Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #21

[butterfly7]

I just had a thought. :idea: No matter what happens in the courts, Peru will always have the upper hand.

If JVDS ties up the legal system with all his shenanigans, all Peru has to do is put him in the general population...THAT should cool his jets!!! :croc: :woohoo:

TOTALLY, TOTALLY AGREE!!! However, this should have already been done. Probaly would have sang like a canary!!! Defintely needs to be now - before defense team shows up!!! JMHO

 

[Nova]

Even as an adult in the US, I heard of the NH case, but never followed it closely. So, before this incident in Peru, if I had heard the name Joran Van Der Sloot without it being said in connection with Natalee Holloway, I wouldn't have known who he was.

Tonight I had guests over for the 4th of July fireworks. At one point, I asked what everyone thought as to why JVDS killed SF. A close friend of more than 40 years' standing looked blank and said "Who is Joran Van Der Sloot?"

This is an educated person who reads newspapers and watches TV news religiously. But his interest is politics. (After I explained, he had some vague memory that a girl had gone missing in Aruba some years back, but he couldn't name any of the principals.)

Not everyone follows true crime stories the way we at WS do.

 

[Peliman]

no, i dont think you have missed anything concrete. but i think that because jvds has never had to pay the piper before and the fact that even tho his mother and dutch embassy claim that they have no interest in getting him out of this current mess somehow he has a crew of attorneys and access to the media ... i can see the reason for the uneasiness of all of it... the money is coming from somewhere but no one is claiming it...and jvds hasnt yet that we know of accepted an interview deal or we havent seen an interview yet... so somebody of means is involved in this...WHO and how powerful are they??? and how successful will they be? he has always skated scott free... i think there is a real possibility that he may get out of this too...jmho.... it makes me sick to say that too... :/ especially because of the slam dunk evidence this time as opposed to the nh case...

Hello NN, I agree with you. Money is coming from somewhere. I see things a bit differently as I don't think Joran stands a chance. I'm of the belief Jorans attorneys are just showing the money person they are doing something. A show if you will that the money is spent doing something. Perhaps his attorneys have found someone as an investor, risking money now in hopes of a future gain later. (unknown)

I believe what I hear, Peruvian justice is moving forward. Despite the circus atmosphere Jorans attorneys are attempting to create. IMO

 

[Nova]

This is a great post, so I wanted to quote the whole thing . And, perhaps add that as Brady v. Md has continued to be developed, the prosecution doesn't have the same advantage they once did. That is, the prosecution has a DUTY to discover, and disclose, all exculpatory evidence to a defendant, including impeachment evidence. And certainly, the conviction standard in criminal cases (beyond a reasonable doubt), is greatly weighted towards the accused (it is by clear and convincing evidence or a preponderance in civil cases, both easier standards to achieve).

The only area where the prosecution still has a considerable advantage is in an indictment since, 1) the process is secret, 2) the defendant may not even know the process is going on, much less have any rights with respect to the process, and 3) all manner of evidence (including triple hearsay) is presented and considered. There's a saying in the legal community that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich. But that's not really true of course. Grand juries are just regular folk like the petit juries and can and do think for themselves.

And "accused" only exists in theory in the constitution. JVS is not accused of SF's murder and no one in LE or the legal community uses that term when there is this amount of evidence. Not even in the courtroom. The prosecution in every courtroom says, "The evidence shows that the Defendant IS GUILTY of murder," not "the accused" or "may be guilty."

Really good post. Go Steelers .

(Emphasis added.)

I haven't a quarrel with anything in your excellent post, Cottage, but I think some may get the erroneous impression that the poor government is unfairly disadvantaged in criminal trials.

As I'm sure you know, the government has resources far beyond those available to any but the wealthiest defendants. And most of us who serve as jurors have a deep-seated desire to trust LE and the prosecution (because the notion that such officials may be incompetent and charge the wrong people puts all of us at risk).

I don't have a link handy, but the last stats I saw showed that criminal trials end in convictions well over 90% of the time. Despite the common plot lines of TV shows, I'd wager innocent defendants are convicted far more often than guilty defendants are acquitted.

