Pat Brown compares Lisa case to other cases.

[cityslick]

Someone posted it above and I just read it. It is a huge jump she is making, and her claims are incorrect, yet people appear to be basing their opinions on what she says. has she actually actively worked on this case - interviewed the mother looked at her medical notes etc. It is also a huge jump to get a masters in criminal justice and then claim to be able to disgnose mental health and causes of death (unnatural death via SIDs) without ever speaking to a person who reading their notes. Even actual medical rpofessionals require these to make diagnoses.

BBM

Simply put.......no

 

[Donjeta]

Someone posted it above and I just read it. It is a huge jump she is making, and her claims are incorrect, yet people appear to be basing their opinions on what she says. has she actually actively worked on this case - interviewed the mother looked at her medical notes etc. It is also a huge jump to get a masters in criminal justice and then claim to be able to disgnose mental health and causes of death (unnatural death via SIDs) without ever speaking to a person who reading their notes. Even actual medical rpofessionals require these to make diagnoses.

I agree with you that it is unwise to make mental health diagnoses without the proper qualifications and contact with the client but I don't think that she claims to be able to diagnose unnatural death via SIDS. In that bit she's talking in general terms about the mothers who are known to have killed their babies, not saying anything about her own personal ability to say that a particular baby didn't really die of SIDS as the mother claimed. She also presents the MSBP option for DB as speculative, not as a certain diagnosis. It's still overreaching and I disagree with her, I just don't see the evidence, but I don't see her making any claims about anybody's cause of death.

 

[~n/t~]

Pat Brown said...
Both MSP and MSBP are labels given to a woman with a very high narcissistic streak, often psychopathy (which is the highest level of narcissism).

Miscarriages are often a trademark of MSP or MSBP; they are easy to claim and easy to get lots of sympathy for. The worst cases of MSBP involve a female serial killer who uses her own babies as victims; she gets power, control, and attention by getting pregnant, giving birth, and then getting even more attention when the baby "dies of SIDS." Then, she gets a fun funeral event and then goes back to the bed and creates the next victim.

Sorry just read this, and had to comment. What a load of ill-informed rubbish. Miscarriages are not easy to fake, and she cannot claim that a baby dying of SIDs is a sign of a mental health problem in the mother and imply the mother actually caused the death. Not one bit of independent research has ever demonstrated this.
I fail to see how a criminal justice masters has qualified her to make declarations about personality disorders, psycopathy, miscarriages, SIDs, and mental health.

Do you have a link to that comment? I somehow think it's being taken out of context. I'd like to read it in its entirety. TIA

 

[Cappuccino]

BBM

Simply put.......no

Has she worked on any of the cases to which she's comparing Lisa's case?

 

[~n/t~]

I agree with you that it is unwise to make mental health diagnoses without the proper qualifications and contact with the client but I don't think that she claims to be able to diagnose unnatural death via SIDS. In that bit she's talking in general terms about the mothers who are known to have killed their babies, not saying anything about her own personal ability to say that a particular baby didn't really die of SIDS as the mother claimed. She also presents the MSBP option for DB as speculative, not as a certain diagnosis. It's still overreaching and I disagree with her, I just don't see the evidence, but I don't see her making any claims about anybody's cause of death.

Thought so. Thanks.

 

[brit1981]

I still think she went too far, and the language she uses is not professional (if it really is her, and surely if she is a profesional she would not speak like that). In the Uk at least after the meadows scandal the theory that cot death was really unnatural causes has been thrown out of the window. The fact that cot death went from 300 a year to 300 a yera after the advice on sleeping position changed also helped to discount the theory.
Even making a speculative disgnosis is hugely unprofessional.

 

[~n/t~]

Has she worked on any of the cases to which she's comparing Lisa's case?

Oh big time on the Madeline McCann case. She even went to Praia de Luz in Portugal to check for herself and has written a book.

That said, I don't think these 2 cases are at all similar.

