GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #114

[BeginnerSleuther]

From what I have read harrassment becomes a criminal offense when it escalates to physical contact, threats, coercion, sexual battery, assault, stalking, or rape, which are all criminal acts.

Stalking is a possibility, if people had to be walked to their cars, and coercion is very broad in scope but blocking egress from an office (intimidation) might fall under that. And I have no knowledge of any reports of physical contact or threats, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.. So yes, I'll have to see what is what.

Harassment may become criminal if it escalates a certain degree, but we're not aware of any evidence that it did in this case (or that they knew it had prior to the murders), as far as I know. I have read the lawsuit and I don't see anything in there that indicates police should have been investigating criminal behavior before the murders. If people had to be walked to their cars, without overt threat, that's not criminal. No one is responsible for someone else's feelings toward them. For instance, if John Doe creeps out Jane Doe because John Doe stares at her and Jane Doe just has a bad feeling about him, Jane Doe may ask for a police escort. It could be his stares give her chills or make the hair on her arm stand up, but unless John Doe has actively done something threatening or illegal, no one is going to hold John Doe responsible for emotions he evoked in Jane Doe, nor should they.

We all bring our own history to every interaction we have with others. Our personality and intuition is a patchwork of life experiences, environmental influences, and genetics. That's why someone may give one girl the creeps and be dating another girl who isn't nearly creeped out, despite the person exhibiting the exact same behavior. Laws are crafted to take that into consideration, which is why the bar is high to charge someone with stalking or harassment.

The other thing is that even if police had been alerted and BK had been talked to by law enforcement, I seriously doubt he would have been arrested (based on what we know) and there is no way to say he still wouldn't have committed the murders. The only thing that would have stopped BK from killing is if he was in prison at the time of the murders. Short of that, I don't think the families have a case because even if WSU didn't follow their own protocol, even if WSU could have fired him sooner, none of that suggests it would have prevented the crime.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think what I am trying to say is the emotional content of this lawsuit may very well out weigh any exculpatory evidence or legal protocol that did or didn't happen regarding this man in their program. It's just my call and I am predicting damages awarded and reforms aquiessed to. mOO

I agree, and I think that would be a shame. Laws and lawsuits should be based on facts and legal standards, not emotion. It's how we keep everyone safe.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

This is bad PR for this institution.
It might be that young people would boycott it choosing other universities.
Imagine paying lots of money for your education and being harassed by some perverts with no help whatsoever

Good reputation is priceless.
It boggles my mind some don't realize this simple truth.

JMO

I think most of us recognize that, which is why so many of us are agreeing there's going to be a settlement. Some of us just don't think it's right. Courts should be used only for proper legal standards and settlements should be reached for the same reason. If the bad PR and emotion forces WSU to settle, that's not justice.

MOO.

 

[minazoe]

if they find anymore mismanagement of similar situations or students, if others come forward and say their concerns were dismissed.. then it is also opening the door for the actual students in Koh-b's class to claim they were endangered and not taken seriously.


in a lawsuit you are asking for and showing damages..that's a huge part of the suit...the damages, the repercussions and the results of the defendant's actions. It's not a criminal case where everything is weighed by facts and laws.

mOO

 

[Serononin]

I'm actually not sure the families would accept a settlement if it was offered. I think they want whatever evidence might emerge through this process to be heard publicly

 

[Dotta]

I'm actually not sure the families would accept a settlement if it was offered. I think they want whatever evidence might emerge through this process to be heard publicly

I agree.
It is NOT about money.
(Hush money???)
It is about accountability & transparency.
And needed changes.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

if they find anymore mismanagement of similar situations or students, if others come forward and say their concerns were dismissed.. then it is also opening the door for the actual students in Koh-b's class to claim they were endangered and not taken seriously.


in a lawsuit you are asking for and showing damages..that's a huge part of the suit...the damages, the repercussions and the results of the defendant's actions. It's not a criminal case where everything is weighed by facts and laws.

mOO

Damages is where it all goes wrong for the families. They have to draw a direct line between WSU inaction and the murder of their children. There is no line there, IMO, and they have no standing to sue on WSU's internal policies.

And I disagree that lawsuits aren't weighed by facts and law. They are definitely guided by established case law and facts around a case. It's the burden of proof that isn't the same.

MOO.

 

[minazoe]

Damages is where it all goes wrong for the families. They have to draw a direct line between WSU inaction and the murder of their children. There is no line there, IMO, and they have no standing to sue on WSU's internal policies.

