Plane crash, Butte, Montana-Up to 17 dead

[SuziQ]

Below is the latest article I found. There were around 12 kids on board:

http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/1720481.html

(snips)
A plane that left Oroville, a small town about 90 miles north of Sacramento, this morning crashed in Montana three hours later, killing up to 17 people, a Federal Aviation Administration spokesman said.
"The plane was in route from Oroville to Bozeman for reasons we don't know," said FAA spokesman Les Dorr. "They diverted into Butte and crashed 500 feet short of the runway."
Tom Hagler, a mechanic at the Oroville airport, said this evening that he arrived at the airport at 11 a.m. and saw the plane. He let about a dozen children who were on the plane use the airport bathroom. The plane didn't refuel.
Hagler said he spoke briefly with the pilot but he didn't recognize the pilot or any of the children. He didn't know if any members of the group were local.
Hagler said he would be surprised if as many as 17 people could have been on the single prop plane. (more at link)

 

[SuziQ]

Forum chatters at Airliners.net state the plane capacity is 9 pax maximum.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4359084/

 

[SuziQ]

Either the plane reported is incorrect or the number of Pax incorrect, or there is a big problem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12


(snip)
Crew: one or two pilots

• Capacity: 9 passengers standard, 6-8 executive

 

[SuziQ]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PLANE_CRASH_MONTANA?SITE=CAVAC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

(snip)
In California, Tom Hagler said he saw a group of about a dozen children and four adults Sunday morning at the Oroville Municipal Airport, about 70 miles north of Sacramento.
Hagler, owner of Table Mountain Aviation, described the children as ranging from about 6- to 10 year olds. He let the children into his building to use the restroom.
"There were a lot of kids in the group," he said. "A lot of really cute kids."
Hagler said he showed the pilot where he could fill up on fuel, and the pilot said he expected his flight to take two-and-a-half hours. The pilot didn't file a flight plan at the Oroville airport.

 

[southcitymom]

No way a PC-12 (a really nice plane BTW) can hold 17 safely, much less legally.

Thread at a.net:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4359084/

Also, this really bad FedEx crash in Japan just a little while ago:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4359091/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6cMK9LUnzI

RIP to all.

So sad - my prayers for the families.

, do you still fly?

 

[PattyCake]

Gosh, this is sounding like it almost belongs in the crimes section here.

I'm so very upset with early reporting that the plane was far too overloaded and the pilots were pure idiots for flying so many at such an overweight. That's beyond an accident to me. ..... crying for the poor children, can't imagine their horror before their life ended.

Looking at the plane to me, there's no way it would fit 17 people, no matter the size of the child. raying: God Bless their families left behind.

The type of plane is in this link, rated for 9 passengers.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2212276/posts?page=1

 

[Marie]

FAA: 14 people, 7 kids, die in Mont. plane crash



Sunday, March 22, 2009

BUTTE, Mont. — A single engine turboprop airplane nose-dived into a cemetery as it approached the Butte airport Sunday afternoon, killing 14 people aboard, a federal official said.

The number of those dead was confirmed by Karen Byrd, an FAA operations officer in Renton, Wash. Byrd said the death toll included seven adults and seven children.

 

[SuziQ]

I don't know the weight of their gear, but five in one family was two adults, and three children 4,3, and 2 years old. They may have been ok weight wise.

http://www.montanasnewsstation.com/Global/story.asp?S=10050868&nav=menu227_4

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.ktvm.com/montana_news.php?id=0bf5a4b028209b7407b10e406880a01c

(snip)
Our latest information from Airport Security Chief Bickle tells us that the plane's passengers included three families from California who owned a vacation home in Big Sky. We're told they do not have family or friends in the Bozeman area. Among the deceased are six adults and seven children ranging in age from 4- to 12-years-old.
The plane was last seen in Oroville, California, and departed around noon, mountain time. The Oroville chief of police told reporters he is unsure where the occupants of the plane were from, but the plane did stop at their airport to refuel.

 

[PattyCake]

I don't know the weight of their gear, but five in one family was two adults, and three children 4,3, and 2 years old. They may have been ok weight wise.

http://www.montanasnewsstation.com/Global/story.asp?S=10050868&nav=menu227_4

There were 7 adults and 7 children this article reported. I think that's far too many for this size of plane. All other reports say there were 17 people aboard with the plane ranking 9.

I think this should be a criminal investigation because if there's anyone left alive that allowed this trip to go through like this, they need to be called to task.

 

[SuziQ]

(snips)
Investigators say they will look into possible overloading on a plane that crashed in Montana and killed all 14 people aboard.
The National Transportation Safety Board says the plane was likely designed to carry a total of 11 people, including two pilots. Seven of the 14 victims in Sunday's crash were children.

