Parents sue docs for deciding gender of intersex child 10 years ago

  • #21
I agree with others that say - 10 years ago, things were perceived differently than they are today. I do not think that the doctors did this in neglect or in a way to hurt this child. I think that their efforts would be better in educating the public and possibly doctors on their plight. Figure out the best solution for future children so that they are not faced with the same outcome.

I do not like that society thinks that everything should be brought in to a court of law. Sue happy people cause prices to go up for all of society. To me, I hope that this case is thrown out and doesn't go anywhere. I am sorry for this child that feels like this, but I think the parents are doing a disservice by blaming the doctors for something that is hard for anyone to understand or go through. JMHO

Sure, the doctors/social workers didn't know what they were doing was wrong, but it was still wrong nonetheless. This child is suffering from gender identity issues because of that mistake, and it is only right to compensate him for that.
 
  • #22
From blog of intersex advocacy group Advocates for Informed Choice, organization reported to have filed lawsuit on behalf of Pam & Mark

"... the Fourth Circuit has overturned the district court’s ruling in the case of M.C. vs. Aaronson. This means they will not allow the federal case to go to trial. However, the ruling does not affect the companion case of M.C. vs. Medical University of South Carolina, which was brought in state court
...."

"It does not settle the question of whether state actors who perform medically unnecessary sex assignment surgery on young children without notice and a hearing violate those children’s constitutional rights. Those who are concerned about future liability are still advised to seek court oversight before performing irreversible, medically unnecessary sex assignment surgery on children too young to participate in the decision."

"In state court, we have brought claims against the hospitals based on the lack of informed consent and against the Department of Social Services based on gross negligence. The state court has already ruled that this case may proceed to trial."

http://aiclegal.org/update-on-the-m-c-case-the-road-to-justice-can-be-long/ Jan 27, 2015
Posted by Pidgeon Pagonis. Bookmark the permalink
 
  • #23
Link below has vid w part of that show ~ March 10, 2015

"... Pam, Mark & Ben Crawford, M.C.’s family, also featured in the Nightline piece for speaking the fierce truth from their hearts about why what happened to M.C."

http://aiclegal.org/confronting-goliath-without-a-stone/ Mar 10 blog
 
  • #24
Aug. 26, 2013 post from http://aiclegal.org/aic-announces-important-first-victory-in-mc-case/
"....AIC and co-counsel The Southern Poverty Law Center and the private firms Janet, Jenner & Suggs LLC and Steptoe & Johnson LLP, filed lawsuits in both state and federal courts in May."



^ lawsuits link connects to http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/15/mark-pam-crawford-intersex-child_n_3280353.html dated May 15, 2013. Also has 3:49 min interview w parents, w slide show w pix of them.


From Southern Poverty Law Center site, May 13, 2013:
"Groundbreaking SPLC lawsuit accuses South Carolina, doctors and hospitals of unnecessary surgery on infant"
Lawsuit in St. ct.: "M.C. v. Medical University of South Carolina, was filed in County of Richland Court of Common Pleas."
https://www.splcenter.org/news/2013...octors-and-hospitals-unnecessary#.UZOvsYJAsV1
 
  • #25
http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/pre...s-for-deciding-their-kid-is-a-girl/ar-BBlIUDA

The surgery this child underwent 10 years ago, while in the foster care system, was entirely within medical standards for care of these children at the time (approximately 2005). "Doing nothing" would likely not have been a realistic option, IMO, for many reasons. (Some of them medical-- depending on the child's particular anatomy.)

I think it's unfortunate the child identifies with the opposite sex than the one determined by the team of docs, but don't see where anything that was done medically for the child was inappropriate. I think the parent's lawsuit is profoundly inappropriate. They knew the child had had surgery before they adopted her. Remember-- the infant care this child received was 10 years ago.

What do posters think?

