GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #114

[cottonweaver]

Agree. For instance, parking on Walenta allows walking down to the wooded parking area behind 1122.

Yes he could've been super careful on many of his prior 23 visits wrt using his car on King Rd itself ( Until weather turned colder and he wants to sit in his car at the back of 1122?)

Plus hanging around on foot, hidden in the trees seems to fit what we've been told about history of his behavior since living in PA. (He wants to spy while being unseen, that in itself probably gives him a thrill. Power/Control too)
and his stated interest in burglary crimes which he's still referencing in the TA office in Fall 2022.
He's devious enough. ( Even the other TAs are noticing he's devious re workload etc)

----
Returning to Q of how long he'd planned to commit an attack, what do you think of the notion that he'd already factored in his car reg being due to expire on Nov 30th? ( MPD documents state that on Nov 18 he reg'd the Elantra to WA - where he'd have 2 plates - and that it had been set to expire on 30th) Advance planning to commit a murder before Nov 30 or just a coincidence?

as an aside, vaguely recollect a reporter saying that when he went to change car reg he went in a face mask but dunno where I heard that but sounds like one of those dumb BK incidences which makes him more memorable.

 

[Warwick7]

Alivea Goncalves said many of Kaylee’s other belongings were picked up by their parents, covered in blood and in hazmat bags.

What was second weapon you used on Kaylee?" A hypothetical question in the moment, but one that investigators have yet to figure out. Kaylee Goncalves had unique injuries described as a horizontal pattern, and it’s not clear what caused them, police confirmed to ABC News.

Kaylee Goncalves' sister speaks out about courtroom confrontation with Bryan Kohberger

"I was prepared to be arrested that day," Alivea Goncalves told ABC News of confronting her younger sister's killer in court.

abcnews.go.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

I believe DeSales was during covid, so it was mostly done online.

Right, 2018 - 2022 The Murderer attended in person for at least half of that time IMO. He did have a lab partner etc. so he was attending classes in person for a period.

I wonder if he gained his glowing reputation from KR and MB during the in-person portion of his time there or more from the Zoom teachings where his odd behavior wouldn't have been so obvious?

JMO

 

[katydid23]

I wonder why this was such a massive problem at WSU but appears not one at all at deSales?

I think at DeSales he was doing a lot of online classes. The pandemic happened during much of his time there.

And he was not a Teaching Assistant, in charge of grading other student's papers at DeSales. He was just a student like the others he was studying with. That changes the power dynamic.

But there were 'similar' problems with BK and his treatment of females in high school, IIRC. So it was a pattern, IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

KG's sister was prepared to be arrested.

Kaylee Goncalves' Sister Alivea Says She Was 'Prepared to Be Arrested' After Statement at Bryan Kohberger's Sentencing

Alivea Goncalves has reflected on the victim impact statement she made at Bryan Kohberger's sentencing for the 2022 murder of her sister Kaylee Goncalves and three other University of Idaho students, saying she was worried that she might be arrested.

people.com

I don't know why she thought she might be arrested. If it was because of the use of profanity, I think that happens in many VI statements. They're raw and emotional, I believe the Court tends to give families a little leeway here.

Judge Hippler had some very tough words for the Murderer too. He was great in managing this case IMO.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Alivea Goncalves said many of Kaylee’s other belongings were picked up by their parents, covered in blood and in hazmat bags.

What was second weapon you used on Kaylee?" A hypothetical question in the moment, but one that investigators have yet to figure out. Kaylee Goncalves had unique injuries described as a horizontal pattern, and it’s not clear what caused them, police confirmed to ABC News.

Kaylee Goncalves' sister speaks out about courtroom confrontation with Bryan Kohberger

"I was prepared to be arrested that day," Alivea Goncalves told ABC News of confronting her younger sister's killer in court.

abcnews.go.com

I wonder why Kaylee’s things were covered in blood. Wouldn’t she have kept most items in her own bedroom?

 

[PunishThenForgive]

He quietly went upstairs and into Maddie's bedroom. I think he had the knife to coerce her to quietly leave with him..

I think he wanted to remove Maddie from the house and that his motive was sexual.

If Kaylee had not been there, I don't think that Kohberger's sole objective was to stab Maddie. I also don't think he intended to do anything to her with others in the house. I think he wanted to get her out of the house fast.

