Pictures of the Karr Family Christmas of 1996 Have Been Found

[openminded1]

Not me, I'd hang the and change my kids names.

What person in their right mind would let a killer go free for the sake of "labels".

There are lots of great kids with bad parents. (heck, me included LOL)

I don't think she would consciously ket a killer go free- well, I don't know *her* but I don't think most people would anyway.

I think that when a flock of reporters shows up at your door asking about a member of your family, a normal 1st instinct would be to want to prove any way you could that *you* were not involved with this person. I am sure she is very scared and concerned, and she wishes with all her might that her ex will be found merely to be a loony (which everybody knew all along anyway) and not the person who is responsible for one of the most infamous murders of our time.

 

[wenchie]

Why would he have picked the most noticeable day to be gone out of the entire YEAR (Christmas), to take off and commit a murder so far away?

It wasn't as if this was the only day available.

He would have had to be gone at least 24 hours, between flight time, waiting in airports, renting a car, finding the house, committing the crime, writing the note, destroying EVERY BIT of evidence, etc.

 

[pinto]

Often families with in-laws celebrate Christmas over multiple days. Sometimes we celebrate with my in-laws a few days after Christmas, because my brother-in-law is in another state with his in-laws, so we wait for him to come back. Sometimes we celebrate with my immediate family before Christmas, because my own brother usually works Christmas, etc.

It's possible that they did all celebrate Christmas together but just not actually ON Christmas. In addition, many families open gifts Christmas Eve. Was he dealing in cars at this point? Maybe he had to go pick up a car to drive back to Alabama, so they celebrated early and he made a business trip.

Just throwing things out there. Christmas doesn't always mean the 25th and only the 25th. Heck, we almost never gather with family on the actual 25th.

 

[islanders]

Bobbisandgel,

Good question.

He is reportedly a control freak, extremely intelligent and intimidating.

This is how pedophiles work. They get some level of control over their victim and use this against them.

I was trying to confirm when she first provided alibi for JMK.

!) she thinks he was there on xmas day, but not quite sure

2) she had some knowledge of a dubious plan

3) she was more involved and wants to keep all scrutiny away from ex and herself

 

[islanders]

I wonder if...when she was questioned before..when they were still married...if she was to afraid of him to admit that he wasn't there and now she is afraid to admit that she flat out lied to cover for him? If I was married to a control freak and I was afraid of him I might lie for him just to save myself and out of fear of what he might do if I didn't lie for him.

Bobbisandgel,

Good question.

He is reportedly a control freak, extremely intelligent and intimidating.

This is how pedophiles work. They get some level of control over their victim and use this against them.

I was trying to confirm when she first provided alibi for JMK.

!) she thinks he was there on xmas day, but not quite sure

2) she had some knowledge of a dubious plan

3) she was more involved and wants to keep all scrutiny away from ex and herself

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

He'd have to have it timed like Ocean's 11--right down to Sammy Davis Jr. driving the garbage truck!

And Boulder is a to drive around in even when you know where you're going.

Yep, whoever did it had been there a while and knew their way around...and apparently, around the Ramsey house...and comfortable enough to not bother bringing any of their own "tools".

That is...if there was an intruder at all.

But I certainly don't see Karr breezing into Boulder during Christmastime and breezing out having committed the crime and in a period of 24 hours in the dead of winter.

Even Karr's old story didn't approach such a level of "way out there"

 

[Lauren]

On Entertainment tonight they had home movies of him and his sons. I didn't realize his twin girls died I believe at birth. He had the mullet and looks totally different.

 

[otto]

I've heard she's very nice, but maybe this is why she hired an attorney, and not causxe she plans to write a book!

She opened up to the world he was in pics with the family on that day, and no attorney would have ever had her volunteer that. If she had made an alibi for him before that puts her in more of a pickle maybe.

I don't know if they would consider her word as an alibi. If she thought she would find him in a pic and can't, the prosecution will dig like heck to corroberate he wasn't there, if he really wasn't.

Scandi

Some people would argue that a person only hires a lawyer because they are guilty. For example, the Ramsays hired lawyers and that contributes to the appearance of guilt. If that is true, than this woman must also have hired a lawyer to hide the appearance of guilt. Perhaps she has lied about her husband being home at Christmas and now she needs a lawyer to explain.