 

[brit1981]

Do you have a link to that comment? I somehow think it's being taken out of context. I'd like to read it in its entirety. TIA

I just got it from a poster above. whoever wrote it really did not know their stuff. Wondering if it was someone pretending to be her to try and make her look an idiot.

 

[Cappuccino]

Oh big time on the Madeline McCann case. She even went to Praia de Luz in Portugal to check for herself and has written a book.

That said, I don't think these 2 cases are at all similar.

When I say worked on, I mean officially employed as a profiler by LE.

 

[brit1981]

Oh big time on the Madeline McCann case. She even went to Praia de Luz in Portugal to check for herself and has written a book.

That said, I don't think these 2 cases are at all similar.

As far as I am aware she never worked on the madeleine mccann case professionally. She has never been employed by scotland yard, the PJ etc. Anyone could turn up in PDl, and say they have worked on the case. As she is not employed on the case by anyone involved she does not have access to the full case files, or the information scotland yard have. can anyone correct me on that, was she employed by the PJ, or scotland yard on the case. And I read some of her stuff oni last night and she did not seem to know a lot about it, or about Portuguese or Uk law. And again she started making diagnosis of someone's health without ever having seen them or interviewing them. I did read she went and dug up public land. i really hope that is not true because it is illegal to do that, especially if you think you have evidence you could uncover a crime. You could becharged with interfering with a criminal investigation, witholding evidence etc as well as the actual charge relating to the digging up of public property. Does anyone know if that is true.

 

[Donjeta]

I still think she went too far, and the language she uses is not professional (if it really is her, and surely if she is a profesional she would not speak like that). In the Uk at least after the meadows scandal the theory that cot death was really unnatural causes has been thrown out of the window. The fact that cot death went from 300 a year to 300 a yera after the advice on sleeping position changed also helped to discount the theory.
Even making a speculative disgnosis is hugely unprofessional.

I don't think Pat Brown was saying that her theory is that cot death is really unnatural causes, generally. She is talking about a few deranged mothers who use the SIDS explanation to cover up murder. The vast majority of families affected by SIDS are no doubt utterly grief-stricken but there are always dishonest exceptions to the rule.

This blog is where the comment came from (far down in the comment section)
http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2011/10/baby-lisa-gone-baby-gone.html

 

[brit1981]

I don't think Pat Brown was saying that her theory is that cot death is really unnatural causes, generally. She is talking about a few deranged mothers who use the SIDS explanation to cover up murder. The vast majority of families affected by SIDS are no doubt utterly grief-stricken but there are always dishonest exceptions to the rule.

This blog is where the comment came from (far down in the comment section)
http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2011/10/baby-lisa-gone-baby-gone.html

She still came across as unprofessional, and not very knowledgable. What did she took read a few cheap books on personality disorders.

 

[~n/t~]

When I say worked on, I mean officially employed as a profiler by LE.

Oh sorry. I misunderstood. I'm "friends" with her on facebook and if I have time today after the Drew Peterson trial, I'll ask.

 

[~n/t~]

As far as I am aware she never worked on the madeleine mccann case professionally. She has never been employed by scotland yard, the PJ etc. Anyone could turn up in PDl, and say they have worked on the case. As she is not employed on the case by anyone involved she does not have access to the full case files, or the information scotland yard have. can anyone correct me on that, was she employed by the PJ, or scotland yard on the case. And I read some of her stuff oni last night and she did not seem to know a lot about it, or about Portuguese or Uk law. And again she started making diagnosis of someone's health without ever having seen them or interviewing them. I did read she went and dug up public land. i really hope that is not true because it is illegal to do that, especially if you think you have evidence you could uncover a crime. You could becharged with interfering with a criminal investigation, witholding evidence etc as well as the actual charge relating to the digging up of public property. Does anyone know if that is true.

Actually, she did no such thing and as a matter of fact posted a blog about it. Scroll down to : To dig or not to dig.

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.ca/

 

[brit1981]

Actually, she did no such thing and as a matter of fact posted a blog about it. Scroll down to : To dig or not to dig.

