Please Read! Thank You to Josh Zeman, Rachel Mills, and A&E

[hawkshaw]

Many, many, years ago I had a nice case of grand larceny out of the garment district. A manager stole a lot of inventory from his employer. A few 100 thousand which was a lot of money back then. Next question is how did he get a lot of the merchandise out of the factory. That led me to an OC trucking company owned by Tommy Gambino. That brings me to an interview of the fellow running that place. Not that I expected to get anything, but why not shake the trees and see what falls out.

What I get was a very subtle suggestion for a bribe. I wasn't equipped to document the bribe attempt so I bring it back to my boss, a much more experienced cop than me. I ask him if we set this up properly we can get a big OC guy and who knows where this is going to lead. The first thing the LT tells me is if he thinks he has a chance to bribe you then he probably has bribed other cops and he will offer that as proof he is a 'good' guy. Do you really want to go there. He is right of course as other events showed that to be true.

This is what is going on with LISK IMHO. The DA knew enough to quash the case even if he didn't know who the killer was. He knew enough to know if he pursued this case as he should have it would probably lead to a nest of corruption. Some things NEVER change in any police department. More than likely the DA felt it was important to remove certain elements from this case: E.G. Bissett and Brewer by eliminating them as suspects.

 

[Hollowspiral1]

Anyone that is blocked (locked) from watching The Killing Season, it is on the app Tubi Tv in the Android store or Google Play. That is how I just recently found out about Websleuths. The series was so interesting that I want to watch it again in case I missed something. The LISK case really is a baffling one to say the least. There are so many different avenues to possibly go down to find the guilty. We just cannot forget these victims deserve justice, even after all these years, attempts, and failures, closure has got to be found.
Never give up, and never surrender. They all were and still are someone's loved one. God bless.

 

[Sirdigby]

I was watching the A&E series about the Long Island Serial Killer and heard about websleuths. While I watch cold case documentaries I find myself often googling, as I expect many of you do. During the "Joe Foti" segment of the show I did a quick google search of the name and found that not much was being said regarding it. As many of you probably did, I first thought it was a stretch to assume that police would release a name via wikipedia alluding to the killer.

I did however continue to search and came across the obituary of a Frank Joseph Foti who died November of 2017 at the age of 42 of West Babylon NY. (Link Below) I found it interesting that he loosely fits the profile of the killer. After continuing to search I found that not much else could be found about this man other than the address associated with him. 235 Arnold Avenue, West Babylon. He also has a facebook page that is still up with photos and other information.

Frank Joseph Foti Obituary - Babylon, NY
Frank J Foti, West Babylon - post your report about resident of 235 Arnold Ave
Frank Foti

Going through the family photos left on the obituary page, it shows that he was formerly a Marine. He had a wife and kids. There is a photo of him working on power lines and in the background there is a Time Warner truck. This could mean that he was a Time Warner technician at some point and would have been able to access other IP addresses and potentially post from them. Lastly, If you throw the address into google maps, you'll find his address sits just north of the LISK dumping ground. His death also could explain why he hasn't been caught.

This is all I have for you. This is also a stretch but perhaps there is something here.

 

[PingTheRouter]

i thought it was fantastic, the first 4 episodes were really well done about LISK

the rest are an interesting documentary on missing women across states and how they connect to each other and how they don't get reported or investigated like they should

i still go back and watch this series every year just to keep it fresh, i was really hoping for a season 2 with the recent new information but people have reported its unlikley to happen which is a shame

 

[mage]

.

This is what is going on with LISK IMHO. The DA knew enough to quash the case even if he didn't know who the killer was. He knew enough to know if he pursued this case as he should have it would probably lead to a nest of corruption. Some things NEVER change in any police department. More than likely the DA felt it was important to remove certain elements from this case: E.G. Bissett and Brewer by eliminating them as suspects.

So now it has been almost 2 years since you wrote that you believe Spota quashed the Shannan Gilbert case because it MIGHT lead to a nest of corruption?
Spota's never been honest for one hour in a day since the day he was born.

The Netflix movie was a for-profit movie with a LOT of made up shyte. Dormer did not sit with Dr. Hackett and ask him stuff.
Dormer COVERED up and Hackett was mobbed up with the cops. Hackett got out of town, Coletti died, Brennan got out of town
why? cuz they were told to get the F out.

