Patsys Clothes?

[Ames]

JMO8778,



No Patsy could not predict the future. She was upstairs and JonBenet was downstairs, the person to discover JonBenet was John, not Patsy.

At 6AM Patsy did not know come 7AM whether she would be sitting in a police interview room, or still waiting for JonBenet to be found?

Wearing those same clothes links her directly to wine-cellar crime-scene, so accounting for fiber evidence cannot be the motive.

Lack of time is a possible reason, but its doubtfull since it probably takes the same time to dress fresh than old?

I suspect the real reason Patsy was dressed in worn clothes was because she had intended to dump JonBenet's body outdoors, using the car, and wearing yesterdays clothing would be consistent with any fibers discovered?



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No, she wouldn't have known WHO would have found JB, or what time the body was going to be found. BUT she would have known that SOMEBODY was going to find JB's body, and when they did, she was going to fling herself on her (and as stated in one of her interviews...I will try and find the link...she DID explain that, saying that OF COURSE her clothes fibers were on JB, because she had thrown herself on the body! Which, IMO...is what she had every intention of doing right from the start..to explain away those pesky fibers).

 

[Ames]

Just wanted to apologize for my posts taking up almost a whole page. I have just been catching up!!!

 

[JMO8778]

I have never staged a crime scene and killed a child, either....BUT.. I believe that I would be too caught up in the moment, and way to panicked...to remember to take my jacket off. I think that all of this happened pretty quickly, and in the heat of the moment...Patsy simply forgot to remove her jacket. (IMO)

Yes,I think ppl don't realize the adrenaline rush to the brain and what it does to their train of thought,they tend to get so focused on one thing, that they forget about everything else.
So it was with Fleet White as well ...he went to dial 911 after JB was found..he was in such a panic that he wasn't thinking clearly.That's one reason why I don't think he had a darn thing to do with it...his reaction was that of sheer panic and surprise.

 

[JMO8778]

Sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me. By the way...I am originally from SOUTH Carolina!! (I see that you are in NC).

Hi ! And welcome ..I'm so jealous...I LOVE SC,esp. myrtle beach,it's my fav vacation spot! And I got married in Dillon, SC.

 

[UKGuy]

No, she wouldn't have known WHO would have found JB, or what time the body was going to be found. BUT she would have known that SOMEBODY was going to find JB's body, and when they did, she was going to fling herself on her (and as stated in one of her interviews...I will try and find the link...she DID explain that, saying that OF COURSE her clothes fibers were on JB, because she had thrown herself on the body! Which, IMO...is what she had every intention of doing right from the start..to explain away those pesky fibers).

Ames,

The plan was for someone other than a Ramsey to discover JonBenet's corpse. John after realizing this may not happen and ruin the effects of any prior staging at a later time, decided to discover JonBenet's corpse.

If as planned, law enforcement had discovered JonBenet's corpse, she would have been left in-place, and the basement cordoned off. All three Ramsey's would have been detained for questioning!

There is absolutely no way Patsy could have planned in advance to fling herself upon JonBenet, she never knew who would discover JonBenet or when, she was upstairs and JonBenet was downstairs!

imo Patsy was dressed to leave the house, probably by car, with the intention of dumping JonBenet, this is consistent with JonBenet being wrapped in blankets, and the writing of the ransom note, imo a revision to a prior staging.




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[UKGuy]

Yes,I think ppl don't realize the adrenaline rush to the brain and what it does to their train of thought,they tend to get so focused on one thing, that they forget about everything else.
So it was with Fleet White as well ...he went to dial 911 after JB was found..he was in such a panic that he wasn't thinking clearly.That's one reason why I don't think he had a darn thing to do with it...his reaction was that of sheer panic and surprise.

JMO8778,

I guess Fleet White recognized some aspect of JonBenet's staging that was completely out of place, he saw it for what it was, so wanted to dial 911. One day soon I think Fleet White will go public with what he knows, since he may recognize deferred justice, is of no consequence to a retired millionaire.


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[UKGuy]

Could be,or she didn't change b/c she didn't think to? She was busy revising the note while JR showered?It does seem they were running out of time,since the 911 call came in rather late,per their previous plans to fly out of state.Do we know all there is to know about fiber evidence,or is something possibly being held back from the public?
I've always wondered if the wine cellar or basement(or even the upper floors) were sprayed with luminol to ck for any blood wiped away(since there was blood found wiped away on JB?)
If JR did it,then I can't understand why on earth she would cover for him.

JMO8778,

The motive for killing JonBenet may be sexual, and Patsy may have been party to this, either passively or actively e.g. pageants etc. John may have told Patsy if I am convicted then so will you!

I have always considered the blankets to be an important piece of forensic evidence, partially because they should contain trace fibers from whomever deposited JonBenet into the wine-cellar, current speculation favors fibers from Patsy, and this evidence may be being held back?

imo there are three possibilities for WDI, either BDI, John and Patsy Did It, or all three conspired together.

