Parents On This Forum: Answer Me This!

[Toltec]

I have just finished reading the Atlanta 2000 interviews. Anyone with any desire to find true knowledge about this case MUST read them as they are VERY TELLING!!!! To the people on this forum who are parents, would the behavior of Patsy Ramsey in those interviews be consistent, at all, with how you would behave if your beloved daughter was murdered? SHE KNEW NOTHING OF THE INVESTIGATION!!!!!
5 CHIEF BECKNER: Yeah, I was just,

6 because the impression was that, based on

7 some of the statements that you've made

8 publicly and John specifically about spending

9 all of his time trying to find the killer of

10 JonBenet, I am trying to get at, you know,

11 what are you doing and how involved are you.

12 Because I was getting the sense here that

13 you aren't particularly involved in that.

14 THE WITNESS (PATSY): Well, I am not

15 day-to-day involved with it. John speaks

16 with Ollie, I would say, on a daily basis.

17 You know, where we are, what's been --

Think of BETH HOLLOWAY and how she can recite ANY DETAIL of ANY PERSON who has had even the most MINUTE of roles in the disappearance of her daughter. Think of Sharon Rocha and her notebook that she kept with her all throughout the investigation of Laci. You mean to tell me this woman had NO IDEA, almost every question she deferred to "Oh John would know that." If the life that came out of my womb were so violently murdered I would not only know the name of every person I came across, but how they took their coffee, the color of their eyes, etc. NOW I AM SURE I WILL BE BOMBARDED BY A BUNCH OF: "Oh there is no "rule book" for how to grieve and behave in situations like that." BS people. If you don't buy it from Lee Peterson, how does it apply in this case? Double Standard. A mother would be a helluva lot more concerned than Patsy Ramsey was. But then again, maybe it was all so ho-hum to her, she didn't need no stinkin' ivestigators, cuz she already knew exactly how things went down that night.

Anyone who is a parent, I DARE you to tell me you would not be 100% involved and abreast of the investigation of your child's murder...

Excellent post! No caring and loving Mother would say what Patsy said. I have a 28yo son and a 19 month-old daughter. No way would I defer to anyone. I would be thinking about my murdered child 24/7. I would have total recall of anyone who knew JonBenet and who was involved with her the month of her murder. I would be camped on the doorsteps of the Police Department. I would shout out to the world...."Please help me find my daughters murderer!".

I would not post a 50,000 dollar reward....nor up it to 100,000...not even 118,000! I would post every last cent I owned...even give them the houses I owned just to find the monster!

What really took the cake was when John was asked why he did not make the 911 call and instead let a supposedly hysterical Patsy do it. His response was that he does not take or make calls while at home...that is Patsy's job.

HUH???

 

[sandraladeda]

As a parent, I would definitely be abreast of the investigation, 100% involved. I would know all the details, all the players, all the investigators, all the suspects, etc. You would not be able to keep me away!!

 

[calus_3]

Let me put this in perspective.

I severely sprained my ankle two weeks ago and while at the doctor's office, I had some bloodwork done.

Well, some of it came back abnormal (which explains a LOT of problems I have been having, but nothing too terribly bad). After getting the generic call from my doctor's office, I have called back twice now seeking further clarification and explanation of results. I know they are hoping my appointment gets here quickly so I will stop calling.

Now, my daughter is killed and the case goes cold. Not only cold but the faction in the police/DA's office that believes I did it is preventing any forward progress. But I am just content to sit back and relax and vacation and live it up.....NO FREAKING WAY. I would be in my congressman's office, the stage bureau of investigation, the bar association, etc. until someone started putting the pressure on the investigators to solve the case. But then again, I wouldn't fly out of the state the same day nor would I refuse to give statements or declare conditions for those statements or obstruct justice either. But then again, I didn't murder my child.....Patsy or someone in that house did.

Cal

 

[BBB167893]

"To the people on this forum who are parents, would the behavior of Patsy Ramsey in those interviews be consistent, at all, with how you would behave if your beloved daughter was murdered? SHE KNEW NOTHING OF THE INVESTIGATION!!!!!"