Bissette's wife Caroline was harassed by the cops IMMEDIATELY AFTER the funeral of her husband James Bissette - who allegedly suicided himself.
so WHY would the police surround Mrs. Bissette and ticket her fraudulently if he really had bi polar episode and killed himself.
Why would the police harass Tania Lopez when she was writing about Loeb-Burke beat down.
why hasn't John Ray done ANYTHING right in this case - he's on tv once a month making shyte up as he goes.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Many, many, years ago I had a nice case of grand larceny out of the garment district. A manager stole a lot of inventory from his employer. A few 100 thousand which was a lot of money back then. Next question is how did he get a lot of the merchandise out of the factory. That led me to an OC trucking company owned by Tommy Gambino. That brings me to an interview of the fellow running that place. Not that I expected to get anything, but why not shake the trees and see what falls out.

What I get was a very subtle suggestion for a bribe. I wasn't equipped to document the bribe attempt so I bring it back to my boss, a much more experienced cop than me. I ask him if we set this up properly we can get a big OC guy and who knows where this is going to lead. The first thing the LT tells me is if he thinks he has a chance to bribe you then he probably has bribed other cops and he will offer that as proof he is a 'good' guy. Do you really want to go there. He is right of course as other events showed that to be true.

This is what is going on with LISK IMHO. The DA knew enough to quash the case even if he didn't know who the killer was. He knew enough to know if he pursued this case as he should have it would probably lead to a nest of corruption. Some things NEVER change in any police department. More than likely the DA felt it was important to remove certain elements from this case: E.G. Bissett and Brewer by eliminating them as suspects.

Would love to get your input on this as the story develops. Do you think it's one of LISK's victims? The timing of the discovery is almost too much, with the documentary having been released 24-48 hours prior.

BREAKING: Human remains found in Long Island residential backyard

Also, do you think Bittrolf could be responsible? I realize he's only been convicted of 2 murders. But curious what your thoughts are on wether or not he could be LISK. Thanks, @hawkshaw.

 

[hawkshaw]

What it probably means is someone killed someone attached to them and needed to get rid of the body.
We had this case where a woman came home to find her boyfriend filling a very big hole in her backyard. She asked him what he was doing and he told her he was a hit man for Gotti and he is burying the body in a freezer box. Now that is a pretty big hole.

Gal goes to the FBI. They laugh her out of the office. She comes to us and 2 detectives say what the hell lets go see.

Why Burke and Spota would be concerned having the FBI hanging around on the LISK case is one of life's biggest mysteries

 

[fred&edna]

Would love to get your input on this as the story develops. Do you think it's one of LISK's victims? The timing of the discovery is almost too much, with the documentary having been released 24-48 hours prior.

BREAKING: Human remains found in Long Island residential backyard

Also, do you think Bittrolf could be responsible? I realize he's only been convicted of 2 murders. But curious what your thoughts are on wether or not he could be LISK. Thanks, @hawkshaw.

Where exactly on Long Island were these discovered... anyone know?? Any additional news reports?

 

[hawkshaw]

Centereach in Suffolk County. No where near Oak Beach. Chances are not related to Gilgo. But who knows with these people. I suspect this case will be solved as first look I would call this a 'ground ball.'. Nothing additional to report.
Don't know who owned the house when the body was buried. SCPD should have no problem with this one. Most of them are very good detectives despite what you have been reading in the papers and blog boards.

 

[fred&edna]

Centereach in Suffolk County. No where near Oak Beach. Chances are not related to Gilgo. But who knows with these people. I suspect this case will be solved as first look I would call this a 'ground ball.'. Nothing additional to report.
Don't know who owned the house when the body was buried. SCPD should have no problem with this one. Most of them are very good detectives despite what you have been reading in the papers and blog boards.

Thanks

 

[GoBuckeyes]

What it probably means is someone killed someone attached to them and needed to get rid of the body.
We had this case where a woman came home to find her boyfriend filling a very big hole in her backyard. She asked him what he was doing and he told her he was a hit man for Gotti and he is burying the body in a freezer box. Now that is a pretty big hole.

Gal goes to the FBI. They laugh her out of the office. She comes to us and 2 detectives say what the hell lets go see.

Why Burke and Spota would be concerned having the FBI hanging around on the LISK case is one of life's biggest mysteries

Thank you for your insight, Hawkshaw. I appreciate it.

 

[hawkshaw]

That and 15 cents gets you on the subway i.e. my insights.

