Pictures of JonBenet's bathroom

[UKGuy]

UKGuy, what do you think of this? It's from a 1997 CNN article about the Ramsey case:

"Police also confirmed that they sought the insight of former Miss America, Marilyn Van Derbur Atler. Atler admitted publicly in 1991 that she had been sexually abused by her father, and has since become an authority on the issue of incest."

Dru,

I guess it demonstrates that sexual abuse crosses all social boundaries, financial or class based.

Also the BPD lead theory assumed incestous activity, their search warrants for the Ramsey houses in different states, were looking for child .

Both Ramsey's were interviewed regarding pictures of JonBenet, where they were taken, who took them etc. Without the pageant scenario JonBenet's pictures in any other context would have been a red-flag.

Its perfectly possible for Steve Thomas' book in which he promotes a Toilet Rage theory to simply be a convenient vehicle for exposing what he considers maladministration in a case he was passionate about, after all if there were ever to be a court case, why telegraph to the Ramsey's your theory?


.

 

[Solace]

Dru,

I guess it demonstrates that sexual abuse crosses all social boundaries, financial or class based.

Also the BPD lead theory assumed incestous activity, their search warrants for the Ramsey houses in different states, were looking for child .

Both Ramsey's were interviewed regarding pictures of JonBenet, where they were taken, who took them etc. Without the pageant scenario JonBenet's pictures in any other context would have been a red-flag.

Its perfectly possible for Steve Thomas' book in which he promotes a Toilet Rage theory to simply be a convenient vehicle for exposing what he considers maladministration in a case he was passionate about, after all if there were ever to be a court case, why telegraph to the Ramsey's your theory?


.

UK, Steve Thomas makes it quite clear that he wrote the book to expose the "maladministration". But he also goes on Larry King Live and several other shows and says Patsy did it, many other shows. The grand jury had not handed down an indictment and was unlikely to going forward and so he wrote his book and he exposed the Boulder system and also that he felt Patsy murdered her child.

Not everything has another hidden reason. He says it plain and clear exactly why he wrote the book. I guess one could find hidden reasons in everything, but conspiracy theories involving the principal players of the case abound and I feel is overdone.

 

[Solace]

Tober,

Thanks, as Bill might say Its the evidence stupid.


I reckon you have nailed it, people really want to believe it was an accident, they may be mothers, Patsy was a mother, they may have daughters, JonBenet was Patsy's daughter, how could a mother particpate in the murder of her own child, surely not, how can a mother identify with that?

I have speculated that JonBenet was held by the neck and sexually assaulted, she tries to break free causing the compressed abrasions, she screams, a physical assault begins, she is punched and slapped about the head, somehow she is pinned down, or subdued enough for her assailant to reach out grab some obect, say a flashlight and bring this crashing down upon her head, the rest is staging and history.

Even if the above is speculation is 100% incorrect, I would maintain that her injuries are not those of an accident victim, but of a homicide victim, and that one or more of the occupants of the Ramsey household are responsable for her death and subsequent cover up?


.

It is possible. But I think unlikely. More than likely is the scenario that Patsy became enraged when she saw that JB had an accident again. I realize that she urinated in her underwear - the underwear that she was found in- but that was I believe a result of the strangulation and more than possible. The abrasions could have come when she was strangled face down. The bruising to the sides of her head could have come from Patsy shaking her after the "accident" and trying to wake her.

John helped her. Berke was asleep, he did not know what they found and asked that question in the morning and he asked what he could do. That does not sound like someone who killed their sister or joined in the act of killing her the night before with some of his friends. Come on.

 

[Tober]

Berke was asleep, he did not know what they found and asked that question in the morning and he asked what he could do. That does not sound like someone who killed their sister or joined in the act of killing her the night before with some of his friends. Come on.

That's true. Also, if he killed her or was involved in her death, I couldn't imagine John and Patsy sending him off to the White's without them out of fear he'd say something.

 

[Solace]

That's true. Also, if he killed her or was involved in her death, I couldn't imagine John and Patsy sending him off to the White's without them out of fear he'd say something.

You know Tober. That is such an excellent point. I hope that Blue Crab is reading it. You just destroyed that argument. You and AMES are just great. Thank you for that post.

 

[Solace]

You're correct about this. Maybe some of us have been so focused on trying to incorporate an accident scenario into the crime, that we're not realizing her injuries for what they really are--intentional. I'd always assumed the head blow as accidental, followed by the strangulation and sex assault as staging. I now see that the head blow, strangulation, and sex assault could all have been part of a continuous intentional action, with the neck and wrist ligatures applied afterwards as staging, and the ransom note written as staging.

Tober,

I say accident for want of a better word. It is pretty hard to believe that a mother could inflict that on her child without realizing that hitting her with a flashlight may kill her. However, she could have been in such a rage that it happened in a split second and it is over. Crimes usually happen that way. It takes a few seconds, unless you are a serial killer and making it last.

She had been up since 6:00 a.m. At 10:00 that night, that would mean that Patsy had been up for 16 hours. She is exhausted ANNNNDDD also, Jon Benet was most likely not killed until about 1:00 a.m. I don't believe Patsy ever went to bed and woke up and came down. I think she was doing things around the house as she said and was absolutely exhausted. I can see her losing control if a child gets very snappish with her and physically resists. Patsy is in no mood and doesn't have the time or the energy to coax JonBenet with kindness.

I just think it is possible to get so angry that you could hit your child and say "what have I done".