I don't think it matters whether his wife can find a picture of him or not. He has confessed to a crime. If he wants to establish an alibi, fine. It's not up to the prosecution to pursue it or prove anything but he is free to have his wife produce a picture providing an alibi. Without an alibi, the prosecution is free to assume he has none and may be guilty.

 

[otto]

Someone had to take them. I'm in almost none of my family Xmas shots, because i'm the one behind the camera.

Contol freak or you just don't want your children to have any pictures of you with their children?

 

[otto]

But she says she does remember - or to be more precise, can't recall any Christmas when he wasn't with the family. She may believe she has pics of him from X-mas '96. She may be mistaken about that, even while sincerely believing it. (Or she may yet produce pics - or the grandparents may produce pics, or aunts/uncles, cousins....whoever was with the family at Christmas and taking pics). I don't really see the failure to produce a pic as destroying the credibility of her claim that he was with her and the kids. As others have ponted out, most alibis don't come with photo documentation.

As I said in a previous post, my Mom missed me in the X-mass pics one year. Yet if you'd asked her, I'm sure she'd have sworn she had a pic of me from that Christmas.

She doesn't remember a Christmas without him but at the same time, would Laci have remembered that Scott couldn't commit to having Christmas dinner with her family, had she lived? Probably not. 10 years later she would have remembered that they were never apart at Christmas ...

Pictures mean nothing, but they were offered by the ex-wife as proof that her husband is not guilty of the Ramsay murder. No one asked her to produce them, it was her idea. She should go ahead ... let's see.

I'm not going to defend a pedophile by arguing that although his ex-wife said she has pictures, it doesn't really matter because lots of people don't have pictures taken at Christmas time. I expect her to follow through and if she can't, she is mistaken and there is no proof either from her, her brother in law or her parents that he was present during Christmas.

And isn't it an interesting coincidence that he was not photographed once at any of the multiple alibi places he visited that Christmas? (so far)

 

[tybee204]

Some people would argue that a person only hires a lawyer because they are guilty. For example, the Ramsays hired lawyers and that contributes to the appearance of guilt. If that is true, than this woman must also have hired a lawyer to hide the appearance of guilt. Perhaps she has lied about her husband being home at Christmas and now she needs a lawyer to explain.

I don't think it matters whether his wife can find a picture of him or not. He has confessed to a crime. If he wants to establish an alibi, fine. It's not up to the prosecution to pursue it or prove anything but he is free to have his wife produce a picture providing an alibi. Without an alibi, the prosecution is free to assume he has none and may be guilty.

Actually the Prosecution and the Courts have an obligation to make sure nutballs are not confessing to crimes they didnt commit. They are responsible to determine they have the guilty person. If they neglect that responsibility that allows actual perps to run free comitting more crimes while nutballs serve their time.

 

[otto]

Yep, we don't know because they don't know, because they didn't bother investigating Karr before arresting him.

http://www.crimerant.com/?p=129

What was he ... just an innocent victim? Should we be careful not to make fun of his name because of his victim status?

He's no victim and he was investigated prior to the arrest ... have some faith. On second thoughts, perhaps I'm mistaken and the American police are randomly detaining people without cause (shades of Aruba).

 

[tybee204]

She doesn't remember a Christmas without him but at the same time, would Laci have remembered that Scott couldn't commit to having Christmas dinner with her family, had she lived? Probably not. 10 years later she would have remembered that they were never apart at Christmas ...

Pictures mean nothing, but they were offered by the ex-wife as proof that her husband is not guilty of the Ramsay murder. No one asked her to produce them, it was her idea. She should go ahead ... let's see.

I'm not going to defend a pedophile by arguing that although his ex-wife said she has pictures, it doesn't really matter because lots of people don't have pictures taken at Christmas time. I expect her to follow through and if she can't, she is mistaken and there is no proof either from her, her brother in law or her parents that he was present during Christmas.

And isn't it an interesting coincidence that he was not photographed once at any of the multiple alibi places he visited that Christmas? (so far)

Actually I think the womans Attorney said she was going to look for pictures. I dont think the ex wife ever said she had pictures and could prove it. I think is brother may have said that at some point ( I could be wrong)

 

[sntemp]

"And isn't it an interesting coincidence that he was not photographed once at any of the multiple alibi places he visited that Christmas?"


Well from what has been reported about the pictures from his brother is that the children and ex wife were in the pictures but so far no pictures include JMK.