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.ca/

Ah Ok, I had read somewhere that she did go looking for a body in a public area, that would have been illegal beyond belief. can you imagine the coversation with the PJ - so you just happened to travel thouands of miles, just happened to decide to spend your holiday digging up areas of public property, and just happened to find a body - there was not any information you should have shared was there??

Edit: I just read an old tweet of hers that says
"PAT BROWN ‏@ProfilerPatB

Why I believe Madeleine McCann is buried, in Monte do Jose Mestre & if I get the funds, I will search it. #McCann"

She is not allowed to just go an search public property (unless it involves just looking and no digging), and once she sets foor it Portugal or the UK she is not allowed to woithold evidence or to interfere with an investigation by making her own searches. All she is legally allowed to do is pass on the information she has to the police.

 

[Donjeta]

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2012/03/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-find.html

this post says she was in Portugal with a retired British police officer and did some digging.
Didn't find anything, apparently.

Should this continue in the Madeleine forum since it's nothing to do with Lisa any more?

 

[Sabot]

As far as I am aware she never worked on the madeleine mccann case professionally. She has never been employed by scotland yard, the PJ etc. Anyone could turn up in PDl, and say they have worked on the case. As she is not employed on the case by anyone involved she does not have access to the full case files, or the information scotland yard have. can anyone correct me on that, was she employed by the PJ, or scotland yard on the case. And I read some of her stuff oni last night and she did not seem to know a lot about it, or about Portuguese or Uk law. And again she started making diagnosis of someone's health without ever having seen them or interviewing them. I did read she went and dug up public land. i really hope that is not true because it is illegal to do that, especially if you think you have evidence you could uncover a crime. You could becharged with interfering with a criminal investigation, witholding evidence etc as well as the actual charge relating to the digging up of public property. Does anyone know if that is true.

Actually, she and her cohort went digging around on an Ancient Portuguese Burial Site. She seemed quite disappointed when they didn't find anything.

 

[badhorsie]

Actually, she and her cohort went digging around on an Ancient Portuguese Burial Site. She seemed quite disappointed when they didn't find anything.

Link please, I have not heard of this.

FWIW I have never known a case attract so many nutters as the MM case both "pro" and "anti"

 

[brit1981]

I just read the link above and she does say she went to a spot she though had religious significance and got her friend to dig! OMG if they had been caught they would have been arrested, especialy if they then had to tell them it was because they were trying to dig up a body. And if they had found anything they would have destroyed any chance of getting a conviction out of anyone - two people who do not even have access to all the police files just happen to pick the exact spot the body was found in, the defence would have a field day with that one. The guy she was with is not anyone connected to the case just some random she met on the internet. If you have information just give it to the police, do not go digging up burial grounds in foreign countries! Plus what is she talking about pinging of gerry's 'phone, the police found nothing suspicious about his 'phone. The ironic thing is that by writing like she has about the mccanns she has helped to ensure that even if the mccanns were guilty it would probably never go to trial in the EU because of prejudicial material having been made available.

On another off topic note, i see on her bog she has dclared that ABB, the peson ebhind the Norway attacks is a mass murderer not a terrorist. Might be news to Norway as they charged him with terrorism.

Anyway back to brown in general - has she ever actually worked on a case with the LE?
Although this went off topic by talking about the mccann case, I do think if brown has been talking and writing about lisa's disappearence as if she is an expert then it is on topic to question this expertise. I do not know if she is considered an expert by the general public or LE in the US, for all I know the FBI regularly call her in to advise them, but if her opinions are being used as a basis for internet theories then her knowledge and expertise should certainly be questioned. If she was ever to give testimony in court the defence would certainly question it as they do with all expert witnesses.

 

[Donjeta]

It's a far cry from expert testimony, it's a random blog comment. Just food for thought, to be dismissed if there is no evidence to support it.

If she works a case professionally I think they probably wouldn't like her to write about it in her blog so I think it's pretty safe to assume that anything she blogs about isn't something she's involved in with the investigative team.