Penn State Sandusky Trial #11 (Verdict - GUILTY!)

[IzzyBlanche]

So what was the difference in these guys? Was football just that more important to this community???

I doubt it!

IMO JP began his coaching career voicing the commendable philosophy that football players could also be good students and citizens--a philosophy that is admittedly lacking at many other football schools.

Because this philosophy was so unusual, it was like an experiment, one that garnished a great deal of attention and interest in seeing if it would succeed.

It did--by all appearances, anyway. (Who knows now what else might have been covered up over five decades.) As his football success grew, so did his saintly reputation, with much assistance from the media.

Eventually that reputation grew so great that it had to be protected at all costs, else JP would fall off his pedestal into the ranks of all the other not-so-saintly coaches, like the Jackie Sherrills and Barry Switzers he famously once pointed at as examples, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

No one wants to have to publicly admit that their experiment wasn't quite as successful as it has been made out to be.

So IMO the difference was, the others never attempted to portray themselves as anything but football coaches with the sole goal of winning championships.

JMO.

 

[bayouland]

I know it sounds hard to believe, but here is the relevant section of the Pennsylvania Code:
[SIZE=+1]§ 3490.13. [/SIZE]Reports by employes who are required reporters.

(a) Required reporters who work in an institution, school, facility or agency shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school, facility or agency or the person in charge’s designee of suspected abuse. The person in charge, or the designee, shall be responsible and have the obligation to make a report of the suspected child abuse to ChildLine immediately. Nothing in this chapter requires more than one report from any institution, school, facility or agency.

BBM. Thank you. :banghead:

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm sorry, but baloney. If that had been JP's own son or grandson in the shower, I doubt he would have hesitated to report it immediately.

He did report it the next day. He just didn't go to the local (outside) police or the state police to make a report. Why he didn't I don't know. He didn't. He should have. Why didn't McQ, who at the very least heard something hinky & sexual going on stop it? Why didn't he say something right then and there to help the boy? Why didn't McQ call the police? All these people...did nothing more than pass the info along to their superiors.

 

[StellarsJay]

'Denial is a happy, crowded place.'
The best line from espn http://espn.go.com/college-football...-sandusky-crimes-failure-stop-hang-penn-state

 

[jabberwocky]

I'm curious to know if Sandusky had a morals clause in his contract that would cause him to lose his pension. Anyone here know?

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=593234&mode=2

Pension Forfeiture
A public office is indeed a public trust, and Pennsylvania has laws in place to penalize those who violate that trust by stripping them of their pension. The Public Employee Pension Forfeiture Act 1978-140 (Act 140) applies to all SERS members who commit certain crimes in relation to their employment. In addition, the Pennsylvania Constitution and Judicial Code contain pension forfeiture provisions applying to judicial members. Those provisions can be triggered even if no crime has been committed.

Act 140
Act 140 requires forfeiture of all pension and retirement benefits by any SERS member who commits certain crimes that breach the member's duty of faithful and honest public service. Also forfeited are any benefits for the member's beneficiaries and survivor annuitants.

The only benefits Act 140 allows a SERS member to receive are his or her contributions paid into the pension fund, without interest. Even these contributions may be lost, however, because Act 140 requires they be used to pay fines and restitution associated with the criminal conviction.

Act 140 is triggered if a SERS member is convicted of or pleads guilty or no defense to any listed crime committed through the member's public office or position or when public employment puts the member in a position to commit the crime.

 

[Madeleine74]

But with all the blame being flung to and fro the bottom line is we are here now. Sandusky has been convicted and will spend the rest of his life in jail. Paterno is dead, gone, and buried. PSU is going to pay out many millions to the multiple victims. Nothing anyone says now is going to change what happened in the past. The university needs to change their policy that ANY suspected abuse of anyone gets reported to police directly for investigation. All that can happen is figure out what to do going forward to prevent, recognize, and stop abuse whenever and wherever it happens.

Dottie Sandusky turned a blind eye to what was happening in her own home, on trips, and with at least one of her adopted sons, as well as many other at-risk boys. It's not just the university! There are so many points of failure in this mess. It's not just one person to blame and it's not just "the football program." Sandusky likely ran amok long before he was at PSU. You have to trace back years and years. There are probably scores of people who at least suspected something and for whatever reason, chose to say nothing.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

More on JP protecting his saintly reputation

Joe Paterno Advocated Special Treatment For Penn State Football Players: Report

CHARLESTON, S.C. -- A former Penn State official charged with enforcing discipline at the school said Tuesday that Joe Paterno's players got in trouble more often than other students, and got special treatment compared to non-athletes.

[snipped for length]

"Coach Paterno would rather we NOT inform the public when a football player is found responsible for committing a serious violation of the law and/or our student code," she wrote, "despite any moral or legal obligation to do so."