SBM

(Snipped by me)

Your scenario is chilling and reminiscent of Ted Bundy, whom the murderer apparently admired.

However, I think if he wanted to kidnap a roommate, he would have parked on the side road in line with the back patio and kidnapped Dylan— possibly through her window to avoid the fairy-lit back patio.

Alternatively, he could have parked in the front of the house and kidnapped Bethany—through her window, the front door, or the spare room window on the first floor. (Xana likely turned off the front exterior light after picking up her DoorDash order, which would leave the front parking area pitch black—like it was in the night-time bodycam footage.)

It would be comparatively difficult for the murderer to kidnap Maddie since he would have to walk with her (or carry her) down a narrow flight of stairs, pass Dylan’s room, and then up a hill to his waiting car.

If he wanted to kidnap Maddie, he could have just grabbed her while she was outside pottying Murphy: He lures Murphy to him, Maddie follows Murphy up the hill, then he forces Maddie into his car.

As terrible as the murders were, being kidnapped, raped and murdered would be even worse IMO, so I’m glad he didn’t do this (even if he planned to).

IMOO, of course.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Right, 2018 - 2022 The Murderer attended in person for at least half of that time IMO. He did have a lab partner etc. so he was attending classes in person for a period.

I wonder if he gained his glowing reputation from KR and MB during the in-person portion of his time there or more from the Zoom teachings where his odd behavior wouldn't have been so obvious?

JMO

I think at DeSales he was doing a lot of online classes. The pandemic happened during much of his time there.

And he was not a Teaching Assistant, in charge of grading other student's papers at DeSales. He was just a student like the others he was studying with. That changes the power dynamic.

But there were 'similar' problems with BK and his treatment of females in high school, IIRC. So it was a pattern, IMO.

The murderer started at DeSales in person as a third-year undergraduate in the fornensics track of psychology in 2018. Dr. Katherine Ramsland was his advisor, and he took several in-person classes with her.

He was finishing up his in-person undergraduate courses at DeSales when Covid hit in March 2020, which likely forced him to transition to online classes through the end of the semester.

His graduate masters degree at DeSales was an entirely online program, and his graduate advisor was Dr. Michelle Bolger. He would have worked closely with her, though not in person.

 

[Warwick7]

I wonder why Kaylee’s things were covered in blood. Wouldn’t she have kept most items in her own bedroom?

I wonder if Maddie and Kaylee shared things back and forth (even tho she moved back home). With the blood cast off, all sorts of things could end up being covered.

 

[Lilibet]

I wonder why Kaylee’s things were covered in blood. Wouldn’t she have kept most items in her own bedroom?

She had already moved out and was just visiting for the weekend to show the girls her new car before moving to Texas. I doubt she had much with her (overnight bag perhaps?) and just kept it in Maddie’s room, since she slept in with her.
JMO

 

[Dotta]

Again the second weapon is brought out again.

IMO
it might have been Police style long flashlight/

 

[Megnut]

Josh Ritter once again speaks with Kevin Fixler, this time about Fixler’s recent Bill Thompson interview:

• Fixler discusses his hour-long interview with Prosecutor Bill Thompson that took place this morning (Monday, July 28)
• Next up for Bill Thompson is going through the unsealing process of court docs with Judge Hippler
• The prosecution team was fully ready to go to trial and thought they could secure a conviction, and Josh Hurwit was disappointed they didn’t get to go to trial (though he was on board with the plea deal).
• The plea deal was not a plea bargain, meaning there was no negotiation with the Defense. Fixler says the Prosecution may have been surprised the Defense accepted the deal.
• Thompson wanted the murderer to admit guilt, which he wouldn’t have to do with a trial.
• The murderer would most likely have been found by LE without the DNA on the knife sheath (due to the car and cell phone tower evidence, plus the Amazon purchase of the knife and sheath), however, it may have been difficult to charge him (which they didn’t do until after the trash pull in PA).
• LE did not receive the footage from the neighboring property (1112 King Rd) until a week and a half after the murders since the students living there had left Moscow.
• Thompson said there is more evidence in court records that he can’t yet speak about. This evidence increased their confidence that they had the right man.
• Dylan saw the murderer carrying something with both hands, with an arrow-shaped object on top (possibly the knife).
• Dylan didn’t know someone else was in the house when she heard a person running down the stairs, so she may have just heard the murderer (and not Kaylee or Xana).
• They aren’t sure whether Xana or Ethan was killed first.
• There is no evidence that the murderer sat in Xana’s room, nor was Xana’s blood found on the third floor.
• The back of Ethan’s legs were cut.
• James Fry was upset about the leak of the security camera footage and wants the leaker to be found.
• Fixler emphasizes importance of vetting all sources, which Dateline didn’t do, apparently. He will, however, trust what the lead prosecutor tells him in an interview.
• The murderer is not Pappa Rodger.
• Thompson intends to finish up his four-year term, but may leave early once he stabilizes his office.
• The DoorDash driver didn’t see the murderer himself (the person), but she would have been called as a witness (more to come from Fixler in The Idaho Statesman).
• According to LE, the murderer may have chosen the house at random right before the murders! (It was a crime of opportunity.)
• Thompson pursued and got the death penalty only one time in his career, but it the death penalty was removed on appeal; after that, Thompson did not pursue death penalty until the present case.
• Fixler invites everyone to attend the hour-long Idaho Statesman livestream Q & A on the case (linked earlier in this thread by @LetsSolvIt) that takes place tomorrow (Tuesday, July 29) from 2 to 3 pm EDT: How we covered the crime that captivated the world

(Bullet point #8) Why can't BT discuss additional evidence yet? Does he have to wait for the corresponding documents to be unsealed?

 

[Megnut]

Josh Ritter once again speaks with Kevin Fixler, this time about Fixler’s recent Bill Thompson interview:

• Fixler discusses his hour-long interview with Prosecutor Bill Thompson that took place this morning (Monday, July 28)
• Next up for Bill Thompson is going through the unsealing process of court docs with Judge Hippler
• The prosecution team was fully ready to go to trial and thought they could secure a conviction, and Josh Hurwit was disappointed they didn’t get to go to trial (though he was on board with the plea deal).
• The plea deal was not a plea bargain, meaning there was no negotiation with the Defense. Fixler says the Prosecution may have been surprised the Defense accepted the deal.
• Thompson wanted the murderer to admit guilt, which he wouldn’t have to do with a trial.
• The murderer would most likely have been found by LE without the DNA on the knife sheath (due to the car and cell phone tower evidence, plus the Amazon purchase of the knife and sheath), however, it may have been difficult to charge him (which they didn’t do until after the trash pull in PA).
• LE did not receive the footage from the neighboring property (1112 King Rd) until a week and a half after the murders since the students living there had left Moscow.
• Thompson said there is more evidence in court records that he can’t yet speak about. This evidence increased their confidence that they had the right man.
• Dylan saw the murderer carrying something with both hands, with an arrow-shaped object on top (possibly the knife).
• Dylan didn’t know someone else was in the house when she heard a person running down the stairs, so she may have just heard the murderer (and not Kaylee or Xana).
• They aren’t sure whether Xana or Ethan was killed first.
• There is no evidence that the murderer sat in Xana’s room, nor was Xana’s blood found on the third floor.
• The back of Ethan’s legs were cut.
• James Fry was upset about the leak of the security camera footage and wants the leaker to be found.
• Fixler emphasizes importance of vetting all sources, which Dateline didn’t do, apparently. He will, however, trust what the lead prosecutor tells him in an interview.
• The murderer is not Pappa Rodger.
• Thompson intends to finish up his four-year term, but may leave early once he stabilizes his office.
• The DoorDash driver didn’t see the murderer himself (the person), but she would have been called as a witness (more to come from Fixler in The Idaho Statesman).
• According to LE, the murderer may have chosen the house at random right before the murders! (It was a crime of opportunity.)
• Thompson pursued and got the death penalty only one time in his career, but it the death penalty was removed on appeal; after that, Thompson did not pursue death penalty until the present case.
• Fixler invites everyone to attend the hour-long Idaho Statesman livestream Q & A on the case (linked earlier in this thread by @LetsSolvIt) that takes place tomorrow (Tuesday, July 29) from 2 to 3 pm EDT: How we covered the crime that captivated the world

Wow! They didn't get the 1112 video for a week and a half. So lucky it wasn't overwritten.