My question is how often do women go several hundred miles away to the in-laws house on Christmas without the spouse? My bet is that hardly ever happens.

Have you seen the home video where JMK is trying to cover his face with a pair of shorts because he was so camera shy?

Wouldn't be beyond belief that he avoided the camera, you think?

 

[Nova]

Years ago, my partner and I spent 6 weeks in Europe. When we returned with hundreds of photos, people asked why there were so many pictures of me and no pictures of him.

The answer was that he is the photographer in the family. Taking pictures doesn't interest me.

But I can promise you he wasn't in Colorado during those 6 weeks.

 

[otto]

Philip Recchia is a Gossip Columnist. The first line in his article gives that way....August 20, 2006 -- The pervy predator charged last week with the killing of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey cruised middle schools as a young man,


I am going to pass on that as being News or accurate.

I don't know who's who as media authors, but this link is related; still looking for the other link but I know I read it in two places linked to this website. Although it doesn't specifically mention what Lara did in the marriage, I think this gives a general impression of the tone of the marriage.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/0818karr.html
time. Karr was 19.

@On Thursday, she described him as "different" and "possessive."

"I got scared by his ways," said Shotts, who was introduced to Karr by a friend when she was 13. "He never was real violent, just pushy."

Shotts said she was "wooed" by Karr, whom she described as romantic and sensitive during their brief courtship.

"I thought he was very good-looking," she said. After they married, he became overly controlling, Shotts said.

Their marriage ended after nine months and was annulled in March 1985.

In a complaint filed in Marion County, Ala., on Feb. 26, 1985, Shotts claimed Karr forced her to marry through use of "intimidation and fear." The complaint goes on to say that Shotts was fearful for her life and safety.

Shotts said she had had little contact with Karr since their annulment. She had, however, heard about him being charged in California for child ."

Was anyone of the opinion that this was a normal happy marriage? Has anyone considered the consequences that this man would not take his 16 year old wife, pregnant with twins, to a doctor when she was giving birth? This is not a normal relationship and it is obvious to everyone that a woman giving birth to twins without medical care could die due to hemorrhage ... but John Karr didn't care and his wife survived anyway. Was any of that normal? He was a serious control freak and that much is coming through very clear.

 

[otto]

I found the link to the article I mentioned above. It says that LE were looking at him in 2001 in relation to JonBenet.

Marie Case, who represented Karr on the 2001 misdemeanor charges, said Friday that members of the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department mentioned to her at the time that "there was possibly some involvement" in the Ramsey slaying 1,200 miles away in Boulder, Colo. -- "just saying, 'Hey, we're looking at this guy.' "


rest of the article:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/19/RAMSEY.TMP

"Michael Rains, an attorney for Lara Knutson, who was married to Karr for a dozen years until late 2001, said Friday that she is looking for tangible evidence to reinforce -- or perhaps refute -- her memory that her then-husband spent that day after Christmas with her and their three sons in Alabama, where they lived at the time."

 

[otto]

Just down the block from the sex change clinic.


I have to turn in. Nice talking to all of you.

For some reason, I don't think he wanted to be female, I think he wanted to be like a child without facial hair, an adam's apple or anything else that made him appear as an adult. I think he was fascinated with little girls and wanted to appear attractive and youthful to them. I think he was hostile to little boys, making them upset in class, because he was competing with them for the attention of little girls.

I think this guy has stunted emotional growth somewhere around the age of 6 or 10.

 

[otto]

Providing pics with no JMK…

That is laughable…

I like how her lawyer said she would search for evidence to either refute or prove her prior claim.

I especially like the option of "refuting" that he was home that Christmas. Looks like she's thinking about hanging him out to dry.

 

[otto]

I am just curious about something. Do those who think the Ramseys are innocent think this because it's unfathomable that a parent could ever harm their beautiful child, molsest them and/or murder them?
Because this happens more often than not, unfortunately

I think that JonBenet (not "the girl") was murdered by a stranger. This has nothing to do with whether parents murder, this is because there is no conclusive evidence of who caused the murder. The family, police, district attorney and friends all messed up but there is still no suspect better than John Karr.

People that believe the Ramsays are innocent understand that fruitcakes like Andrea Yates and Susan Smith murder their children, but to put the Ramsays in that category is an insult one's intelligence.