Forget the 2000 interviews! The '98 interview spells it out for me!

"Patsy, JonBenet was molested prior to the killing. Many times."

Patsy: (cold as ice): "My God. That's so horrible. Can we move this along?"

WHAT?! To the parents here: if I, as a policeman, told you this, you're telling me you wouldn't go BERZERK?!

"John Ramsey himself said it had to be an inside job. Those were his actual words - inside job."

They were. Can't change it.

"And then there's the break-in in Atlanta...absolutely unbelievable. As if a family whose daughter had been murdered by an intruder would EVER be lax in security again..."

I've been saying that for YEARS!

 

[Pedro]

I've read those interviews many times over the last 9 years and far from having anything to do with who the perp is I always supported the Ramseys in two things:

1. - Talk to a lawyer before you talk to the cops: if they want to talk to you and you are close to the victim of any crime most likely they are after you.

2. - The BPD and the DA were not only completely inept in their handling of the situation, they indeed created the perception that JBR's body was up for a bargain.

In those circumstances most people will still talk to the cops, I wouldn't and the R's didn't.

Did the Ramseys over-reacted to the BPD and the DA? Could be but as a general rule talking to the cops is something you only do with your lawyer present and in your own terms because more often than not, you've told the cops everything already several times so if they want to talk to you again is not for your own good...is because they don't believe you and want to catch you in a contradiction, so don't do it.

And for the record, my post doesn't define my position in this case: who did it.

 

[IrishMist]

In those circumstances most people will still talk to the cops, I wouldn't and the R's didn't.

Did the Ramseys over-reacted to the BPD and the DA? Could be but as a general rule talking to the cops is something you only do with your lawyer present and in your own terms because more often than not, you've told the cops everything already several times so if they want to talk to you again is not for your own good...is because they don't believe you and want to catch you in a contradiction, so don't do it.

And for the record, my post doesn't define my position in this case: who did it.

Even so, Pedro, they were given much that you and I would not get. i.e. They were allowed to choose where and when the interviews would take place, they were given their previous statements to peruse before the interviews, they were given copies of the questions in advance of the interviews, and copies of much of the evidence before the interviews. And that's just off the top of my head!

They pulled strings, these high-priced, high-placed Ramsey lawyers. The DA played right along with them. You and I would NEVER have that, lawyers or not.

 

[booradley]

Patsy Ramsey lived in a world of "niceness & rightness ...she was a Southern "gurl" who viewed life thru rose coloured glasses

Ok, here is my take on the Southern girl thing with PR. Although technically part of the South because the majority of its land mass lies below the mason dixon line, West Virginia has never been considered part of the South by many Southerners. West Virginia came into being in the time immediately proceeding the Civil war because the far western counties of Virginia succeeded due to ideological differences with the rich plantation owners in the central and coastal Virginia. West Virginia has always had a population and economy totally different from Virginia and and other more traditional southern states. I do not mean to offend anyone but in Virginia and surrounding states, West Virginians are made the butt of many barroom jokes much as people of Polish decent are elsewhere. Even the mascot for their only major university, WVU is the Mountaineer (who until only very recently was depicted as a barefoot moonshine toting fellow!) Anyway, it always amuses me when people talk of PR's Southern upbringing. As with everything ellse about PR, I think it was a style she adopted when she moved to Atlanta after graduation, "the Southern genteel lady". I think she loved to create the illusion of coming from grander things than the hills of WV, more of a Scarlett O'hara vs. the Hatfields and McCoys . I think we saw the crack in her genteel facade when the questioning got a little tough with the BPD. I think her true colors shone through when she called the cop Buddy or Pal etc. Please don't bash me for dissing a little on WV, its my heritage! Boo

 

[Pedro]

Even so, Pedro, they were given much that you and I would not get. i.e. They were allowed to choose where and when the interviews would take place, they were given their previous statements to peruse before the interviews, they were given copies of the questions in advance of the interviews, and copies of much of the evidence before the interviews. And that's just off the top of my head!