I don't see how this could have been a spontaneous crime of opportinuty. Maybe LE just means they couldn't necessarily prove he was circling that house all those 23 times. The evidence sure suggests it though. Including his final loops.

It may well be the case the thst the felon purposefully chose a victim with will he had little connection. That thst was his strategy. He bought the weapon long before he was even in the vicinity. He bought a sharpener. He intended to use the knife.

The felon planned to murder SOMEONE long before he decided WHOM he was going to murder.

IMO he left his Pullman apartment and drove directly to 1122. As he had 23 times.

The State seems to be sticking carefully to what they could prove, not venturing into what they think happened or what the evidence suggests.

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

IMO
it might have been Police style long flashlight/

Could be but we've been here before though haven't we? ( Not criticizing you Dotta, he could've arrived with many weapons, am just saying..)

Last week it was 'gagged' and 'asphyxiated' ( then in turned out it was wrt to airways and blood - like drowning) I completely understand why any family member could misinterpret phrases - it's all so emotional and they're not trained. Also genuinely appreciate why they want to know everything & all the graphic details but I think this is where their lawyer could help them & ease their concerns.

Ash Banfield also knows all that...

When Shannen relays info to AB saying ' they couldn't figure out what the second weapon was' it's not hard to imagine that LE actually said something like...
'we cannot conclusively determine what produced the blunt force injuries' and ' in answer to your Q yes there could've been a 2nd weapon but we believe all the injuries are consistent with the use of a Ka-bar' ( I'm imagining that MPD had some of the most expert forensic paths inputting, from FBI or ISP, it's probably not that they're too dumb to ' figure it out ' but the scientists can't be definitive 100%) )



Who's 'using' whom?

 

[Dotta]

Could be but we've been here before though haven't we? ( Not criticizing you Dotta, he could've arrived with many weapons, am just saying..)

Last week it was 'gagged' and 'asphyxiated' ( then in turned out it was wrt to airways and blood - like drowning) I completely understand why any family member could misinterpret phrases - it's all so emotional and they're not trained. Also genuinely appreciate why they want to know everything & all the graphic details but I think this is where their lawyer could help them & ease their concerns.

Ash Banfield also knows all that...

When Shannen relays info to AB saying ' they couldn't figure out what the second weapon was' it's not hard to imagine that LE actually said something like...
'we cannot conclusively determine what produced the blunt force injuries' and ' in answer to your Q yes there could've been a 2nd weapon but we believe all the injuries are consistent with the use of a Ka-bar' ( I'm imagining that MPD had some of the most expert forensic paths inputting, from FBI or ISP, it's probably not that they're too dumb to ' figure it out ' but the scientists can't be definitive 100%) )



Who's 'using' whom?

I understand what you mean.
I really do.

But, honestly, I'm not sure if the knife handle could inflict such devastating injuries which were reported
(broken cheekbones, knocked out teeth).

I mean, the knife handle doesn't seem to be long enough.

That is why I persist with a long, heavy flashlight.
A longer tool handle usually allows to generate more impact strength.

And now they talk about the second weapon.

Why would it be so strange that BK had a torch?
I would be surprised if he didn't.

JMO

 

[otto]

(Snipped by me)

Your scenario is chilling and reminiscent of Ted Bundy, whom the murderer apparently admired.

However, I think if he wanted to kidnap a roommate, he would have parked on the side road in line with the back patio and kidnapped Dylan— possibly through her window to avoid the fairy-lit back patio.

Alternatively, he could have parked in the front of the house and kidnapped Bethany—through her window, the front door, or the spare room window on the first floor. (Xana likely turned off the front exterior light after picking up her DoorDash order, which would leave the front parking area pitch black—like it was in the night-time bodycam footage.)

It would be comparatively difficult for the murderer to kidnap Maddie since he would have to walk with her (or carry her) down a narrow flight of stairs, pass Dylan’s room, and then up a hill to his waiting car.

If he wanted to kidnap Maddie, he could have just grabbed her while she was outside pottying Murphy: He lures Murphy to him, Maddie follows Murphy up the hill, then he forces Maddie into his car.

As terrible as the murders were, being kidnapped, raped and murdered would be even worse IMO, so I’m glad he didn’t do this (even if he planned to).

IMOO, of course.