The first option BDI explains why the parents may cover for Burke. The second is the most likely, and the last a variant on the second.

If PDI without John knowing then he would be free to fake shock and suggest a sexually motivated intruder assault to mask any prior abuse, but proposed to Patsy as a Get Out Of Jail card, after a successful staging he does not need to stand by Patsy, he could even plea bargain his way out, hence all the separate legal representation.

The last option suggests a fully dysfunctional family life with JonBenet regularly being sexually abused, curiously nobody has asked was Burke being abused, he also wet the bed, had the same mother and father, and lived in the same house?


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[Show Me]

A thought just occured to me, that maybe when the investigators arrived, she thought that she MUST be pretty stinky, from all of that ransom note writing, and staged coverup stuff, so she told them that she didn't take a shower....coupled with the fact that she was wearing the same outfit as the day before. THUS...covering her butt on the fiber evidence, and her stinkiness. Does this make sense??

Bingo Ames....makes sense to me! Especially when Thomas found out she was wearing the same outfit that morning....how to explain it.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

I guess Fleet White recognized some aspect of JonBenet's staging that was completely out of place, he saw it for what it was, so wanted to dial 911. One day soon I think Fleet White will go public with what he knows, since he may recognize deferred justice, is of no consequence to a retired millionaire.


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I always thought it was from the shock of finding JB.But anyway,I wonder if FW will talk if JR passes away bf he does?But then again,there would be BR to think about,and he may want to spare his feelings.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

The motive for killing JonBenet may be sexual, and Patsy may have been party to this, either passively or actively e.g. pageants etc. John may have told Patsy if I am convicted then so will you!

I have always considered the blankets to be an important piece of forensic evidence, partially because they should contain trace fibers from whomever deposited JonBenet into the wine-cellar, current speculation favors fibers from Patsy, and this evidence may be being held back?

imo there are three possibilities for WDI, either BDI, John and Patsy Did It, or all three conspired together.

The first option BDI explains why the parents may cover for Burke. The second is the most likely, and the last a variant on the second.

If PDI without John knowing then he would be free to fake shock and suggest a sexually motivated intruder assault to mask any prior abuse, but proposed to Patsy as a Get Out Of Jail card, after a successful staging he does not need to stand by Patsy, he could even plea bargain his way out, hence all the separate legal representation.

The last option suggests a fully dysfunctional family life with JonBenet regularly being sexually abused, curiously nobody has asked was Burke being abused, he also wet the bed, had the same mother and father, and lived in the same house?


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The most logical explanation that fits is PR did it;she struck out at JB when she found JR molesting her.Then there is a reason for both of them covering for the other.Or maybe they got into an argument over something else,and PR struck out at JB.If JR did it,I don't know why PR wouldnt be angry enough to turn him in.PR didn't seem to be angry at JR tho,unless she kept quiet out of fear.
Good q about BR.I think if he had been removed from the home,one of them would have started talking pretty fast.

 

[Jayelles]

The most logical explanation that fits is PR did it;she struck out at JB when she found JR molesting her.Then there is a reason for both of them covering for the other.Or maybe they got into an argument over something else,and PR struck out at JB.If JR did it,I don't know why PR wouldnt be angry enough to turn him in.PR didn't seem to be angry at JR tho,unless she kept quiet out of fear.
Good q about BR.I think if he had been removed from the home,one of them would have started talking pretty fast.

I disagree. I think the most illogical explanation is that Patsy did it. I think JonBenet's murderer hated her with a passion.

However, I do blame John Ramsey for the Ramsey's lack of co-operation. I think Patsy would have done whatever was necessary. We have no record of Patsy refusing anything - only John. I believe we also only have John's word that his lawyers advised him to refuse to speak with police. I don't recall that his lawyers ever made any statements about that. John Ramsey has a history of blaming others for his mistakes. That is a personal trait I abhor.

 

[Show Me]

Show Me,



Does this mean Patsy rose to deal with JonBenet wetting the bed, so decided to redress in yesterdays clothes, or did she get dressed prior to applying the garrote to JonBenet down in the basement?

Or did she never go to bed, nor get undressed, so does this mean she killed JonBenet while fully dressed?

Something does not quite add up here?



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I think Patsy never changed her clothes and she was up all night.

 

[Show Me]

LOL...extremely fond of it! She didn't want to part with it, did she? Hmmmm....I wonder why an "innocent" person wouldn't want to just hand their clothes over?

Priorities Ames...priorities....when you look that good!

Poor Ramseys were bugged to death by the cops wanting to solve the murder of their child....cops wanted phone records, clothing....you'd think the cops can solve a murder without inconviencing the Ramseys!

Maybe John was trying to get the most work out of all those expensive lawyers he hired....never understood the need for the ex wife to have one too, but hey John's generous.

 

[julianne]

Okay, someone clear this up for me, and I apologize if it has already been mentioned...