They pulled strings, these high-priced, high-placed Ramsey lawyers. The DA played right along with them. You and I would NEVER have that, lawyers or not.

In my opinion anyone is allowed to chose when and how she/he speaks to the police, allowed to refuse to speak to the police at all; even if arrested: MIRANDA v. ARIZONA 384 U.S. 436 (1966), ESCOBEDO v Illinois 378 U.S. 478, 384 U.S. 436/437 U.S. Constitution Pp 444-491 and 458/465...the list is endless.


The Ramsey family got nothing anyone else wouldn't get, even if arrested, these are basic rights and should be known by all.

So if the police want to talk to you, you ask them to share information they got already, you set the questions in advance or get a copy of those questions, if they say no then you don't talk to them.

It is your right.

To me the preservation of our rights is more important than the punishment of any crime.

 

[IrishMist]

Anyone is allowed to chose when and how she/he speaks to the police, or even to refuse to speak to the police at all even if arrested: MIRANDA v. ARIZONA 384 U.S. 436 (1966), ESCOBEDO v Illinois 378 U.S. 478, 384 U.S. 436/437 U.S. Constitution Pp 444-491 and 458/465...the list is endless.


The Ramsey family got nothing anyone else wouldn't get, even if arrested, these are basic rights and should be known by all.

So if the police want to talk to you, you ask them to share information they got already, you set the questions in advance or get a copy of those questions, if they say no then you don't talk to them.

It is your right.

To me the preservation of our rights is more important than the punishment of any crime.

I understand my rights. But I don't believe the DA would work WITH me to avoid talking to the police. I don't believe they would work with the typical suspect in that manner. I do believe that the Ramsey attorneys were high priced and high placed. I do believe that those two factors have seriously hindered a murder investigation.

 

[Nehemiah]

I honestly don't know how I would respond if one of my children were murdered. I have a good friend whose teenage daughter was killed in an accident a few years ago. My friend to this day will say that she responded totally opposite of how she always thought she would respond if one of her children died. In her mind, she thought she would have been crying, have to be sedated, out of control, etc... In reality, she got the family and friends all together at the hospital into a circle, prayed aloud and thanked God for the time that she had had her daughter here on earth; she thanked all the friends who had come and supported the family at the hospital, etc... At the funeral she was very composed and appreciative to all the persons who attended. She says that she does not know why she was so calm and in control. Her meltdown came weeks later, at home alone. Only her family and closest friends ever knew that she went through he** at home. When I think of Patsy & John and their reactions, I think of my friend and how she has said over and over that she never expected herself to act the way she did. Having gone through that situation, I don't think I know myself well enough to know what I would do, or how I would act.

 

[Pedro]

I understand my rights. But I don't believe the DA would work WITH me to avoid talking to the police. I don't believe they would work with the typical suspect in that manner. I do believe that the Ramsey attorneys were high priced and high placed. I do believe that those two factors have seriously hindered a murder investigation.

I think people talk to the police because they think if they don't talk to the police they will appear uncooperative and hiding something. Other people think they can out-smart the police which they can't for two main reasons: the police is trained to interrogate and the police can lie to you during the interrogation and tell you they have what they don't. Other people is just afraid or has something minor to hide (affairs are the most common reason) and end up talking and getting charged with something serious.

Why do you think "career criminals" get the best deals? Because they know they can't outsmart the cops, they know the cops already think they are guilty and they know there is nothing to win talking but a lot shutting up and waiting for a lawyer to get a deal, then talk.

Nobody can force you to talk to the police.

 

[Jolynna]

I have read and heard too much speculation about this case that when researched, I found the information to be false.

What information pointing to the Ramseys has been proven to be false? The fiber evidence? The fact that, to this day LE, has not been given all of the Ramsey phone records?

I asked this before and did not get an answer...why would an innocent parent NOT want LE to go over their phone records with a fine tooth comb???????

I can think of a lot of ways that this would be useful for investigators. But, I cannot think of a single reason to keep this information from law enforcement.

 

[Pedro]

not been given all of the Ramsey phone records?