I don't have a problem with the lawsuit. They aren't suing because they received damaged goods. They are suing on behalf of their son who was mutilated for nothing more than to satisfy a medical establishment that decided assigning a gender was so important that it did not matter if doing so irrevocably damaged the child's sex organs or psyche.

I've read so much research on this issue (editing for my sweetheart whose thesis is on the medical treatment of intersex kids), and have definitive attitudes as a result. It's b.s.. The surgeries were done to force a perfectly healthy baby (in most cases) to conform to archaic gender norms. Totally medically unnecessary and actually quite medically harmful and painful and disruptive to the child's mind and body, typically. Similar motivations for the medical "fixing" of intersex babies as female genital mutilation in North Africa.

Leave their bodies alone. I don't have a problem with deciding to assign a gender without destroying their bodies and then if the child determines the gender doesn't fit, at any time, then the child can make a choice. But their bodies will still be intact. Not destroyed.
 
  • #26
One of the things I know for sure is that not “every” child that has had an “ambiguous gender” condition with medical care and surgery/ies as an infant and toddler is angry and distraught about it.

I spent time reading every single article on the now- defunct (transformed) “Intersex Society Of North America” advocacy website. I generally agree with roughly ½ of what they have on their website-- the info that is designed to be educational about what "intersex" birth conditions are. I don’t agree at all with 1/2 of what they advocate.

My overall impression is that this is a “society” of profoundly angry and frustrated individuals who are more interested in expressing their anger over social issues, and what kinds of medical intervention happened decades ago, than in advocating for the current care of these infants, kids, and young adults NOW. Maybe that's why the folded in 2008?

No one in health care, for decades upon decades (probably 30-40 years), has advocated that “intersex” birth conditions should be kept secret from patients as older kids and adults, medical records falsified, etc. That's pure baloney.

I am reminded of a video my spouse and I were made to watch during our adoption classes. The video was about VERY angry adoptees who were now adults, and furious with the circumstances of their very legal and ethical adoptions, the lack of control they had over their early lives, and the situations that lead to them being available for adoption. These people in the videos were consumed with the “unfairness” of the circumstances of their lives because they were not in biologically nuclear families (and all were adopted by loving families who were honest and tried to keep the adopted person connected to their personal histories as well as birth cultures.) If this was all a prospective adoptive parent was shown or taught, it would lead one to think *every* adopted person as an adult was dysfunctionally angry, frustrated, and obsessive about their adoptions—and we all know that this is far from the truth.

I liken this intersex advocacy somewhat to the “debate” on routine male infant circumcision. Some cultures do it, others don’t, some pay for it, others don’t, some think there is medical advantage to the procedure, others think it’s unnecessary and cosmetic. Some families would be devastated if their male infants did NOT have foreskin circumcision; others are devastated if a male child in their family IS circumcised. The ISNA (and subsequent Accord group) wants to present all of the surgical care of “intersexed” infants as if all of the care is ruthlessly cosmetic and frivolous/ elective—unless there is something serious, such as what they describe as “impaired drainage of urine”-- in which case they begrudgingly "allow" surgical intervention. That is, IMO, a very extremist position to take, and IMO, not at all representative of the majority of individuals who were born with an “intersex” condition, and are emotionally and socially healthy as older kids and adults.

Parents of infants have to make decisions every day all over the world about how to deal with all kinds of birth defects and birth deformities (and yes, I know some people take a basic offense at the terms “defect” and “deformity”.) The overwhelming majority of the time, parents and surrogate parents make the absolute best decisions they can for the infants/ toddlers (and teams of doctors for kids in foster care, guardians ad litems, etc). Kids are born with all kinds of “differences” that are far more noticeable socially—craniofacial deformities, limb deformities, etc. For the most part, genital deformities are hidden from social interaction unless the person chooses to share. Choosing a gender to raise a child in “preliminarily” is done by virtually every single parent on earth—and parents of intersex kids require assistance from the medical community due to the medical issues with the child’s intersex condition.