[snipped for length]

Penn State football has long been regarded as an example of a well-run program that graduates an above-average percentage of its players while operating within the rules and winning on the field. But the Sandusky case has forced a re-examination of the Nittany Lions and Paterno's 46-year tenure as coach, highlighted by two national championships.

A review of Associated Press stories over the last decade shows at least 35 Penn State players faced internal discipline or criminal charges between 2003-09 for a variety of offenses ranging from assault to drunk driving to marijuana possession. One player was acquitted of sexual assault.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...ent-penn-state-football-report_n_1109244.html

The Freeh report should be interesting indeed.

 

[nomoresorrow]

Me neither. There's not enough money in the world to buy back a child's innocence.

That's exactly right but the reality is this (speaking from personal experience); the cost over a lifetime for an abuse survivor can run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. It can include counseling, hospitalization(s), medications, lost time from work, etc,etc,etc,. Recovery can be extremely expensive! If my father had had to pay for the costs my sisters and I have incurred over the years, he certainly wouldn't be living the very comfortable life he lives today! I wish ALL perpetrators against children were made to pay any/all expenses related to their victimization - period.

JMO~

 

[gitana1]

They would have directed that to .... .... ... Gary Schultz.

I don't know that that's true. I think they would have investigated in connection with the university police. And if they felt the university police alone had jurisdiction to investigate, it would have gone to the police department, not just Schultz, who was senior vice president for finance and business — which gave him oversight of university police - not chief of police.

But the most important point is that at least Paterno would have been doing his job , reporting to police. He didn't do that here. And if it would have led to a cover up like in 1998, well, at least he could say he did all he could and reported. Again, he failed to do that here.

There were many failures in this case and I firmly believe most of those were due to the religion of college ball at Penn State.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

That's exactly right but the reality is this (speaking from personal experience); the cost over a lifetime for an abuse survivor can run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. It can include counseling, hospitalization(s), medications, lost time from work, etc,etc,etc,. Recovery can be extremely expensive! If my father had had to pay for the costs my sisters and I have incurred over the years, he certainly wouldn't be living the very comfortable life he lives today! I wish ALL perpetrators against children were made to pay any/all expenses related to their victimization - period.
JMO~

BBM--I totally agree, and punitive damages as well.

I wasn't saying otherwise. I was agreeing with a poster who did not understand why some people seem to find it questionable that the victims are seeking compensation.

 

[bayouland]

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2012/06/jerry-dottie-and-matt-sandusky.html

 

[Madeleine74]

Football players at most top universities with top sports programs are given special consideration and helped out of trouble. It's nothing new. I went to a Pac-10 school and it happened there too and this was 30 years ago!

Why this is a surprise I don't know. College sports is ALLLL about money for the school. Money & reputation and getting more money from multiple sources including alumni. Is this just being realized now? I knew this back when I was in college.

It's how it was (and is) at most big schools. That people are pointing at PSU and talking about it makes it seem like it's an isolated thing. It's not! It's everywhere, to some extent. What's different is that there was a high ranked assistant coach at a top program who was (and is) a pedophile and off the field he committed many atrocities. Take Sandusky and plant him in ANY high profile position where he would have liberal access to children, and it would be the same story (but without the sports angle). He was going to victimize young boys wherever he went in life because he was a pedophile long before he was a football coach.

As for victim compensation, I have no worries about that. There will be multiple civil suits. The Sandusky clan will have to pay up, PSU will have to pay up, there will likely be suits against Schultz and others who failed to report. I'll be surprised if each victim doesn't get at least $5M - $15M when all is said and done. That will cover all their therapy for sure and bring in a hefty punitive damage award. Enough? Well, it will never be enough, but money is all there is to win in a civil case.

 

[nomoresorrow]

(BBM)

BBM--I totally agree, and punitive damages as well.

I wasn't saying otherwise. I was agreeing with a poster who did not understand why some people seem to find it questionable that the victims are seeking compensation.

Oh I know IzzyBlanche - I was simply agreeing with you and going off of your post. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

 

[bayouland]

I don't know that that's true. I think they would have investigated in connection with the university police. And if they felt the university police alone had jurisdiction to investigate, it would have gone to the police department, not just Schultz, who was senior vice president for finance and business — which gave him oversight of university police - not chief of police.

But the most important point is that at least Paterno would have been doing his job , reporting to police. He didn't do that here. And if it would have led to a cover up like in 1998, well, at least he could say he did all he could and reported. Again, he failed to do that here.

There were many failures in this case and I firmly believe most of those were due to the religion of college ball at Penn State.

BBM. I agree 100%.

And to add, I'm not the first to say it - but will say it again, this is far from over. There will be investigations for years and books regarding this for decades.

I hope they get to the bottom of this and also unravel the Gricar mystery. I believe we will eventually learn that this was even worse than any of us ever suspected.

JMO.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Football players at most top universities with top sports programs are given special consideration and helped out of trouble. It's nothing new. I went to a Pac-10 school and it happened there too and this was 30 years ago!