Please could you elaborate? My memory isn't good. Thank you.

 

[Details]

Depends on the person - I can see a mother, or myself reacting that way. Partly because one of my coping techniques is denial, partly because another coping technique when I am at max-stress is to avoid taking on anything new. So, I've got cancer, my daughter is dead, and the world thinks I am a murdering, torturing pedophile who killed her own daughter. Well - that's enough for me - I just don't need to keep hearing more about the case, I want to remember my daughter as she was in life, not think more, hear more about the horrible things she went through during her death. The less I know, the better I can keep my sanity. And the investigation won't be helped by me driving myself nuts keeping up with it - my husband can tell me when there are real results, but beyond that - it's not going to bring her back, nothing can fix this even a little, and I'm maybe a little scared of having to go through the trial and publicity and attacks from the defense if the culprit is found - not that I wouldn't want them to be caught, but I don't want to think about that right now.


I've had a max-stress time recently - and that's how I reacted - with far less stress than the Ramsey's had.

I don't know who done it - I lean IDI, but either is possible - but I just don't see the condemning details in how the Ramsey's reacted that morning and since.

 

[julianne]

Very good post, Details. Also Nehemiah, your post was great.

 

[Jolynna]

Law enforcement was denied access to the Ramsey's phone records, despite several requests for them.

Yes, a year after JonBenet's murder they "turned over" selective records, (surprisingly, the month of Dec. on one cell phone was blank, though the months before on that phone had plenty of activity), but what investigators got was CHOSEN.

You cannot investigate a murder without phone records. The killer might have contacted the Ramseys in some way. To see if they were home? As a stalker, maybe? Claiming to be a cable company salesman?

What possible reason could there be to keep this information from LE? FOR A WHOLE YEAR? And then to give the police incomplete information?

I cannot think of a single reason to keep phone records from the police.

Not one.

 

[julianne]

This link was posted by SleuthingSleuth on another thread just a little while ago. I don't think this has ever been posted before----needless to say, I am a little shocked. This link describes the other sexual assault against a child in Boulder in 1997, some 2 miles from JonBenets house, an intruder did it, and he laid in wait in the house for 4 hours before assaulting the girl.

Excellent find, SleuthingSleuth!!!! Hope you don't mind me bringing it over here---this is a major find!!!

http://hellpainter.tripod.com/jbr/14.htm

 

[Pedro]

Law enforcement was denied access to the Ramsey's phone records, despite several requests for them.

Yes, a year after JonBenet's murder they "turned over" selective records, (surprisingly, the month of Dec. on one cell phone was blank, though the months before on that phone had plenty of activity), but what investigators got was CHOSEN.

You cannot investigate a murder without phone records. The killer might have contacted the Ramseys in some way. To see if they were home? As a stalker, maybe? Claiming to be a cable company salesman?

What possible reason could there be to keep this information from LE? FOR A WHOLE YEAR? And then to give the police incomplete information?

I cannot think of a single reason to keep phone records from the police.

Not one.

My question is, who says you have to provide anything to the police without a court order?

If they give any records at all without an order they were cooperative, if they failed to provide the records and those records were requested by the court they should be held in contempt.

So the question here is: Did the Ramsey family failed to provide records they had to provide by court order or they just refused to give the records they have no obligation to provide?

I wouldn't give anyone jack without a court order because if LE can't get a court order then they have nothing and they are in a fishing expedition without probable cause which is against the search and seizure clause, 4th amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Dang Constitution restricting the government from searching and seizing without probable cause...

 

[julianne]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Dang Constitution restricting the government from searching and seizing without probable cause...

Too funny, Pedro---that pesky little constitution always getting in the way!!! LOL
Great post, by the way. You made great points!

 

[Pedro]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Too funny, Pedro---that pesky little constitution always getting in the way!!! LOL

Thank you. I feel passionate about our rights.


Yes and we have the trend to forget that is here, to stay and healthy...somewhat healthy.

Without arrest, without "plain view", without "open field" and without "exigent circumstance", without "probable cause" there is no obligation to provide anything.