Should a child with "lobster claw" syndrome not be treated until adulthood, so that the child can "choose" whether to surgically intervene? Should a child with cleft lip and palate be made to "wait" until adulthood to decide if their deformity should be treated-- to decide if they can talk more normally? Swallow? Should we make those kids go deaf from ear infections until they are old enough to decide if they wanted to keep their hearing? Should a child with clubfoot, or extra vestigial limbs be made to wait to adulthood to make decisions about their care, to decide if they want to try to be able to walk? Because these are valid questions, IMO, if we "decide" that kids with major intersex conditions should "wait" to have any intervention until they are "old enough" to decide.

There was nothing malicious or negligent or abusive about the care this child received in 2005. The parents need to get over their own issues about the care this child received, and get back to the business of raising this child to be whoever “she” or “he” turns out to be. If the child is a "she", great! If the child is a "he", that's ALSO great! The child has a "genital disability" that is separate from GENDER identity. The 2 are not one and the same, just as in transgendered people.

What doctors did for this child 10 years ago was not a needless or frivolous genital mutilation. Good grief.

This lawsuit, IMO, is not groundbreaking or “brave” or even a little bit appropriate. The parents, IMO, are making this situation into a MUCH more embarrassing and high profile ordeal for this 10 year old child that is necessary. IMO, they are not advocating for the child—IMO they are exploiting the child’s situation for attention and notoriety. They are not shielding and protecting THIS child from public attention.

I strongly condemn these parents for what they’re doing, and especially bringing this to such a public platform—it’s not at all a good or noble, or conscientious thing, IMO. The child has a hard enough situation to deal with as she/ he enters adolescence and adulthood—the parents are making it much, much worse, IMO.
 
  • #27
Bravo K_Z!! Bravo!! Your post is exactly how I feel and could not express as eloquently as you did. A simple click on the thanks button was not enough!! Thank you! :thankyou:
 
  • #28
I have to wonder how much the fact the baby was in foster care at the time played into the doctors' decisions. Who was advocating for this child?
 
  • #29
Should a child with "lobster claw" syndrome not be treated until adulthood, so that the child can "choose" whether to surgically intervene? Should a child with cleft lip and palate be made to "wait" until adulthood to decide if their deformity should be treated-- to decide if they can talk more normally? Swallow? Should we make those kids go deaf from ear infections until they are old enough to decide if they wanted to keep their hearing? Should a child with clubfoot, or extra vestigial limbs be made to wait to adulthood to make decisions about their care, to decide if they want to try to be able to walk? Because these are valid questions, IMO, if we "decide" that kids with major intersex conditions should "wait" to have any intervention until they are "old enough" to decide.

Those things are not at all analogous in my mind.

What doctors did for this child 10 years ago was not a needless or frivolous genital mutilation. Good grief.

Can we say that without seeing the medical records?
 
  • #30
Those things are not at all analogous in my mind.

I totally agree. Treating those conditions is done for specifically medical reasons; a medical decision is made, and a medical procedure is completed.

With an intersex child, the problem is not medical -- it's social or psychological, if it's a problem at all. For the baby, it is not a problem, period.
 
  • #31
Some people are not going to understand this comparison, but the abandonment of me by my birth father and the subsequent life thereafter of emotional turmoil was the single most damaging and hurtful thing I've ever experienced. My "innateness" was to be a Daddy's girl, and the hole that was left was never filled. There was no one to ever bring me flowers to a recital. No father/daughter date nights or dances. No walk down the aisle by a man in a tuxedo on my wedding day. I wasn't cherished or protected. The list goes on and on. I suffered. I acted out as a teen. I felt incomplete. I will be 40 this year, and there are still sometimes when I talk about it that hot tears will well up before I can stop them.