And I disagree that lawsuits aren't weighed by facts and law. They are definitely guided by established case law and facts around a case. It's the burden of proof that isn't the same.

MOO.

we can agree to disagree, yes the burden of proof is not the same. and I have stated multiple times that there may be no case, except there is one and I think it will be settled. for every legal mind that says" no case" there will be law enforcement professionals who will say the ball was dropped and these murders might have been deterred by intervention. I support the plaintiffs 100 percent. mOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

we can agree to disagree, yes the burden of proof is not the same. and I have stated multiple times that there may be no case, except there is one and I think it will be settled. for every legal mind that says" no case" there will be law enforcement professionals who will say the ball was dropped and these murders might have been deterred by intervention. I support the plaintiffs 100 percent. mOO

Disagreeing they have a case doesn't mean I don't support the plaintiffs in general. I just think this lawsuit is wrong. I do think WSU will settle to get it out of the news.

MOO.

 

[LinasK]

the very premise of their academic program is being able to identify criminals, work in crime prevention, forensics, analyzing predators, becoming expert in profiling etc. lol, so much for a college criminology programs. the irony is just astonishing.

The people in position at WSU-or any university for that matter -to act on BK's behavior and fire him, aren't the professors who teach criminal profiling.

 

[LinasK]

M

Actually, one could like at it as putting another entity on notice there’s a problem with BK if he had been terminated. At least if WSU had followed through on the protocols in place, more information may have been gained about his problems.

Also, TAs may be terminated, termination does not have to be at the end of the term.

There was no other entity to put on notice once he was fired. Who were they going to notify? Certainly not LE in Moscow, Idaho, another state, and not even LE in Pullman Washington. He wasn't transferring to another university, and they also wouldn't notify LE in Pennsylvania for his firing. So who should they notify?

 

[LinasK]

I think BK would have carried out the murders, whether he had been suspended or not

MOO

Exactly! It just might have been in Washington or Pennsylvania rather than Idaho, but firing him earlier would not have stopped him.

 

[LinasK]

hasn't it been said that BK was stalking the victims for months? what could have been discovered if he had been investigated early on? taken his phones, accessed his laptop ? we won't ever know. possible outcomes that can't be measured and victims that can't be rescued, infinite sorrow that can't be undone. if I'm the judge or on a jury, I am awarding damages.

mOO

It takes victim reporting for that to happen. Maybe the women at WSU didn't take him seriously enough, or maybe they feared repercussions for reporting him.

 

[LinasK]

it's just a lost opportunity..I don't know what that means in terms of legal weight but not everything can be technical or measured.

what do cops do if you have been accused of stalking? they probably want to take a look at your phone and want you to give it up voluntarily...and what happens when you refuse?

mOO

Cops have to have probable cause to get a warrant for someone's laptop, otherwise they let him go.

 

[minazoe]

Cops have to have probable cause to get a warrant for someone's laptop, otherwise they let him go.

could be they had probable cause with 13 reports .

 

[LinasK]

This is bad PR for this institution.
It might be that young people would boycott it choosing other universities.
Imagine paying lots of money for your education and being harassed by some perverts with no help whatsoever

Good reputation is priceless.
It boggles my mind some don't realize this simple truth.

JMO

Which is exactly why WSU should fight this suit and not settle. And I do realize exactly what you are saying. It's why I dissuaded my daughter from attending University of Rochester.

 

[Cool Cats]

I got behind.

Could some of you good people link me and/or explain to me about this WSU civil lawsuit?

This didn't even happen on WSU grounds and BK was already being flagged for unprofessional behavior.

Does this seem like a frivolous law suit?

 

[LinasK]

I got behind.

Could some of you good people link me and/or explain to me about this WSU civil lawsuit?

This didn't even happen on WSU grounds and BK was already being flagged for unprofessional behavior.

Does this seem like a frivolous law suit?

It does to me. I fail to see how the victims parents have any standing to sue a university in another state for failing to act sooner, or how that would have prevented him from murdering.

 

[Cool Cats]

It does to me. I fail to see how the victims parents have any standing to sue a university in another state for failing to act sooner, or how that would have prevented him from murdering.

I am thinking the same.

 

[LinasK]

could be they had probable cause with 13 reports .

It's not LE who is being sued. And "could be" won't stand up in a court of law.