years old at the time of her disappearance. Today, she would be 46 years old. She was five feet two inches and weighed roughly 130 pounds. She was a white female with dark blonde hair, blue eyes. She had braces on at the time, and her ears are pierced. Her nickname was Bree and at the time of her disappearance, she had a two piece bathing suit, a pink or red top blue shorts and blue and white sneakers. If anyone has any information regarding this case, please contact Detective Sergeant Bogart at the Erie police department at 814-870-1258,
Unknown Speaker 24:37
again, 814-870-1258,
Unknown Speaker 24:41
or you can email s, Bogart, So, S, B, O, G, A, R, [email protected]
Unknown Speaker 24:53
you can also anonymously contact PA, Crime Stoppers toll.
Unknown Speaker 25:00
Free at one 804 pa tips, there is a 5000 cash reward if information provided leads to an arrest in solving the case or locating the missing person.
Unknown Speaker 25:13
Now we're gonna go into three theories, and there's plenty more. So if you're interested. Look at the subreddits. There's a ton of them. A lot of people aren't interested. And it seems like one person, in particularly, who comments on almost every
Unknown Speaker 25:31
you know thread I've seen on this seems like he has a lot more information than most. So I'm interested to know how he is.
Unknown Speaker 25:39
Part of it honestly interesting. It is suggested that David's EX had something to do with it. Obviously, yes, the police officer saw her leaving this
Unknown Speaker 25:55
swim hole, destination of eerie, if you will, doesn't mean she didn't circle back. I mean, it's not like he was following her. Like, I'm sure he had other things to do. And
Unknown Speaker 26:09
did she follow them? Did she do something and then David helped her, like, clean it up? Or did David really drop her off at the movies and this x make a move. The thing is, I feel for women, without looking at statistics, they're more like
Unknown Speaker 26:32
in the moment. They don't plan out a well executed plan, and if she did it, I mean, 130 pounds doesn't seem that heavy. But when you're dead weight, that's pretty freaking heavy, where are you hiding the body, right? And like to dig a hole. Like, I don't think people can comprehend how much that takes. And it really like not to laugh or, like, make it a light subject, but when I think about it, and like, I try to, like, explain it, the thing that comes to mind is that piece of
that had the restaurant down the street who tried to hide Jennifer Brown's body, and he couldn't even make even a half ditch attempt at a grave. He didn't even make it halfway down. He just threw boards over her. Because I don't think people realize it's a to dig a hole. Yeah, absolutely. And we really, PA, so it's all clay. Yeah, secretaries have, you know, back holes, back hoes and exactly, and like you,Unknown Speaker 27:33
I don't know, digging a hole, you're going to be doing it for a hell of a long time. That's why I feel people get so creative. Not to say that it's a good thing. But you can't tell me that people don't get creative on ways that they try to dispose bodies. I mean, right? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 27:50
I get bored after 15 minutes of pulling weeds in my yard. Like I certainly do not want to be spending hours digging up, digging a hole exactly. You know, it's just, it's just, it's too much. The only thing I could possibly think if David wasn't included in this, was that the people she was with, like about 15 other people in this, like crowd of people that had the altercation with David and Sabrina, is that maybe one of them helped her somehow?
Unknown Speaker 28:22
Yeah, did she have some a group of friends there that she was able to manipulate an egg on? Yeah, but it's, I mean, we've talked about this before. We actually talked about it in one of our solved cases, which also happened to cover a special needs woman. How do you convince multiple people to commit an atrocious crime. How is it possible?
Unknown Speaker 28:48
I remember from that solved case. It's a wonderful case. You should listen to it. Highly suggest it anyway.
Unknown Speaker 28:54
The woman of the sister of the victim, said, I can't even get five of my friends to commit to a dinner. How do you get five people to commend murder? Yes, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 29:05
you you have to know your audience. You need to know the like, what you can prey upon, yep, in order to manipulate them. You know, are they outcasts, looking for belonging? You know. Are they? You know, are they just highly suggestible? Yep.
Unknown Speaker 29:26
So there are questions about the ex, and I really want to know if she was question, what she said during questioning, if she had an alibi? What about the other people that that were there? I mean, 15 people getting them all to say the same
thing, like,Unknown Speaker 29:45
yeah, unless what happened was real, I'm sure there's got to be inconsistencies. Gotta be Oh, 100%
Unknown Speaker 29:54
so that is, like one of the top ones. It was the X. Now we're gonna move to David. I'm.
Unknown Speaker 30:00
And I mean, it ain't looking good for this guy either. No, um, authorities thought he was lying during his interview. They just did not believe what he was telling them,
Unknown Speaker 30:12
and it's clearly obvious they did not have enough evidence. Obviously, he wasn't charged, and Sabrina was never found. Six years after Sabrina's disappearance, David was caught in an insurance fraud scheme, which proved to investigators that he would lie to get out of trouble, so they didn't put it past him about lying to people. So basically,
Unknown Speaker 30:35
according to an article in go eerie, David got into a car accident and he had let his insurance lapse directly after the accident, he called GEICO to reinstate his insurance.
Unknown Speaker 30:47
The next day after his insurance had been reinstated, he called back to report the accident the day prior, though he lied about the time of the accident, and I'm like, shocked and stunned, because this must be the dumbest
I've ever met. There were police who responded to that accident who had an official report. Sake, yeah, he's dumb, yeah, like, criminal. What? What? I just don't get it. Obviously the formal report contradicted the story. And obviously GEICO requested it,Unknown Speaker 31:19
of course, so he got caught there, and it just kind of pointed to the authorities, like, this is not a very truthful man. He already has, like, a criminal background, and I mean, through the years since Sabrina's disappearance, he hasn't been squeaky clean, if you will.