Moreover, our conservative Supreme Court has increasingly limited the rights of criminal defendants (particularly in the area of appeals) over the past few decades.

Yes, the burden of proof for the prosecution is very high. And rightfully so.

 

[Sanny]

I just had a thought. :idea: No matter what happens in the courts, Peru will always have the upper hand.

If JVDS ties up the legal system with all his shenanigans, all Peru has to do is put him in the general population...THAT should cool his jets!!! :croc: :woohoo:

GP is just sitting back taking dibs on JVDS's butt......waiting patiently :dance:

Tacapino had been on NG's show when this first broke....and he naturally did
his spin on how this guy could be innocent....(naturally he's a defender) and
said he was NOT defending him when he was asked.......ummmmm
no but his firm is not doing just that.

Wherever VDS is getting his flow of cash......I'm wondering how many from
around the world are mailing it in for his defense.
We all know how many people come out of the woodwork IN DEFENSE of those like Joran.
They feel sorry for the 'DOWN TRODDEN'.....:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Nova]

Nah, I think he saw money and his last shot at world "fame" before he retires. My own opinion of course.
Lawyers do well, but it's the last and I do mean very last job I would ever want. One has to be willing to let go of personal principles undertaking the defense of a criminal.

Personal feelings may have to be set aside. But mounting a vigorous defense of one's client is the primary principle governing defense attorneys.

I know quite a few of the latter and I promise you the last thing they think they are doing is "letting go" of their principles.

(ETA: As I have since read, Cottages said exactly this--and said it much better--a page or two ago.)

 

[Nova]

i think he is just trying to stay current and in the public eye so news agencies may be willing to pay him for anything that he is will to throw out... i think he should not have access to interviews of any kind to media right now...

What about freedom of speech? I don't know whether Peru uses the concept of "innocent until proven guilty," but whatever we may think of JVDS, he hasn't yet been convicted of a crime.

What if he were a political prisoner being held by a totalitarian regime? Would we still want him prevented from speaking with the press? (To be clear, I don't see JVDS as a victim of any government, the press nor the Holloways. I'm just pointing out some of the problems with banning speech by criminal defendants.)

 

[FLNY]

This was published on June 9, re: the lawyer with VDS during his confession on June 7:

"The state-appointed lawyer who represented Mr. van der Sloot in initial interrogations, Carla Odria, told the AP that a different lawyer, who she said was hired by the suspect, was with Mr. van der Sloot on Monday. She said she did not know the lawyer's name. Authorities would not release the name of the lawyer."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10160/1064179-82.stm

Someone has to know who paid for this private attorney!! Most likely JVDS himself!! I can't imagine that a different lawyer than he had on Sat. shows up on Mon. and he doesn't question it....now, he disavows any knowledge and sues the the lawyer!!! This guy is unbelievable...:banghead:

 

[suzihawk]

What about freedom of speech? I don't know whether Peru uses the concept of "innocent until proven guilty," but whatever we may think of JVDS, he hasn't yet been convicted of a crime.

What if he were a political prisoner being held by a totalitarian regime? Would we still want him prevented from speaking with the press? (To be clear, I don't see JVDS as a victim of any government, the press nor the Holloways. I'm just pointing out some of the problems with banning speech by criminal defendants.)

I'm not at all opposed to JVS speaking out in the press. What I'm opposed to and find offensive is his expectation (requirement?) of being paid big bucks for his "free" speech.

He can holler from the rooftops about his innocence all he wants, but he shouldn't be paid to do so, IMO.

 

[madeleine]

Help guys,
can someone pls help me.What's the mark under her chin?TIA

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/06/21/slootcrimescene_03_062110.jpg

 

[Nova]

I'm not at all opposed to JVS speaking out in the press. What I'm opposed to and find offensive is his expectation (requirement?) of being paid big bucks for his "free" speech.

He can holler from the rooftops about his innocence all he wants, but he shouldn't be paid to do so, IMO.

I'm not crazy about the idea myself, and I'll be happy to boycott any publication or broadcast that meets his asking price.