Thankfully, I survived. I've concentrated on healing my broken heart, focusing on the future, and not dwelling on what cannot be changed. I'll never get to do it over again. There's no reason to keep looking back and mourning my loss, because that only keeps one foot in the sorrow that I saved myself from drowning in. No, it's not a physical deformity. But honestly, I think I would have rather had a physical deformity and a Daddy who loved me than what I did have.

Should I be able to sue? Didn't he have an obligation to me...and not just a financial one?

Most of us have a past imperfection. It may be physical, emotional, or both. But the one thing that will NEVER, EVER heal you is looking in reverse. No $$$ is going to fill that void or buy you back your life. No punishment....to doctors, social services, absent daddies, abusive homes... will undo the damage. We have to empower ourselves to move forward and heal. Lawsuits won't give you that. JMO
 
  • #32
But this is their child, no? And taking what steps they find necessary to help him is what being an involved, good parent is about. Something happened to him before he was a part of their lives. He was young and they weren't there and decisions were made and he was harmed. (Personally I don't buy 2005 as long enough ago to provide a valid excuse, but I know not all cultures arrive at certain destinations simultaneously.)

If they are his parents and love and accept him enough to do whatever it takes to get him some real help (nevermind they went into this adoption facing some atypical challenges as well as the more typical challenges that come with helping adopted/fostered children) I have to believe they are doing the right thing. I don't see them looking for fame (maybe it's coming, never know). I see them offering love and support to their child. Good parents. But they need assistance and to get it they have to go back to when and where the injuries took place.

You goofed, SC. You didn't fix anything. Now step up, pay up, and do what you can to help someone you were responsible for taking care of.

Again - the parents aren't looking for millions, right? Just enough to repair some damage. And theyhaven't released their child's name, is that right.

IMO a couple reaching out to open their hearts and home to a child get the same benefit of the doubt parents who go to the hospital to birth them, or parents who take in foster kids. Despite the horror stories, I believe most are motivated by love and compassion. Maybe, just maybe, this case can be a start. We have to make progress. 2005 wasn't that long ago and I assume some attitudes are stuck pre-2005.

This might be the longest comment I've written at WS and I wasn't sure where I stood. Sorry if I repeated myself. This is post nightly meds. Be kind! :)
 
  • #33
I see a distinct difference between neonatal surgery which aims to preserve or improve functionality and health, and neonatal surgery which is primarily to make the child fit a normality mold better. Say, if the child has deformed genitals that constitute a clear infection risk, surgical intervention may be completely warranted. But I see an ethical problem if unsightly bits are cut out just to make the intersex child look more like a girl or more like a boy, particularly if it goes against what the child's hormones are telling his or her brain about which gender s/he is.

JMO barring devastating complications, it's probably unlikely that a child who learned to walk after clawfoot surgery, is going to regret having the operation, miss the clawfoot and tell their parents or the doctors that it was the wrong thing to do.
 
  • #34
Some people are not going to understand this comparison, but the abandonment of me by my birth father and the subsequent life thereafter of emotional turmoil was the single most damaging and hurtful thing I've ever experienced. My "innateness" was to be a Daddy's girl, and the hole that was left was never filled. There was no one to ever bring me flowers to a recital. No father/daughter date nights or dances. No walk down the aisle by a man in a tuxedo on my wedding day. I wasn't cherished or protected. The list goes on and on. I suffered. I acted out as a teen. I felt incomplete. I will be 40 this year, and there are still sometimes when I talk about it that hot tears will well up before I can stop them.

Thankfully, I survived. I've concentrated on healing my broken heart, focusing on the future, and not dwelling on what cannot be changed. I'll never get to do it over again. There's no reason to keep looking back and mourning my loss, because that only keeps one foot in the sorrow that I saved myself from drowning in. No, it's not a physical deformity. But honestly, I think I would have rather had a physical deformity and a Daddy who loved me than what I did have.

Should I be able to sue? Didn't he have an obligation to me...and not just a financial one?