Unknown Speaker 31:36
The thing that comes to my mind, if David possibly, like, did it? The thing that I could think would go wrong was he tried to make a move, yeah, and she said, No either one, because she didn't want to have moves made on her. Or two. She has a boyfriend that she was, you know, truthful to, and he couldn't stand rejection. And no one likes rejection more than men,
Unknown Speaker 32:06
right? Especially when they're expecting to get sexual
Unknown Speaker 32:12
anything. It's like a huge hit. So that's the only thing that I could really think, because it seems like the day seemingly went fine, and then it just wasn't right, you know what I mean. So it's like something had to have happened, or some Reddit user suggested that maybe David wanted to get back with his ex, and his ex seeing him with Sabrina ruin things, and he had a hot temper, and maybe just made, like a split decision, split second decision, and
Unknown Speaker 32:42
killed her. Some think that it was just an accident, but even still, like, Where do you hide a body for that freaking long? Like, these aren't smart people. Yeah, I I just can't,
Unknown Speaker 32:58
and it's so frustrating, especially since, like, I know around here it gets built up, but I know for a fact Erie is also, like, pretty getting built up. It's a pretty big city. I believe I, you know, I think it's up there, like the third biggest city. I think
Unknown Speaker 33:15
where is she? What happened to her? And I also want to know, like, sometimes you on like the Charlie project, or nemus, or any of those types of things. You can see if they have, like, dental work or if they have DNA supplied by the family, it doesn't say anything, but I hope they do, especially since, like earlier in the episode, I mentioned that there's so many unidentified people within PA, yeah, yes. So David is also up there as being a suspect,
Unknown Speaker 33:48
and then you have
Unknown Speaker 33:51
more theories. The one that is kind of gets bunched together is David and the ex did it together that maybe they are just two sick people. They had weird fantasy. We've heard it before. We've covered cases of couples wanting to kill together.
Unknown Speaker 34:08
And maybe, maybe it wasn't that. Maybe the ex was, like, super jealous and wanted to prove a point, and David just wanted to prove to her that he wasn't into her, so he committed this crime. I mean, you read 1000 different things, they spend it 1000 different ways, but it suggested that together, they committed this crime. I think it's more likely
Unknown Speaker 34:30
for crimes of people who disappeared to get rid of the body. It takes more than one person. It has to I was just going to say the same thing,
Unknown Speaker 34:38
and I really want to know if his car was looked at, if there was blood in the car. She was obviously in it. There was a witness that said it like, I just don't get it. Did he recently clean his car? Did he recently get like, new parts? Like, you know that those types of things that you think about, yes, and I don't know, I want to know if, like, the police really took its ear.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
When they first reported her, because she was not a minor at that point, but she was special needs, so, like, I don't know,
Unknown Speaker 35:08
think there's cases they should be treated as a minor. Absolutely, you know, 100% agree, because it doesn't matter how old physically you are, or based off the calendar, if you are not intellectually matched up with that Exactly, exactly. So I do have a lot of questions. I wish I'd put out more information, but at least there's hope, knowing that the Erie police have a cold case and that they are putting effort into it. I mean, the little shorts that they put together was recent. It was just this year. And cold cases, unfortunately, move a lot slower than newer cases. These cases have been sitting around. The resources aren't there.
Unknown Speaker 35:54
I mean, I'm sure I'm telling you things that you already know, but the thing is, hopefully the family can get some type of closure, and some type of, you know,
Unknown Speaker 36:04
something at least, can find a body,
Unknown Speaker 36:08
but then, I don't know, it's like, hard. Like, do you want them to have someone come up and tell them what happened and then they find the body? Or do you want them to find the body and then have to figure out who did it? I mean, sometimes finding the body doesn't always bring closure, because then you have the question, then you have the question like, how, how did it end up here? Right?
Unknown Speaker 36:27
You know the how? You don't know the who or the why? Yeah, so I feel like it's like a double edged sword, and it's just I feel so bad for the family. I always feel bad for the family. I can't even comprehend what they go through. And I really hope that
Unknown Speaker 36:42
Sabrina is able to be found and they get some type of closure. Yes, me too. And with that, I hope you guys have a wonderful night.
Unknown Speaker 36:52
Bye,
Unknown Speaker 36:54
that's all we have for this episode of Keystone cold cases podcast. Thank you so much for listening, and please consider leaving us a review wherever you get your podcast, if you want to find out more about the podcast, the host and the cases you cover, or if you want to suggest a case, please visit us at KCC pod.com or send us an email at keystonecold [email protected]
Unknown Speaker 37:16
you can also follow us on Facebook at Keystone cold cases and On Instagram or Tiktok at KCC pod, please remember never to reach out to family or friends of the victims, only to law enforcement. If you have any tips. This episode was researched and hosted by me Chelsea. Find all of our sources social information and contact information at KCC pod. Theme Music by Darren Megan and production assistance from Shannon bibble, join us again next week for another case to salute out you.
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Bump for Sabrina
Sabrina wore braces on her teeth and her hair had just been cut short.
3 Unidentified Person Exclusions
Sabrina wore braces on her teeth and her hair had just been cut short.
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
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www.namus.gov
3 Unidentified Person Exclusions
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