BTW, probably one of the biggest reasons, IMO, to consider PR uninvolved is the lack of a handwriting match consensus.
In a way, there is is: they all said that they couldn't eliminate her.
There isn't a consensus among ABFDE certified document examiners that PR wrote the note.
True, Holdon, but that tends to be the rule, not the exception. Very rarely does it happen that a documents examiner will say, "definitely yes this person," and such. Remember, handwriting analysis is not a science, at least, not yet. And as such, it's not a big shock that they would each have a different take. But they all agreed that they couldn't say she didn't write it, which is far more common, last I knew.
If there was, that would've been a significant event for RDI.
Agreed, but that's not how it works.
Lacking the consensus was a big failure for RDI.
Perhaps so. But then, that's not all we've got.
Holdontoyourhat,
There is evidence of prior sexual trauma, Steve Thomas' panel of assorted pediatric experts unanimously agreed upon this aspect.
You tell him, UKGuy!
Second, you don't know that anyone was 'messing around' with JBR at any point. Most definitely, you don't know.
Oh, we don't, do we?
ST seems just a little biased toward RDI. Naturally his 'panel' is going to favor his POV. Its like the R's hiring their own lie detector. See what I mean?
No, Holdon, I don't see what you mean. What I see is the twisting of phrases until they bear no relation to what was actually said. To be fair, UKGuy was slightly in error when he referred to it as ST's panel. It WASN'T particularly his panel at all. It was the panel the police and DA consulted, internationally recognized all.
Yet another failure for RDI is the lack of chronic abuse testimony from those who actually attended to JBR in life or death.
Really? Is that why Dr. Sirotnak and Richard Krugman co-authored a study on child sexual abuse and used JB as patient zero?
You're spouting off stuff you know nothing about. Nobody does except the coroner and the pediatrician, the only outsiders to have examined JBR in life and death. And THEY don't share your silly, crass ideas. What about that??
What about it? This:
This is what Det. Arndt said: "What was seen was not a first-time injury-not all of her injuries appeared to be recent." Keep in mind she's talking about her conversations with the coroner that day.
And as for the pediatrician, he admitted that he never performed an internal exam. Plus, take a gander:
Ricky Holland's pediatrician also saw no signs of child abuse [Ricky Holland's parents have been [http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061115/NEWS99/61115011/1008/NEWS|convicted] of Ricky's death and the father has apologized for his role, leaving little doubt about their culpability.].
Sticking to this 'PR wrote the note' idea, even when most ABFDE certified document examiners don't say so,
They say she can't be ruled out, which, until more scientific means are available, is as good as it gets in many cases.
even when the federal government (treasury dept.) says she didn't write it, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I think you refer to the Secret Service agent? Yes, I did a little research on him. In PMPT, he's not mentioned by name, but apparently he only did a very quick, preliminary analysis and gave a quickie conclusion, or at least that's what I got out of it from Chet Ubowski, one of the ABFDE men you mention, because Ubowski was not pleased. I quote:
"They never bothered to ask Ubowski if he had put his entire analysis of the ransom note into his report, or if it was his final report."
Which suggests to me that they went into it with incomplete information, i.e., with what Ubowski said "did not suggest the full range of her handwriting."
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this would have been around mid-1997, right? As in, BEFORE they had all of the samples they would end up with; BEFORE they knew Patsy was ambidextrous, and on and on.
Still with me?
Its funny to see RDI always in total opposition to professional opinion, and to the evidence, thats for sure.
Well, let's take a look as to what some ABFDE professionals DID say, Holdon (boy, I'm gonna enjoy this!):
-Agent Ubowski stated that the handwriting samples obtained from Patsy do not suggest the full range of her handwriting.
