Paint tote

[JMO8778]

Tape and blanket makes more sense on a child about to be removed forcibly from the house than on a corpse.

unless it was staging.and Patsy's fibers are there to indicate that it was,as well as the garrote wasn't functional as such,the fact evidence shows she was not fighting when the cord was placed around her neck,the fact she had pineapple in her....etc....

 

[DeeDee249]

Tape and blanket makes more sense on a child about to be removed forcibly from the house than on a corpse.

The tape showed there was no lip, tongue or mouth movenment, no saliva, no evidence of breathing, no evidence that there was a live child under the tape. Even an unconscious child would shed saliva onto the tape.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The tape showed there was no lip, tongue or mouth movenment, no saliva, no evidence of breathing, no evidence that there was a live child under the tape. Even an unconscious child would shed saliva onto the tape.

Reinforced tape just isn't going to show any stress deformation from breathing. Her mouth would have to have been partially open to 'shed saliva'. Maybe it wasn't open. Where do you get this stuff?

 

[Blondieskatz]

The idea that JB was wrapped like a papoose after she died is an RDI fabrication. Unless you know somehow she was wrapped after she died, you're kinda just making claims.

For example, how is it you know she sat in the kitchen?

Hold,
You're right I don't know that she was wrapped after she died. But, common sense tells you if an intruder did it and if he wrapped JB in her blanket when he took her out of bed and carried her downstairs something (hair or skin cells) would have been on the blanket for DNA. Wouldn't you think?

I don't know that she sat in kitchen. Once again that is an assumption on my part since she did have pineapple in her stomach. It seems unreasonable to believe that she was fed pineapple in the basement and then the inturder took the bowl back upstairs and put it on the table. But then again the intruder did all kinds of strange little things. Afterall, he did sit down and write a three page ransom note after he killed JB, so why not take the bowl of pineapple to the kitchen?

 

[Blondieskatz]

Hold,
Why not give up your theory?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Hold,
You're right I don't know that she was wrapped after she died. But, common sense tells you if an intruder did it and if he wrapped JB in her blanket when he took her out of bed and carried her downstairs something (hair or skin cells) would have been on the blanket for DNA. Wouldn't you think?

I don't know that she sat in kitchen. Once again that is an assumption on my part since she did have pineapple in her stomach. It seems unreasonable to believe that she was fed pineapple in the basement and then the inturder took the bowl back upstairs and put it on the table. But then again the intruder did all kinds of strange little things. Afterall, he did sit down and write a three page ransom note after he killed JB, so why not take the bowl of pineapple to the kitchen?

How do you know this? Or is this just another assumption? RDI is riddled with assumptions just like this, including the assumption PR owned the tape AND the cord, when there's no evidence they owned either the tape OR the cord. Very important missing evidence for RDI, that would naturally be missing evidence if an intruder brought the tape and cord. See what I mean?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Hold,
Why not give up your theory?

Which theory?

 

[JMO8778]

Hold,if JR thinks foreigners did it.....THEN WHY ISN'T HE ON TV OR IN THE MEDIA ASKING FOR HELP TO FIND THEM??????????
My guess is he knows just how ridiculous that would sound !!!! He didn't even propose that theory in DOI.Neither JR nor Patsy nor any other family members or friends ever suggested they believed the RN and that they thought foreigners were responsible for JB's death.SOOOOO...if they don't even believe it...WHY SHOULD WE???? Can you answer that???? He doesn't even use his media time wisely...like saying he felt sorry for JMK..that was just a 'feel sorry for me,too' line.

 

[DeeDee249]

Reinforced tape just isn't going to show any stress deformation from breathing. Her mouth would have to have been partially open to 'shed saliva'. Maybe it wasn't open. Where do you get this stuff?

From every book written on the subject EXCEPT DOI. From reading the thousands of pages on this case. LE has said there were a "perfect set of JBR's lip prints" on the tape.
This isn't fiction. Her mouth was open when LA saw her brought up from the basement, open when the coroner did the autopsy and, more important, open in the autopsy photos that are easily accessed by Googling
'jonbenet ramsey autopsy photos". So, there is no "maybe". Her mouth WAS open.
You should try "getting this stuff", as you so sarcastically put it, the same place I do.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

From every book written on the subject EXCEPT DOI. From reading the thousands of pages on this case. LE has said there were a "perfect set of JBR's lip prints" on the tape.
This isn't fiction. Her mouth was open when LA saw her brought up from the basement, open when the coroner did the autopsy and, more important, open in the autopsy photos that are easily accessed by Googling
'jonbenet ramsey autopsy photos". So, there is no "maybe". Her mouth WAS open.
You should try "getting this stuff", as you so sarcastically put it, the same place I do.

I highly doubt your sources as being able to factually determine the tape was placed on JBR post-mortem. I can't find it in any SMF anywhere. So its just an RDI claim.

More practically (and more rationally) the tape and blanket could have been part of an actual plan to remove JBR from the house.

 

[JMO8778]

You're in classic denial,Hold.Why is it you just overlook and ignore any post you don't have a turnaround answer for?????

 

[BBB167893]

It belongs to Homeland Security Dept. now. But, I just asked my husband and he said....(drum roll please)...the Treasury Department, until March 1, 2003.
But, that was only one person....and he must have been blind.

It was simpler than that, Ames. He had incomplete samples and an incomplete report, if Mr. Ubowski is to be believed.

LE is non-prosecutorial when it comes to the R's. The Secret Service branch of the US government said PR didn't write the note.

Actually, it was a former member of the Secert Service. There's a former member of the Secret Service on our side, Holdon. Want me to show you? Sure, I will!

