UK Patricia 'Patsy' Joyce Morris, 14, strangled with a ligature made from a pair of tights, on Hounslow Heath, London, 16 June 1980

[tes1984]

The police tried to track all the men playing golf there that day, but apparently a lot of them didn't come forward.

In 1980 the police could hold people for a couple of days interrogation, so perhaps some witnesses didn't come forward in case they got the good cop/bad cop treatment.

 

[tes1984]

Never seem to hear mention of DNA of forensics in this case which is a bit of worry.

 

[jojojaja]

WHO DID KILL PATSY?

UNSOLVED MURDER CASE RE-OPENED AFTER 16 YEARS

The Hounslow Chronicle

Thursday 11 July 1996

A man was arrested on Monday regarding a 16 year old unsolved murder case.

A 33 year old man was arrested at Hounslow bus station on a tip off. Yet it says a home was raided by police at 7.20am, he must not have been home then.

Taken to Brentford police station he was released on bail with no charge and is due to report back to them August 22.

Patsy, the youngest of 4 children had never left the minds of her family. Patsy's father a chef at barracks was hopeful the culprit might finally be caught and his daughter could rest in peace.
Patsy's father said when she originally disappeared he had tried to remain optimistic for those few days until she was found and read stories of people who had returned after going missing.
He said she was just coming into her prime then she had a funeral and can't even rest in peace.
The new events had stirred things up and it was just like when they first lost her again, his wife was distraught.

An officer who was on the original case found in deep thicket bear the gold course.

Patsy had visited somewhere before she was found and bought some sweets.

There were no other injuries other than strangulation.

Patsy was found in her school clothes, navy blue skirt, white blouse, a pale blue v neck jumper, high heel sandals, earrings and necklace

 

[jojojaja]

The police tried to track all the men playing golf there that day, but apparently a lot of them didn't come forward.

In 1980 the police could hold people for a couple of days interrogation, so perhaps some witnesses didn't come forward in case they got the good cop/bad cop treatment.

I am often not surprised when people didn't come forward on these cases, especially in the 80s and before, the way of interrogation wasn't so kind. Especially before cameras and tape recorders. There was more racism on the force too.

I think this particular man, dressed in blue, scruffy, was of interest because he was not only different, didn't quite fit in, but the description of the man at he bus stop sounds like the same person. They didn't arrest anyone in the 1980s.

The man arrested in the 90s, 33 years old means he was around 17 when she was killed?
Can't have been the golfer.



We obviously know he wasn't charged as it's still a cold case.

 

[jojojaja]

MURDER ENQUIRY

Hounslow & Chiswick Informer

06 November 1980

The police wish to trace a golfer seen on the 16th green of the municipal golf course, adjacent to Hounslow Heath. The man is in his thirties, stocky and was collecting golf balls in a brown nylon stocking on 16th June at 2pm. This man may have observed something that may help.

I am guessing they're mostly interested in the brown nylon stocking, information they obviously didn't make public back then.

 

[Kittypoo]

Never seem to hear mention of DNA of forensics in this case which is a bit of worry.

In 1980?

 

[jojojaja]

Never seem to hear mention of DNA of forensics in this case which is a bit of worry.

In 1980?

Probably no evidence left to test maybe, or it wasn't stored in conditions viable to test.
The bindings at least should have been kept to test.

@Kittypoo many cases have been solved by the police re-examining exhibits from the crime for DNA testing. Sometimes more than once as the science of DNA testing improves. They can't do anything if things are lost or destroyed.

Always amazes me, the British police ability to lose property, let alone evidence. No idea how the rest of the world is.

 

[jojojaja]

New lead in girl's murder

Cambridge Daily News

20 June 1980

A neighbour confirmed that she saw Patsy in the street heading towards her home at 11.55pm, Patsy was soaked with rain.

Maybe the neighbour who suggested Patsy was going home, without realising she had forgotten her key to get in.

 

[tes1984]

Probably no evidence left to test maybe, or it wasn't stored in conditions viable to test.
The bindings at least should have been kept to test.