The plane that crashed in Montana, killing all 14 aboard, gave no indication to air traffic controllers that the aircraft was experiencing difficulty when the pilot asked to divert to the airport here, a federal safety official said Monday.
In an e-mail to The Associated Press, National Transportation Safety Board chairman Mark Rosenker said there was "no indication of any trouble when the diversion was requested to ATC (air traffic control)."

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/st...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-03-23-11-34-58

 

[southcitymom]

It's been a little while, I'd still do it every day if I had the opportunity. It's very relaxing for me.

I hear the same thing from the few pilots in my life. Please be safe when you do! Are you instrument certified? A small plane nosedived into a lake outside of Atlanta last month and one of the problems in that incident was the pilot's lack of instrument certification.

 

[sleuthin4fun]

10 members of one family. 2 sisters along with their husbands and 6 small children. That is something that I hope none of us have to experience. I think about losing both my brothers their wives and all their children, I think that would leave a hole in my heart bigger than I can imagine. Bless them all!

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I have been reading the updates of this horrific story and viewing the family pictures that have been placed out there. I have to say I am beyond emotional repair at this moment. Perhaps it's because there has been so many sorrowful deaths this week, but this one has hit me solid.

I weep for the families and those who loved them. The loss...I cannot even imagine. My heartfelt prayers to all who held these families so dear.

, I have know doubt you fly safe, but take it up a notch when you do. It would really suck losing a friend as yourself. Just say'in.

 

[JBean]

Poor Bud. He was driving up to meet his daughters and their families. what a nightmare.

David Feldkamp identified the family members killed as Dr. Vanessa Pullen, her husband, Mike, and their two children, plus Pullen's sister, Amy Jacobson of St. Helena, her husband, Erin, and their three children. The women are the daughters of Dr. Irving 'Bud' Feldkamp III, who owns a string of dental offices in Redlands and was driving up to meet the family in Montana, according to David Feldkamp, who is Bud Feldkamp’s cousin.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/03/---font-definit.html

 

[SuziQ]

Poor Bud is right. Horrible way to find out!

An alert recently issued about the plane sounds exactly like what witnesses saw:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/us/24crash.html?_r=1&hp

(snip)
On March 10, the Federal Aviation Administration issued an airworthiness directive that required safety inspections and repairs on all Pilatus airplanes for a problem that could threaten a loss of control of the plane. The directive called for the inspection and adjustment of a cable that helps the pilot control the up-and-down movement of the nose. It is not known whether Eagle Cap Leasing complied with the directive, which was effective March 30, or if that problem was a factor in the crash.
Since 2001, there have been 15 accidents involving Pilatus planes, six with deaths. The plane that crashed had not been involved in any previous accidents, according to a transportation safety board database.

 

[PattyCake]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510238,00.html

A bit more about the Grandfather who lost 9 family members including his 2 daughters & 5 grandkids. I cannot imagine the grief that family must be going through. God bless them all. ..............tears in Heaven.

 

[laura08]

This is so devasating, for the grandpa and to have experienced losing one grandchild before and now this. Prayers for everyone involved. Snipped from the article.
Feldkamp's family has gone through tragedy before. Two years ago, his 10-month-old grandson, Chase, died after he was found to have slipped between a mattress and the edge of a bed during a nap. The child was taken to a hospital and was eventually taken off life support.

 

[SuziQ]

Thanks. This story has been on my mind all day and I'm getting pissed off. Clearly this plane was overloaded and probably out of it's CG range. This should not have happened.

Max plane weight for a PC12/45 is about 9,900 pounds. Minimum fuel for the trip would be about 1,200 pounds, and the empty weight of the plane is about 5,900 pounds. This leaves about 2,800 pounds for passengers and baggage, or an average of 200 pounds per person for themselves and their gear. No way.

Also, the plane has 11 seats - 2 in the cockpit and 9 in the passenger area. 11 seats means 11 seat belts, lap children must be 2 or younger. There had to be 3 lap children to make the flight legal, and only 1 child qualified.

Being over weight would increase the rate of fuel use. As fuel burns in most planes like this one the center of gravity slowly moves aft, making the plane harder to control (less stable), which gets worse as you slow down.

Yeah, I'm speculating. But I think I'm right about being overloaded & out of trim.

I read somewhere that the pilot also loaded things on the plane before picking up the family.

What do you make of the icing issue? One thing to note is other pilots haven't come forward to say they experienced icing issues.

 

[tezi]

I am originally from Butte. I hate flying into the airport there. Don't like seeing the mountains all around me!

I am terribly sorry to hear about this tragedy. It sounds like it should have been avoided. I heard that one of the women was five months pregnant on the news this morning. That raises the death toll to 15, doesn't it? I couldn't imagine losing that many members of my family all at once.

O/T...Most of my dead family members are buried in that cemetary. It was so strange to see the footage of everything.