Penn State Sandusky Trial #10

[ChickenPants]

If the defense does use the testimony/evidence from their expert, the prosecution will be able to rebut with their own....JS is being examined by the prosecution expert today in preparation for this.

I can't even fathom how and with what they could prepare him. The only thing he could possibly say is "I don't remember", or "I don't know" other than just flat-out denying everything. Each thing is tied to something else.

The testimony I am interested in hearing is Dottie. We all know by now he is a pedophile. I want to hear her justification for living with and enabling one for over 20 years. I want to hear HER say "I don't remember" or "I didn't know".

 

[InTheGarden]

Sandusky trial testimony of boys without fathers in their lives strikes nerve on Father’s Day

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/54318682-68/sandusky-alleged-testified-victim.html.csp

..........The young men who testified last week said Sandusky started out by taking them to work out on Penn State’s campus and that their mothers gave their permission, thinking it’d be good for their sons to spend some time with a man who was well-respected in the community as both an activist for kids through The Second Mile and a popular defensive coach for the Nittany Lions.

Experts say predators work to groom the families of their victims as much as they work to groom their victims for abuse.

"These single mothers, these parents, were essentially conditioned to believe that they were making good parenting decisions by turning their children over to The Second Mile and Jerry," said State College attorney Andrew Shubin, who is representing alleged victims No. 3 and No. 7 with another local attorney, Justine Andronici..............

"They want to speak out and tell someone, but they don’t know who to turn to, and if the abuser is the only person in their life who is giving them any form of positive attention, oftentimes the options appear to the child to be put up with the pain, or walk away and suffer even worse deprivation and loneliness," said Chris Anderson, the executive director of the sex abuse survivor advocacy organization Male Survivor.

More at link.....

All these young men wanted was a real Father, someone to care about them, guide them, and protect them. I pray all these young men heal and grow up to be the true men they so desperately wanted in their lives.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We can imagine the jury will be wise to these maneuvers, but they are compelled to take EVERYTHING they see and hear into deliberations. I keep reminding myself that it is the defense's responsibility to mount a vigorous defense, even if it seems ridiculous. If a Judge lets it in, there it is.

They have to hear the evidence, but the jury will set the amount of weight they want to give each piece.

 

[HMSHood]

There's a medical bible called the DSM-IV which gives the very specific pathology, symptoms and behaviors of mental disorders. There is no reference to pedophilia behavior under "Hisitrionic Personality Disorder". The only similarity is a complusion to get one's own way. The defense probably would have been better off trying to label him "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder", the main feature being the patient is unable to control compulsions to repeat certain actions. Then they could have said that poor Jerry could not control himself...

BUT, the man was never diagnosed with anything before this trial, was he? You don't suddenly turn into a histrionic, a compulsive, a pedophile, a schizophrenic, etc., in your sixties. Are they going to try to prove he has a history of a mental disorder? Where are the qualifying factors such as a diagnosis, case notes, therapy, etc?

When people have mental disturbances that can be classified as real "disorders", it usually impacts their ability to get along in life, in the workplace, and most especially in relationships with others. There's no indication that he had any problems holding down his coaching job or getting along with his peers. No, the only "disordered" component of his personality was stalking and molesting unsuspecting and vulnerable children.

Since he's declared himself innocent of all of the crimes, activities and behaviors alleged, how is he going to use a disorder to validate himself? Either he did them or he didn't. We see that if the defense opens this door, the prosecution will be able to bring on evidence to disprove it, and knowing this, Sandusky may decide he doesn't want to enter it anyway. He thinks, I imagine, that he is above all of that.

I am not sure how Jerry Sandusky could be histrionic. True, he likes being around people. However, Sandusky is not dramatic or draws attention by appearance. The people who I would think are histrionic are Diane Downs, Casey Anthony, or Lori Drew.

Histrionic Personality Disorder DSM-IV criteria.
(1) is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
(2) interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
(3) displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
(4) consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
(5) has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
(6) shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
(7) is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
(8) considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are

http://www.behavenet.com/histrionic-personality-disorder

Sandusky is no doubt immature and narcissistic. He has an emotionally age of a teenager despite normal intelligence. He is clearly obsessed with control and power as he is a psychopath. People who are narcissistic are immature. One thing is, I don't know Sandusky gets angry easily like other narcissists.

Histrionic is strongly correlated with bullying.