@Kittypoo many cases have been solved by the police re-examining exhibits from the crime for DNA testing. Sometimes more than once as the science of DNA testing improves. They can't do anything if things are lost or destroyed.

Always amazes me, the British police ability to lose property, let alone evidence. No idea how the rest of the world is.

Jessie Earle was killed in Eastbourne a month before Patsy was killed in London.

Both were found in undergrowth. Jessie's murder was originally considered an open verdict and in 1997 the police threw out the forensics.

Unfortunately the evidence has gone AWOL in a lot of UK cases.

 

[jojojaja]

Jessie Earle was killed in Eastbourne a month before Patsy was killed in London.

Both were found in undergrowth. Jessie's murder was originally considered an open verdict and in 1997 the police threw out the forensics.

Unfortunately the evidence has gone AWOL in a lot of UK cases.

I think their system of keeping things needs an overhaul.
It's important, especially to their families and loved ones.

Even property recovered from theft seems to vanish in their hands, I know that first hand

 

[Cartie]

Bellfield was 1st arrested for murder late 2004, so a good 24 years after Patsy's death did he become well know as a murderer, I get the feeling that ex-school friends saying they knew each other or dated is very unreliable. Further up the thread it was said that he wasn't even at that school yet. Also, Colin Sutton, lead detective on Bellfields case, has not put stuff out there. Colin loves media attention lol.

As for adults nylon tight being worn by a 14yr old, it is very possible, I was born in 1973 and we all wore them for school around that age.

I do wander if the fact that she wasn't sexually assault is because either he were disturbed or she was struggling and making too much noise.

jmo

 

[jojojaja]

Bellfield was 1st arrested for murder late 2004, so a good 24 years after Patsy's death did he become well know as a murderer, I get the feeling that ex-school friends saying they knew each other or dated is very unreliable. Further up the thread it was said that he wasn't even at that school yet. Also, Colin Sutton, lead detective on Bellfields case, has not put stuff out there. Colin loves media attention lol.

As for adults nylon tight being worn by a 14yr old, it is very possible, I was born in 1973 and we all wore them for school around that age.

I do wander if the fact that she wasn't sexually assault is because either he were disturbed or she was struggling and making too much noise.

jmo

I think there may have been more than one pair of tights involved. Wow at brown nylon tights being worn for school, I don't remember anyone doing that, but that may be my memory playing up. I remember dark woolly tights.

The year after this I believe Levi's first theft offence. There are many requests in the paper of the time identifying people in the area, I haven't even reported all if them, there were if I remember correctly 2 people, maybe youths, on motorcycles, I don't know if that's a mistake as separately Unread about 1 on a motorcycle seen in the southern part of the heath.
There are no descriptions that scream Bellfield.

Yes I made that post where it said he wasn't attending the school at the same time as Patsy, I didn't make anything of it as there was nothing substantiating it one way or the other. I don't have access to those records.

I have tried to make it clear that I try to keep an open mind, the police are supposed to also. If you lean too much into a set way of thinking you can miss stuff. That doesn't mean I don't find some things more convincing than others.
Having read a lot about this case now, I am dubious about Bellfield too. It's not enough even if she knew him, which she may have done through kids playing together out of school, knowing someone who killed people and then getting killed doesn't automatically make them the killer.
There is only that one girl who claimed to be Levi's friend, that has come forward as an adult saying they knew each other. Where did her friends go?

 

[jojojaja]

Bellfield was 1st arrested for murder late 2004, so a good 24 years after Patsy's death did he become well know as a murderer, I get the feeling that ex-school friends saying they knew each other or dated is very unreliable. Further up the thread it was said that he wasn't even at that school yet. Also, Colin Sutton, lead detective on Bellfields case, has not put stuff out there. Colin loves media attention lol.

As for adults nylon tight being worn by a 14yr old, it is very possible, I was born in 1973 and we all wore them for school around that age.

I do wander if the fact that she wasn't sexually assault is because either he were disturbed or she was struggling and making too much noise.

jmo

I'll also add things whether I believe them or not, if they are relevant to the case and discussion. Sometimes they have to be mentioned even if they're dismissed.