-Carol McKinley stated in the Fox News story that Ramseys sued Fox over (and lost): "Many forensic document examiners have given their opinions as to who wrote the note. But the only one to testify before a grand jury in the case was Chet Ubowski, forensic document examiner for the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. Out of 100 people he analyzed for the Boulder Police Department,
he found ONLY ONE person whom he thought may have authored the document, Patsy Ramsey. Investigative sources tell Fox News that the disguised letters and bleeding ink from the felt tipped pen used to write the note kept him from 100 percent ID of Mrs. Ramsey."
-"Either way, Ubowski was prepared to say, 'Patsy wrote the note.' The CBI saw this as another missed opportunity" (Schiller 1999a:536-537)
-Schiller further notes: "experts from the CBI presented their evaluations into evidence, including Chet Ubowski. He also told Pete Mang, his boss at the CBI, that his gut told him it was her handwriting" (Schiller 1999a:740).
-Speckin reportedly was ready to testify that "there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkably similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs."
-Gideon Epstein, a forensic document examiner hired by Darnay Hoffman, asserted in his deposition in Wolf v. Ramsey that he was "absolutely certain" (which he clarified in follow-up questioning to mean "100 percent certain") Patsy Ramsey wrote the RN
-"Mr. Epstein is a forensic document examiner who served as the past president of the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners, is a registered member of the ABFDE, and has authored several authoritative texts in the field.
-"Plaintiff notes that Mr. Epstein has "appeared in 200 cases over a thirty year period, having examined thousands of documents ... {, has} established questioned document laboratories for not only the U.S. government, but for those of Eastern Europe and the Philippines as well, while teaching hundreds of government document examiners their professions."
This man is THE man, however one measures these things.
-Larry F. Ziegler "It was determined and is still determined by myself that Patsy Ramsey is the writer of the ransom note." Ziegler is a member of the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners, the only professional certifying organization in the profession.
-Michelle Dresbold, a graduate of The United States Secret Service's Advanced Document Examination training program: "The chances that Patsy Ramsey did not write the ransom note are about 2 percent"
Lastly, Tom Miller agreed with all above. Granted, he's not an ABFDE member, but I mention him for a different reason. That being that he was targeted for a smear campaign perpetrated by those hired thugs the Ramseys call private investigators (must have taken lessons from Hillary Clinton) because that was his conclusion and he wouldn't just shut up about it. And I have the transcripts of his sham trial to prove that he was targeted because he said she wrote it.
Not too long ago, Jeff Shapiro was back at it. He used the words "striking similarities" when Bill O'Reilly interviewed him. Perhaps it's not the sheer number of matches so much as it is the ones that really leap out at you.
Also, Darnay Hoffman was interviewed by Mr. O'Reilly. He said this:
"The Ramseys have never released any of their handwriting reports, which they could have done and cleared Patsy at any time, which is suspect to begin with."
It's not like they've been shy with their bought-and-paid-for opinions, is it?
Ultimately, Holdon, it would come down to the guys on my side and on yours for the jury's comsumption. And quite frankly, it doesn't bode well for you. Here's why:
http://www.acandyrose.com/02182003dh911motion.pdf
Now, you read that document very carefully. You take a look at those side-by-side matches. And before you respond, I want you to ask yourself one question: if a jury saw that, do you think they would believe what they saw, or what they were told? I may not be a hotshot lawyer, but I know people, and a lot of people are like me: believe it when I see it.
Local and federal LE can't make RDI work, even though there was a handwritten note, the victim, and the murder weapon at the scene. That should tell even the densest person something.
Tells me plenty. Tells me some people don't know the difference between "can't make it work" and "won't make it work." And this case falls into the latter, from what I can tell. DA's in biz with Ramsey lawyers, standards of proof no reasonable person could meet, and mostly, the inability to lay specific charges on specific people.
Not as ridiculous as RDI standing by all their claims when local and federal LE do not.
Well, when Mr. Karr was arrested, Joe Scarborough was doing his TV show, and he said that no one considered anyone but Patsy as the perp. Jeff Shapiro wrote the same thing.
So RDI is out on a limb right now.
I'd wait until after election season before I said that were I you.