I seem to remember that yes, Patsy didn't turn over her clothes until after a year or so after the murder, but that she wasn't ASKED or requested to turn those over until over a year after the murder. In other words, she turned them over as soon as she was asked, but wasn't asked for over a year.

Right? Wrong?

 

[Ames]

Ames,

The plan was for someone other than a Ramsey to discover JonBenet's corpse. John after realizing this may not happen and ruin the effects of any prior staging at a later time, decided to discover JonBenet's corpse.

If as planned, law enforcement had discovered JonBenet's corpse, she would have been left in-place, and the basement cordoned off. All three Ramsey's would have been detained for questioning!

There is absolutely no way Patsy could have planned in advance to fling herself upon JonBenet, she never knew who would discover JonBenet or when, she was upstairs and JonBenet was downstairs!

imo Patsy was dressed to leave the house, probably by car, with the intention of dumping JonBenet, this is consistent with JonBenet being wrapped in blankets, and the writing of the ransom note, imo a revision to a prior staging.




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Yes, she could have been planning to dump the body...that is a thought. But, I still think that in her mind, that whenever JB's body was "discovered", and it didn't matter by who, she had planned, at some point....to fling herself on her and to say..."Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead...please raise my baby". She said something like that, if not word for word. I am sure that she rehearsed that little speech too. (IMO)

 

[Ames]

I think Patsy never changed her clothes and she was up all night.

So do I!!

 

[Ames]

Priorities Ames...priorities....when you look that good!

Poor Ramseys were bugged to death by the cops wanting to solve the murder of their child....cops wanted phone records, clothing....you'd think the cops can solve a murder without inconviencing the Ramseys!

Maybe John was trying to get the most work out of all those expensive lawyers he hired....never understood the need for the ex wife to have one too, but hey John's generous.

HA... yes, how DARE those darn investigators ask for the clothing that the Ramsey's wore the night their daughter was murdered! They just weren't very cooperative, now were they??

 

[JMO8778]

Yes, she could have been planning to dump the body...that is a thought. But, I still think that in her mind, that whenever JB's body was "discovered", and it didn't matter by who, she had planned, at some point....to fling herself on her and to say..."Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead...please raise my baby". She said something like that, if not word for word. I am sure that she rehearsed that little speech too. (IMO)

It sure sounds rehearsed.
I believe if PR hadn't already known JB was dead,she would have been clinging to her body,to the point of someone having to pry her off.I also think she and JR both would have accompanied her body to the morgue,and if it was true that she 'couldn't walk' I beleive she would have had someone put her in a wheelchair and push her over there! Perhaps she would have had her sisters and other family or friends come along with her.Her behavior points twds guilt,not innocence.No script needed.Red flags were definately raised.And that was just the beginning.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, she could have been planning to dump the body...that is a thought. But, I still think that in her mind, that whenever JB's body was "discovered", and it didn't matter by who, she had planned, at some point....to fling herself on her and to say..."Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead...please raise my baby". She said something like that, if not word for word. I am sure that she rehearsed that little speech too. (IMO)

Ames,

Patsy may never have had the opportunity to fling herself upon JonBenet. JonBenet's corpse was downstairs in the basement and Patsy was upstairs.

It would actually have been more to the Ramsey's advantage if it had been Patsy that discovered JonBenet and carried her upstairs etc.

imo if Patsy was fully dressed when JonBenet was killed then this makes the Toilet Rage theory even less credible, since there is enough forensic evidence to suggest JonBenet never went to bed and was awake enough to enjoy a pineapple snack.

So was Patsy fully dressed when JonBenet was killed?


If yes does it follow that JonBenet would have been fully dressed? I suspect that the answer to this is yes too, since she was found wearing her white gap-top, but her bottom half had been changed. Its possible she was left in her gap-top, because rigor-mortis prevented her being redressed in the barbie-gown found next to her corpse in the wine-cellar?

So you can just about discern a revised staging taking place down in the basement. She was to have her day-clothes removed and replaced with a barbie-nightgown.

If JonBenet was wiped down upstairs, then redressed in those size-12's, and later downstairs in the basement someone sexually assaulted her, e.g. the same person who garroted her, since there was a transfer of cellulose to JonBenet's vagina, and if there were blood stains on her size-12 underwear with no corresponding stain on her genitalia, does this mean she was also sexually assaulted upstairs prior to being relocated down to the basement?

Urine does not appear to be the motive for wiping JonBenet down, since her size-12 underwear and longjohns were soaked through with urine. So was it some combination of semen and blood that was wiped off JonBenet's body, later to be masked by the wine-cellar assault?

I think JonBenet was to have been dumped away from the house, dressed in her barbie-gown, apparently garroted and sexually assaulted.


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[Nehemiah]

The last option suggests a fully dysfunctional family life with JonBenet regularly being sexually abused, curiously nobody has asked was Burke being abused, he also wet the bed, had the same mother and father, and lived in the same house?

Yes, Children's Services did "investigate".