Personality and neuropsychological correlates of bullying behavior
http://www.uccs.edu/~faculty/fcoolidg/pdfs/PersonalityBullying.pdf

 

[ThoughtFox]

They have to hear the evidence, but the jury will set the amount of weight they want to give each piece.

Yes, and I think we need to have faith that the Jury won't forget the testimony from last week while they are watching the Defense make their case. In fact, I don't see how the Jury members could ever forget some of those sad stories and Jerry's role in the lives of the victims.

 

[Ada]

Ok, this is stupid and sort of OT, but, a few months back I started dating a guy named 'Jerry'. I called him by his last name because I couldn't bear to call him by his first name.

It didn't last long, lol.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, and I think we need to have faith that the Jury won't forget the testimony from last week while they are watching the Defense make their case. In fact, I don't see how the Jury members could ever forget some of those sad stories and Jerry's role in the lives of the victims.

A lot of it will the qualifications of the experts on both sides.

 

[Reader]

I can't even fathom how and with what they could prepare him. The only thing he could possibly say is "I don't remember", or "I don't know" other than just flat-out denying everything. Each thing is tied to something else.

The testimony I am interested in hearing is Dottie. We all know by now he is a pedophile. I want to hear her justification for living with and enabling one for over 20 years. I want to hear HER say "I don't remember" or "I didn't know".

Indeed, let's get Sarge up there and let her explain how so many boys could spend the night in her own basement, 50-100 times, and her supposedly not be aware of it?

I also hope they got good dimensions on the house as to how far away the basement is from her/their bedroom, or wherever she spent her time, and if it's really soundproof. I hope it is made clear in some way that if she was in the house when the boys were abused and one was screaming for help there is no way she was not aware of these happenings.

 

[StellarsJay]

June 14 Jerry arriving at trial- sequence of 6 pictures- in video these are lightning fast changes of expression.
practising being histrionic?
Picture 3 is more his true self.

 

[passionflower]

Was the wife forbidden in the basement while JS played with young boys? Did she never go to basement to get something, do laundry? Did she feed these children, See pain,tears,frightened looks, if she knew,I hope she is haunted forever! Now, is she as sick as him? Were her own children used by him also?

 

[ChickenPants]

Ok, this is stupid and sort of OT, but, a few months back I started dating a guy named 'Jerry'. I called him by his last name because I couldn't bear to call him by his first name.

It didn't last long, lol.

Yes and there is a beautiful little town, Sandusky, Ohio, which is taking a hit from this, too. Jerry's activities have had a ripple effect the likes of which has ruined a lot of people and places.

 

[Pensfan]

I am not sure how Jerry Sandusky could be histrionic. True, he likes being around people. However, Sandusky is not dramatic or draws attention by appearance. The people who I would think are histrionic are Diane Downs, Casey Anthony, or Lori Drew.

Histrionic Personality Disorder DSM-IV criteria.
(1) is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
(2) interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
(3) displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
(4) consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
(5) has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
(6) shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
(7) is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
(8) considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are

http://www.behavenet.com/histrionic-personality-disorder

Sandusky is no doubt immature and narcissistic. He has an emotionally age of a teenager despite normal intelligence. He is clearly obsessed with control and power as he is a psychopath. People who are narcissistic are immature. One thing is, I don't know Sandusky gets angry easily like other narcissists.

Histrionic is strongly correlated with bullying.

Personality and neuropsychological correlates of bullying behavior
http://www.uccs.edu/~faculty/fcoolidg/pdfs/PersonalityBullying.pdf

You brought up an interesting thought when considering that Jerry is a bully in addition to being a pedophile. IMO if the prosecution does present their psychiatrist's (expert witness) assessment of Jerry, he will have been found to have the following problems and they all are highly correlated with being a bully: ADHD, Conduct Disorder, Major Depression, Passive Aggressive Disorder, aggression, dangerousness, disinhibition and emotional lability.

The graph in the article you posted shows that all personality disorders not just Histrionic Personality Disorder (exception of schizoid, schizotypical, avoidant, and obsessive compulsive) correlate medium high to highly with bullying.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[Pensfan]

Was the wife forbidden in the basement while JS played with young boys? Did she never go to basement to get something, do laundry? Did she feed these children, See pain,tears,frightened looks, if she knew,I hope she is haunted forever! Now, is she as sick as him? Were her own children used by him also?