Why this is a surprise I don't know. College sports is ALLLL about money for the school. Money & reputation and getting more money from multiple sources including alumni. Is this just being realized now? I knew this back when I was in college.

It's how it was (and is) at most big schools. That people are pointing at PSU and talking about it makes it seem like it's an isolated thing. It's not! It's everywhere, to some extent. What's different is that there was a high ranked assistant coach at a top program who was (and is) a pedophile and off the field he committed many atrocities. Take Sandusky and plant him in ANY high profile position where he would have liberal access to children, and it would be the same story (but without the sports angle). He was going to victimize young boys wherever he went in life because he was a pedophile long before he was a football coach.

Agreed.

I don't believe anyone here is shocked, shocked that football and money go hand in hand, or that there was a coverup to protect a successful football program, or that players were given special consideration. Nor do I think they think PSU is an isolated situation.

What makes this story different, however, is that PSU was supposed to be--and presented itself as being--on a higher moral plane than all those other schools in large part because of the reputation JP and others cultivated for himself.

I honestly believe that if this same thing had happened at say USC, or Oklahoma, or Ohio State, the attitude would have been oh, bad behavior being tolerated for the sake of the football program again, yawn, nothing to see here, move along.

But Penn State was supposed to be special, better. Such things weren't supposed to happen there because JP wouldn't allow them to, according to the mythology of the moral tight ship he ran.

JMO.

 

[gitana1]

I hadn't watched this clip: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-rock-center_n_1616528.html?utm_hp_ref=sports

It was posted here and I'm sure most of you saw it. It really struck me. The utter pain in the man's face. Especially at the end when asked when was the last time he cried about the 100 separate episode of sexual abuse at the hands of Sandusky.

He thought he was the only one. Poor baby. Poor man.

 

[Rlaub44]

I doubt it!

IMO JP began his coaching career voicing the commendable philosophy that football players could also be good students and citizens--a philosophy that is admittedly lacking at many other football schools.

Because this philosophy was so unusual, it was like an experiment, one that garnished a great deal of attention and interest in seeing if it would succeed.

It did--by all appearances, anyway. (Who knows now what else might have been covered up over five decades.) As his football success grew, so did his saintly reputation, with much assistance from the media.

Eventually that reputation grew so great that it had to be protected at all costs, else JP would fall off his pedestal into the ranks of all the other not-so-saintly coaches, like the Jackie Sherrills and Barry Switzers he famously once pointed at as examples, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

No one wants to have to publicly admit that their experiment wasn't quite as successful as it has been made out to be.

So IMO the difference was, the others never attempted to portray themselves as anything but football coaches with the sole goal of winning championships.

JMO.

This is a good overview of the beginnings of his aura, but one would also have to include his modest lifestyle (you have probably seen pictures of his home), the fact that he had his home address and phone number listed in the State College directory, the way he had players and parents over to his home for spaghetti dinners cooked by his wife Sue, the fact that Sue Paterno personally tutored players who were struggling academically, his players' very high graduation rate and the success that many of his players experienced in their careers after football, the money he donated to build a library on campus, his dedication and assistance to THON and the Special Olympics, etc.

There were many things that Paterno did that were not typical of the head football coach at a major university that caused people to hold him in higher esteem. All of which made his downfall so much more shocking and newsworthy.

 

[gitana1]

Here's the link to the full interview of Travis Weaver: [ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/47914654#47914654"]msnbc.com Video Player[/ame]

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Oh how I hope that someone...anyone....audio taped this!!!! I wanna hear this!



http://www.businessinsider.com/jail...ith-hey-teacher-leave-those-kids-alone-2012-6

I would also love to hear this!! WTG prisoners!! Wonder how ole Jer feels now. Wonder how it feels to be scared to go to sleep...

 

[IzzyBlanche]

This is a good overview of the beginnings of his aura, but one would also have to include his modest lifestyle (you have probably seen pictures of his home), the fact that he had his home address and phone number listed in the State College directory, the way he had players and parents over to his home for spaghetti dinners cooked by his wife Sue, the fact that Sue Paterno personally tutored players who were struggling academically, his players' very high graduation rate and the success that many of his players experienced in their careers after football, the money he donated to build a library on campus, his dedication and assistance to THON and the Special Olympics, etc.

There were many things that Paterno did that were not typical of the head football coach at a major university that caused people to hold him in higher esteem. All of which made his downfall so much more shocking and newsworthy.

How do we know what is typical of the head football coach at a major university? Maybe others do similar things--in fact, I would be surprised if they didn't--but the media isn't trumpeting them. Maybe not donating money to build a library, I admit.

Take Tim Tebow, for example. I've seen media reports ad nauseam about his charity work, as if he's the only college or pro player who donates time and money to good causes.

He's not. We just don't hear so much about the others because they aren't the media darlings Tebow is.

I am not in any way dismissing all the good Paterno did in his lifetime. And I agree, it made his downfall more shocking and newsworthy because we had all been led to expect better from him.