Michelle Dresbold has written a new book Sex, Lies and Handwriting (2006); in a recent Bill O'Reilly interview (full interview posted 12-22-2006 08:07 AM by Internet poster Candy), the author stated: "The chances that Patsy Ramsey did not write the ransom note are about 2 percent [Emphasis added]. So it's an extremely high, it's an extremely high..."
Qualifications. According to her Website, "Michelle Dresbold, a graduate of The United States Secret Service's Advanced Document Examination training program, is considered one of the top experts in the nation on handwriting identification, personality profiling and threat analysis. She consults to private attorneys, police departments, and prosecutors throughout the United States.

These conclusions are made by people with access to all the information, unlike you or me. This should tell you something.

Actually, they DIDN'T have all the information, Holdon. They didn't even know she could write both-handed until four YEARS after the crime.

The idea that LE has 'biz' with R lawyers, as suggested by SD, is ridiculous.

Oh, so Alex Hunter and Bill Wise WEREN'T co-owners of a shopping mall with Hal Haddon?

It was a brutal murder by a pedophile. Thats what the hard evidence says.

The hell it is. It wasn't even that brutal. Don't take my word for it:

The FBI believed that the sexual violation of JonBenet, whether pre or postmortem did not appear to have been committed for the perpetrators gratification. The penetration, which caused minor genital trauma, was more likely part of a staged crime scene intended to mislead the police." (PMPT pg 306

That the R's received special treatment is just a figment of your imagination.

PLEASE! Any blue-collar slob like me would have had his carcass dumped into the slammer like THAT. Explain the reticence to prosecute the Midyettes, while you're at it.

So are these the only choices IDI is allowed? Pedophile killer and ransom kidnapper? What about pedophile kidnapper? Sadistic or ritualistic killer?

Holdon, around 2002-2003, we as Americans were absolutely INUNDATED with pedophile kidnappers; Danielle Van Dam, Samantha Runnion, et al. They ALL followed the same pattern: creep snatches, rapes, kills and dumps. Not ONE of them even REMOTELY resembles this case, which Marc Klaas and Nancy Grace were very quick to point out to Mr. Wood. As for sadistic killer, yeah, he was so sadistic he barely scracthed her private areas and left her like a sleeping baby. Real sicko, this one.

From every book written on the subject EXCEPT DOI. From reading the thousands of pages on this case. LE has said there were a "perfect set of JBR's lip prints" on the tape.

That checks with what I've read, as well.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon, around 2002-2003, we as Americans were absolutely INUNDATED with pedophile kidnappers; Danielle Van Dam, Samantha Runnion, et al. They ALL followed the same pattern: creep snatches, rapes, kills and dumps. Not ONE of them even REMOTELY resembles this case, which Marc Klaas and Nancy Grace were very quick to point out to Mr. Wood. As for sadistic killer, yeah, he was so sadistic he barely scracthed her private areas and left her like a sleeping baby. Real sicko, this one.

Uh, except maybe for the victim profile?? And I'll tell you here and now that anyone who even 'barely scratches' a child in this way is a pedophile.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I just think yours is wrong, thats all.

You won't know if it was or was not a sadistic murder until you know what happened in the basement, right?

 

[DeeDee249]

I highly doubt your sources as being able to factually determine the tape was placed on JBR post-mortem. I can't find it in any SMF anywhere. So its just an RDI claim.

More practically (and more rationally) the tape and blanket could have been part of an actual plan to remove JBR from the house.

I never said the tape was placed POST-MORTEM. No one said that. It WAS said she wasn't conscious when it was put there. Most people who have studied the case, including LE, believe that. However, it is possible it could have been a post-mortem placement.
Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it's an idle claim.
If you read the same sources we do, you'd be RDI too.
None of us here, including you, has read EVERY word (of the millons written) on this case, nor do we claim to. But some of us come close...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I never said the tape was placed POST-MORTEM. No one said that. It WAS said she wasn't conscious when it was put there. Most people who have studied the case, including LE, believe that. However, it is possible it could have been a post-mortem placement.
Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it's an idle claim.
If you read the same sources we do, you'd be RDI too.
None of us here, including you, has read EVERY word (of the millons written) on this case, nor do we claim to. But some of us come close...

It was said by whom?

 

[DeeDee249]

It was said by whom?

Brother...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Brother...

Allow me to rephrase: Where does LE, or anyone else for that matter, state that LE has established forensically that the tape was placed on an unconscious JBR?

 

[DeeDee249]

Holdon- please put me on "ignore"- as I have you.
You seem to single me out for folowing my posts and being held to your standards which you yourself cannot meet. If you have done a fraction of the reading on this case that most of us have, you wouldn't need to ask.
You cannot back up anything you say with evidence. (DOI is not evidence).

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon- please put me on "ignore"- as I have you.
You seem to single me out for folowing my posts and being held to your standards which you yourself cannot meet. If you have done a fraction of the reading on this case that most of us have, you wouldn't need to ask.
You cannot back up anything you say with evidence. (DOI is not evidence).

Whatever.

 

[UKGuy]

I never said the tape was placed POST-MORTEM. No one said that. It WAS said she wasn't conscious when it was put there. Most people who have studied the case, including LE, believe that. However, it is possible it could have been a post-mortem placement.
Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it's an idle claim.
If you read the same sources we do, you'd be RDI too.
None of us here, including you, has read EVERY word (of the millons written) on this case, nor do we claim to. But some of us come close...

DeeDee249,

The lack of a lip imprint on the tape, and fibers found on the underside make it highly probable it was placed on her mouth post-mortem.

Also a tan fluid, probably a mixture of blood and mucous, seeped from JonBenet's nose and/or mouth, some of this fluid is recorded as staining her white-gap top, but none is seen on the tape!

It may have been this aspect that Fleet White went back to take a look at, finding her body in such an obscure part of the house along with the tape must have been a big red flag for him?