But the question remains: how do you stop someone who hasn't been convicted of a crime from entering into a legal contract?

Moreover, I can't speak for Peru, but it's often been said that in the U.S. (where JVDS is also under indictment) one gets precisely the amount of justice one can afford. Is the privilege to be afforded only to those who are already wealthy at the time of their arrest?

 

[doobiedoo52]

Help guys,
can someone pls help me.What's the mark under her chin?TIA

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/06/21/slootcrimescene_03_062110.jpg

I have wondered that myself. In that picture it looks like a spot of blood and in the other pic (the famous neck pic that was hidden) it looks more yellowish--almost like that horrendous color of hair JVS ended up with.

 

[Peliman]

Well I'm hoping Holloways lawyer wrote up a little default judgement clause if his agreement with VDS is in writing was not the truth. I also wonder what types of leins could be attached to JDS's accounts and and all if he defaulted on such an agreement.

I'm aware of a foreign lein but I think it deals within the US and Canada on real property.

Any legal mind care to adventure?

 

[Sanny]

The Globe is reporting this.......so everyone now can have a huge laugh......because it's hysterical.

Joran's Baby Outrage

Fiendish Joran van der Sloot is planning a prison wedding - and wants his wife to have a baby so he can win sympathy when he faces judges for murdering a Peruvian beauty, sources reveal. In a stunning world exclusive, insiders rip the lid off the twisted plot by the prime suspect in Natalee Holloway's disappearance in his desperate bid to escape justice.


ROFLMAO......WTH do they get these stories??????

 

[selena]

Help guys,
can someone pls help me.What's the mark under her chin?TIA

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/06/21/slootcrimescene_03_062110.jpg

Reminds me of the mark on Jonbenets neck. Garroting. Although it could be from him trying to strangle her from the back and his watchband making a mark. Very circular though..looks like a blood blister from wringing his shirt around her using the tension against her neck knotted at the front.
Just a guess.

 

[selena]

Could even be a mark from her finger trying to pry his hands off. I mentioned this before because she has a finger cut that isn't explainable, but could be from cutting it on his watch band at her neck. This would also explain why he has no cuts or bruises if he strangled her from behind.

 

[Carrington]

The Globe is reporting this.......so everyone now can have a huge laugh......because it's hysterical.

Joran's Baby Outrage

Fiendish Joran van der Sloot is planning a prison wedding - and wants his wife to have a baby so he can win sympathy when he faces judges for murdering a Peruvian beauty, sources reveal. In a stunning world exclusive, insiders rip the lid off the twisted plot by the prime suspect in Natalee Holloway's disappearance in his desperate bid to escape justice.


ROFLMAO......WTH do they get these stories??????

Lets just hope it doesn't turn into a BOMBSHELL

 

[FLNY]

I guess they're beginning to think he's nuts!! :crazy:

"Van der Sloot [to] undergo psychological tests by court order

The judge ordered Morales Cordova this expertise in order to know the real state of mental health of [JVDS] to determine the degree of responsibility.

...the judge asked for medical assistance from the Institute of Legal Medicine to conduct the psychological expertise.

Medical tests will be held in the Miguel Castro Castro prison..."

http://translate.googleusercontent....&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhgnN7bQ65Q2qdOFswlhSXCfPaTtng

 

[suzihawk]

The U.S. attorney Joe Taco Pina will defend Joran van der Sloot. He is part of a three-man team of criminal lawyers who will work for acquittal of the murder suspect.

The team will replace the current attorney Altez Maximo, who indicated earlier withdrew from the case to withdraw.

http://translate.google.com/transla...rtman/publish/artikel_74799.php&sl=auto&tl=en

:waitasec: It's getting crazier and crazier!

 

[21merc7]

I'm nervous about him somehow managing to get off too. There are so many ways that the law can be perverted to accomodate the criminal. I just finished Beth's book & there is no way that Joran is anything but absolutely evil & the devil has been known for taking care of his own.

Not getting off, no matter how many countries he tries to entice with the same old song of to and fro. This is Peru. Not Aruba, not America. Justice will be served, even if Peru makes certain he lives, a long, long life in jail, in Peru.