I doubt this case will ever be solved if they have no DNA to test.
Confessions aren't even much good, without other things that make the confession believable, like knowing things not made public, establishing you were present etc.

 

[Konstantin]

I think a lot of tabloid journalists don't like letting the truth get in the way of a good story.

A lot of UK criminologists aren't much better these days. If an unsolved murder wasn't Bellfield, then it must have been Tobin or Sutcliffe...

Or JC and if it happened when JC was in prison, no problem - JC masterminded it from the inside.

 

[jojojaja]

Bellfield was 1st arrested for murder late 2004, so a good 24 years after Patsy's death did he become well know as a murderer, I get the feeling that ex-school friends saying they knew each other or dated is very unreliable. Further up the thread it was said that he wasn't even at that school yet. Also, Colin Sutton, lead detective on Bellfields case, has not put stuff out there. Colin loves media attention lol.

As for adults nylon tight being worn by a 14yr old, it is very possible, I was born in 1973 and we all wore them for school around that age.

I do wander if the fact that she wasn't sexually assault is because either he were disturbed or she was struggling and making too much noise.

jmo

It just occurred to me, just because that's when LB was known to have first killed, doesn't mean it's when he started. He was around 34-35, that's late for a serial killer.
I haven't checked the dates of some of the other women they believe he may have killed, I think they may have been after 2002 though.
Serial killers don't just become that overnight, other crimes/asb escalate along the way.

 

[tes1984]

It just occurred to me, just because that's when LB was known to have first killed, doesn't mean it's when he started. He was around 34-35, that's late for a serial killer.
I haven't checked the dates of some of the other women they believe he may have killed, I think they may have been after 2002 though.
Serial killers don't just become that overnight, other crimes/asb escalate along the way.

Mid 30s isn't particularly late for a serial killer to start murdering.

LB had the classic escalation crimes of violence and dishonesty, then abduction, kidnapping and of course rape.

 

[jojojaja]

Mid 30s isn't particularly late for a serial killer to start murdering.

LB had the classic escalation crimes of violence and dishonesty, then abduction, kidnapping and of course rape.

He practised abduction and kidnap before?
I know partners spoke of violence and rape.
Criminologists generally put it earlier for people to start serial killing. So it is later than usual. Why would they not say 35 otherwise? I've seen them remark when people's ages fit into or out of usual timespans.
Seems I am wrong to take what they say into consideration.

 

[tes1984]

He practised abduction and kidnap before?
I know partners spoke of violence and rape.
Criminologists generally put it earlier for people to start serial killing. So it is later than usual. Why would they not say 35 otherwise? I've seen them remark when people's ages fit into or out of usual timespans.
Seems I am wrong to take what they say into consideration.

Some serial killers do start early, but mid 30s is nothing out of the ordinary.

Going by first known murders, Colin Ireland and Steve Wright were late 30s, Christopher Halliwell and Peter Tobin were mid 40s etc...

Bellfield was raping women for years, and was part of a paedophile gang who groomed schoolgirls from care homes. He raped a vulnerable woman in front of his bouncer mates and attempted a kidnapping before his first known murder.

 

[dotr]

Probably more than one potential perp came from whatever ''was in the water'' that created Bellfield, maybe an unknown enemy of the family? speculation, imo.
2019 rbbm.

Murder of Hounslow girl remains a mystery almost 40 years on

Her death has been linked to some of Britain's most notorious serial killers

www.mylondon.news

'George Morris, Patsy's father, spoke out about his fears that Bellfield could have been responsible for the killing.

He revealed that after his daughter's murder he received a death threat from a teenage boy over the phone - which retrospectively led him to wonder whether it could have been Bellfield.

According to local media , police discovered that Bellfield joined the school after Patsy's death and was actually enrolled at The Rectory, in Hampton, at the time of her murder.'

Murder of Patsy Morris - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This page was last edited on 2 April 2025

 

[tes1984]

Years later, Patsy's father was suspicious that Peter Tobin might be the killer.