Most of us have a past imperfection. It may be physical, emotional, or both. But the one thing that will NEVER, EVER heal you is looking in reverse. No $$$ is going to fill that void or buy you back your life. No punishment....to doctors, social services, absent daddies, abusive homes... will undo the damage. We have to empower ourselves to move forward and heal. Lawsuits won't give you that. JMO

I was damaged in the military, but it took years to show up. I went backwards, to the Army and to the VA and got what I needed from them to move forward. Some $, but mostly treatment ( which since they took care of didn't involve more $.) without going back I wouldn't have had the tools and resources to empower myself and move forward.

This case (not mine) isn't a bad tattoo or faulty breast implant. This case is health (physical, mental, emotional), this is getting answers and resources to get the tools for empowerment. Sometimes, imo, there are no bootstraps to yank yourself up by.

I'm sorry what you went through. It's a familiar story to me, a painful and longterm loss. Could you have sued I don't know. some people can let go and move forward, some people need years of therapy. If a parent who abandoned a child has to answer for it I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think there's a difference for answering for mistakes, contrition, making up for what you can, and punishment. At least there can be.
 
  • #35
I don't believe this child was "damaged" in any way by the medical and surgical care he/ she received while in foster care.

If the child identified as female, the parents STILL say they would sue the doctors! That's just jaw dropping to me.

Basically, the adoptive parents are suing "just because" this child had ANY care at all. There is not a shred of evidence that the ABSENCE of surgical or medical care, would have been considered appropriate by any legal authorities.

In fact, if the child had NOT had any medical or surgical care at all, I think their lawsuit would have a LOT more chance of being successful.

Not doing anything is clearly NOT the best documented or researched course of action. The child was a legal and social orphan who received appropriate medical and social care for a major birth defect, IMO.

Where is the "damage" here?

The child is transgendered. He needs ongoing care and support for that, in addition to medical care for the genital condition. The care for the genital birth defect did not "cause" the transgendered situation, IMO. It's irrelevant to his transgendered situation, IMO. He was not a "normal" male who was mutilated, castrated, and rendered infertile, only to be presented as a "normal" female. This child very unfortunately has a major defect/ deformity of the reproductive system. Very likely the child is not "biologically able" to reproduce as either male or female, so preservation of one biological "assignment" is likely a moot point.

IMO, the parents have a serious issue with the child's transgendered situation-- not the genital birth defects, and subsequent the care for that. IMO, the lawsuit is a ruse for presenting their issues in a way that "blames" doctors, rather than accepting the child for whichever gender he or she decides to be.
 
  • #36
From the OP:
MC, who had been deemed a female by doctors, had surgery at 16 months to “correct” his status as intersex (having both male and female genitalia),

I disagree. This child would not be transgendered at all if the doctors wouldn't have arbitrarily decided they will make a female out of a child that has both genitals and male hormone levels, and an Y-Chromosome.

Yes, his genitals would still be abnormal, and he might stand out when boys compare their equipment and he might not be able to reproduce normally. But he would not be a female who feels like a male, he'd be a boy with a genital abnormality because of the intersex issues.
 
  • #37
Oh I assumed that he must have an Y chromosome because he used to have testicular tissue before the doctors got to him but buzzfeed says they found two X chromosomes.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/azeenghoray... decide what sex a child should be#.ju0vBrlKw

But usually babies must have the SRY gene (which is ordinarily on the Y chromosome) in order to develop testicular tissue so maybe he has some kind of mosaicism situation (different chromosomes in different cells) or part of Y chromosome got dislocated onto another chromosome


At M.C.’s birth, doctors recorded his sex as male. But they soon noted the infant’s ambiguous genitalia, and the presence of a “rudimentary” uterus that, they believed, could one day be used to bear children. His hormonal levels, however, were in the normal range for male babies, which raised the possibility that during prenatal development his brain had bathed in the high levels of testosterone that are typical for boys.