One of the earlier articles stated that a victim had meals brought down to him in the basement (as if he was a prisoner in a dungeon). I'll bet only Sarge is allowed in her kitchen ,so she was the one who was cooking for the dungeon prisoner. :furious:

 

[Quiche]

As I was reading around today about histrionic personality disorder, the term "pervasive" was used to qualify the attributes associated with HPD.

So, that would mean that these traits would be noticed in every area of his life, not just his dealings with children. As a public man, there should be a ton of examples, over a span of decades, of Jerry's histrionic self... can the defense come up with that? I'm sure the prosecutors are ready for just about anything they can dish up.

I really think it's one of those "it's worth a shot" kind of plans. JMO

 

[Reader]

You brought up an interesting thought when considering that Jerry is a bully in addition to being a pedophile. IMO if the prosecution does present their psychiatrist's (expert witness) assessment of Jerry, he will have been found to have the following problems and they all are highly correlated with being a bully: ADHD, Conduct Disorder, Major Depression, Passive Aggressive Disorder, aggression, dangerousness, disinhibition and emotional lability.

The graph in the article you posted shows that all personality disorders not just Histrionic Personality Disorder (exception of schizoid, schizotypical, avoidant, and obsessive compulsive) correlate medium high to highly with bullying.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

As I was reading around today about histrionic personality disorder, the term "pervasive" was used to qualify the attributes associated with HPD.

So, that would mean that these traits would be noticed in every area of his life, not just his dealings with children. As a public man, there should be a ton of examples, over a span of decades, of Jerry's histrionic self... can the defense come up with that? I'm sure the prosecutors are ready for just about anything they can dish up.

I really think it's one of those "it's worth a shot" kind of plans. JMO

It will be great if this whole 'histrionic' fraud backfires big time on JS and the defense, with diagnosis of the prosecution expert showing that his personality/sickness trends more to traits of a predator and bully of these children...I wonder if after Amendola sees the prosecution expert's report, if he will even try to float this mess....IMO

 

[Quiche]

This article gives a good rundown on the HPD and goes into Dottie's role in everything, as well as her possible complicity. A good read.


Jerry Sandusky Trial: The Defense’s Risky Psych Defense

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-trial-the-defense-s-risky-psych-defense.html


eta: Here's an oldie but goodie from 1982-- an article profiling Sandusky twelve years into his coaching at Penn State and the start up of The Second Mile.


Linebackers Are Jerry Sandusky's Business, But Not His Only Business

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1126185/1/index.htm

 

[Reader]

This article gives a good rundown on the HPD and goes into Dottie's role in everything, as well as her possible complicity. A good read.


Jerry Sandusky Trial: The Defense’s Risky Psych Defense

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-trial-the-defense-s-risky-psych-defense.html


eta: Here's an oldie but goodie from 1982-- an article profiling Sandusky twelve years into his coaching at Penn State and the start up of The Second Mile.


Linebackers Are Jerry Sandusky's Business, But Not His Only Business

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1126185/1/index.htm

Both very good reads, thanks! Of interest from the first:

There has been rampant speculation (with no confirmation) that both Sanduskys will testify. Attorney McLaughlin calls it a must-do “Hail Mary pass” for a doomed case. “There are rumblings about her possibly being indicted as an accomplice to some of the assaults,” McLaughlin said. “If I was advising Dottie, I would advise her not to testify because of the possibility that her own testimony might incriminate her, and subject her to prosecution.”

In the SI article, not a sign of HPD, and Dottie speaks!

 

[Tipstaff]

One of the earlier articles stated that a victim had meals brought down to him in the basement (as if he was a prisoner in a dungeon). I'll bet only Sarge is allowed in her kitchen ,so she was the one who was cooking for the dungeon prisoner. :furious:

This has the ring that the Second Mile kids were not good enough to be permitted upstairs at the family table.

:maddening::maddening:

They were fed by Dottie and permitted to stay over night in the house for Jerry's use and enjoyment.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

The trial is being discussed on IS. Just an FYI!

 

[Tipstaff]

If Jerry Sandusky has/had a Personality Disorder how is it that he and Dottie were able to adopt so many children. How is it that so many professionals at the major university hired him, worked with him and observed him over the years?

How is it that a District Attorney passed on charging Sandusky after he met with local LE?