I believe that Maddie was his primary interest - not anyone else. It wasn't about who was easiest to target. It was high risk and more exciting that Maddie was alone on the top floor (he didn't know about Kaylee) and others were in the house at the time.

If his plan was to abduct Maddie, he would have used the knife to keep her silent. No one would have heard anything, just like they did not hear Kohberger enter the house and walk upstairs.

I think there was something thrilling about taking a young woman out of her bed in the middle of the night, leaving no trace (other than victim blood) behind. That is the story of Bundy's first known victim. Kohberger viewed himself as brilliant, superior, smart like Bundy, capable of stalking a victim, sneaking into her house, quietly taking her away, and getting away with it for years.

Kohberger would have known that murdering 4 of 6 students in a house vastly increased the chance of arrest. For his first murder, the methodical, rigid-thinker Kohberger would have had a much cleaner plan. I'm convinced that this long road trip after the murders was a rigid step in his original plan to abduct and murder. Even though his plan went sideways instantly, he was rigidly unable to deviate from that part of the plan.

He can't admit the truth because it means exposing that he is a bumbling failure at what he (and others) perceived as his brilliance.

"A popular college student vanished in the night from her bed, leaving behind only bloody sheets and few clues about the evil she encountered while her roommates slept, but the mysterious disappearance would earn her an unfortunate place in American history.

In February 1974, Lynda Ann Healy would cross paths with one of the country’s most prolific serial killers and become Ted Bundy’s first known victim."

Who Was Lynda Ann Healy, Ted Bundy's First Known Victim, And Why Was The Crime Scene 'Unique?' | Oxygen

A popular college student vanished in the night from her bed, leaving behind only bloody sheets and few clues about the evil she encountered while her roommates slept, but the mysterious disappearance would earn her an unfortunate place in American history. In February 1974, Lynda Ann Healy...

www.oxygen.com

Timeline of many of Ted Bundy's brutal crimes

Bundy is returning to the national consciousness three decades after he was killed and we reflect on the 30 lives, and possibly many more, he violently stole.

abcnews.go.com

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Right, 2018 - 2022 The Murderer attended in person for at least half of that time IMO. He did have a lab partner etc. so he was attending classes in person for a period.

I wonder if he gained his glowing reputation from KR and MB during the in-person portion of his time there or more from the Zoom teachings where his odd behavior wouldn't have been so obvious?

JMO

He was in person during undergrad studies, 2018-2020.
I'm guessing here but with some level of experience behind the guesses: Undergrad classes tend to be lecture, lecture mixed with discussion, or lecture, discussion and "hands on" because they are content oriented. Grad classes at major universities tend to research-based or seminars.

I'm attaching a list of the WSU doctoral program requirements so you can see that in whatever format WSU courses took, the preliminary exams after PhD coursework involve developing questions in a "substantive areas" of specialization and QUESTIONS on the "methodology/statistics" aspects and then writing a synthesis paper in response to faculty questions. This is in format much like the program that I did, although I'm in a field that is more qualitative, theoretical, and historical than quantitative, analytics and statistical. This work requires understanding of the FIELD and its issues and methods of inquiry rather than the recollection of facts and procedures. It doesn't allow much leeway for new students to show off prior knowledge or opinions but rather developing the ability to analyze and synthesize within the field and subfield.

 

[whatzthebuzz]

~snip~

That is the story of Bundy's first known victim. Kohberger viewed himself as brilliant, superior, smart like Bundy, capable of stalking a victim, sneaking into her house, quietly taking her away, and getting away with it for years.

This is a very interesting theory.

I'd like to see his body language if someone posited this to him.

IMO

 

[otto]

Kaylee's family has discussed that she received severe injuries. Imagine Kohberger - the man who was aggressive towards professors when they told him that he needed to improve professionalism, and that he treated women unfairly. As soon as he saw Kaylee, he would have viewed her as interfering with his plan and gone into a rage - zero to one hundred aggression against Kaylee (another woman causing problems for him).

Then he discovered by Xana - continued rage. Ethan's legs were cut. By then it sounds like he was in a stupor. Nothing had gone according to plan. He didn't react when Dylan opened her door. He went to his car and drove away like a maniac.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I wonder whether the killer's interest in sleeping victims makes it less likely he was interested in abduction. And certainly having a victim in his car would ratchet up the possibility of leaving DNA, hair, etc. in the vehicle.