In his medical files, M.C.’s condition was initially described as “confusing,” though otherwise he was a healthy baby. After a DNA test found that he had two X chromosomes — the genetic definition of female — M.C. was described as such. But the verdict was still out on whether he should be raised as a girl.

In the doctors’ notes, sex-assignment surgery was almost always presented as a given, according to the legal complaint filed on behalf of Pam and Mark by the intersex advocacy group Advocates for Informed Choice and the Southern Poverty Law Center.

“Either sex of rearing is possible with appropriate surgery,” Yaw Appiagyei-Dankah, the endocrinologist, reportedly explained to the foster mom and social worker.

“My bias at the moment is towards female, although I have raised the possibility … that there may have been sufficient testosterone imprinting to question ultimate gender identity,” Ian Aaronson, the pediatric surgeon who ultimately performed M.C.’s surgery, wrote in his notes on Feb. 27, 2006.

Though both Aaronson and Appiagyei-Dankah said it was possible that M.C.’s hormones may have already set the course for the development of a more male identity, they eventually agreed that the infant should undergo genital surgery to live as a girl.

So they were fully aware that the baby's brain had quite probably had the male treatment and chose to make it a girl anyway, apparently without explicitly considering the option of doing nothing yet until the child's preferences were clear.

There doesn't seem to have been any immediately urgent health reason why the surgery couldn't wait. (Because they said "my bias" and "either sex is possible" and not "we must do A because horrible things will happen otherwise") It was done just because they couldn't bear the thought of raising a child in a more ambiguous situation.

Abnormal gonadal tissue may be a risk for later malignancy but it doesn't seem to have been the reason for this operation if they were saying either sex was possible.

Edit: his specific diagnosis :
The specific intersex condition he was born with, called ovotesticular disorder of sexual development, is rare. It only affects one in 83,000 infants, but an estimated one in 2,000 children are born with genitals that are “visibly intersex,” the World Health Organization reports.

There are several things that might go wrong to cause this:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/256289-clinical#b5

http://www.postandcourier.com/artic...ce-trial-in-rare-x2018-intersex-x2019-lawsuit

The medscape article author takes it for granted that everybody should be operated as a baby and seems to think that a female reassignment has better chances of success in terms of being able to procreate or have normal sexual function, so the doctors could quote it in their defense. The article is curiously silent about what degree of gender dysphoria these individuals may suffer. But even according to that article, MC's surgery was done way too late (the author recommends 3-6 months) and he was operated at 16 months. Reportedly most people who have this disorder get diagnosed in adolescence, identify as males and they are not reassigned.

So I think the odds were always good that MC would identify as male. He had testicular function and male hormones when it matters, in the fetal stages and during his early infancy.

This article says a male gender assignment is more usual (the follow up is only 20 patients though).
http://www.jurology.com/article/S0022-5347(13)05644-9/abstract
 
  • #38
So maybe deciding to do surgery to a baby is unfair. But I think waiting until adulthood is also unfair. Maybe deciding to do the surgery at 6 or 7 makes more sense. because many children seem to 'understand' which gender they identify with by then. IDK


Waiting until adulthood would be another kettle of worms that would also take away some of the child's choices I think, because of the puberty and all the changes that are triggered by whichever hormones are active in the youngster's body at the time. For instance if someone identifies as a male, it could be confusing to start menstruating and developing breasts.Or if there is a female identity she might not want to grow a mustache and get a deepening voice.
 
  • #39
I have no idea about such things, but was it easier for the doctors to "make" this child a female rather than a male?
From your link above:
"Pam Crawford’s first thought was that she hoped MC had not undergone a surgery, but much to their dismay, they found he had, being officially assigned the gender of female."
Poor kid.
jmo

Yes, it's a lot easier surgically to convert the child into a female.
 
  • #40
Having SRY is not necessary to develop testicular tissue.

"Surprisingly, more than half of the patients with XX ovotesticular disorder of sexual development lack SRY, despite the presence of testicular differentiation."
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/256289-clinical#b5
 

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