 

[hawkshaw]

The Stiff in the Box gave rise to several interesting stories - in fact it did as TV NYPD BLUE did several episodes connected to the case.
The gal that started it all took up with the detective assigned to the case. The detective puts her up in her own apartment.
The same gal winds up found in the weeds on Crossbay Blvd, Queens.
A rogue police lieutenant goes to the dead gal' mother and tells he the detective may have killed her. No one ever believed that.
Fellow detectives attempt to erase any information from the gal's apartment connecting the dead gal to the detective.
People get transferred. Promotions are on hold.
And this all started from nothing.

 

[hawkshaw]

This gal went to the FBI and told them when she got home she saw her boyfriend filling in a very big hole. It was a home freezer so it had to be a very big hole. in the freezer was a frozen body. He tells the gal he is a hit man for John Gotti. Now that part wasn't true, but the dead body was. The FBI laughed her out of the office. She goes to the local precinct and lo-and-behold they go there and find the body.

Yeah, the FBI is working real hard on the LISK case.

 

[WyomingHunter]

I am uncertain where to place this thread, but this seemed like a good spot. This is going to be long, you have been forewarned.
I just finished "The Killing Season", and it was incredible. However, there were some things that I felt were not addressed that, to me, were in dire need of being at least introduced. The series mentions a second set of bodies that were discovered after the initial four, and that the prevailing thought was that the bodies were left by a second serial killer. The series also mentions that one of the bodies was found near a LISK dump site, or incredibly close to one. One of you fantastic folks named Peter was consulted, and he suggested that the act of leaving a new corpse at another killers dumpsite was possibly an act of aggression or territorial in nature. I disagree with that assumption.

Our society has an odd fascination with serial killers. This forum and others like it are a testament to that fact. Upon seeing this part of the program, my immediate thoughts went three possible ways
1) The second killer (B) was inspired by LISK and thus left a single corpse as an homage to him
2) The killer of the second set of victims was LISK himself
3) LISK was inspired by Joel Rifkin.

1- I dont not believe that the second killer was acting out of a sense of aggression or territorial greed when they deposited a victim near the original LISK site. Rather, I think it was an homage to LISK himself. The goal of the second killer was to show that LISK had inspired him, that he admired LISK, and the best way he could show LISK this admiration was to leave a message that only he would understand. He probably didnt know LISK personally, and thus this was the only way he could get this very specific message across. If he had simply mimicked LISKs dumping pattern or positioned his victims the same way, that could come across as copycat behavior, or perhaps even mocking. By tying the original LISK sites to his own killings, killer B shows that he admires LISK, and is offering proof of his own success as a killer. I do not believe this to be an act of aggression. Usually, such actions garner immediate and superior responses. This, as far as I am aware, did not happen in this case. No "killing war" erupted between these two killers. The most logical explanation for this is because this was not an act of aggression or escalation, but of admiration, and LISK knows that. This is similar to the case of Jack Unterweger, an Austrian serial killer. Unterweger was a journalist, and spent time in the United States and even stayed a the same hotel as Richard Ramirez, The Night Stalker, did. And while it has never been proven that this connection is why Unterweger stayed at the Cecil hotel, it is an interesting detail regardless, and at the very least suggests a connection, even if only serving as inspiration to Unterweger. Just as a child brings a good report card home to show off and receive praise for their good work, so too did killer B.
2- It is also possible that the second set of remains were left by the same killer. LISK may have felt the previous dump site was too risky to continue using due to previous media attention and law enforcement investigation. All eyes of local people would be laser attuned to that location, and strange vehicles or persons would have been reported. The risk was simply no longer worth the reward. So, he simply chose a different location that served his needs. A secluded location to dump the remains of his victims. However, he needed attention. Any killer who leaves his victims so easily found as his initial victims (assuming same killer) craves notoriety and attention. To achieve this, he leaves a victim in the original dump site. This not only ties this new victim to his previous killings, but it makes LISK relevant again if only because of the location of the dump. Either way, he receives the attention he wants. It may also have been a taunt to police, a reminder that he was still hunting and killing, much like Dennis Rader sending notes to investigators detailing his dump sites.
3- It is also possible LISK was inspired by Joel Rifkin, another active killer in the same geographical area that operated in a similar manner as LISK.

These are simply theories that I had upon finishing the series. And Peter, if you happen to read this, I really liked your insights. I disagree with several of them, but you added a layer of creepy to the show that was very appreciated.

Anyways, rant over.

 

[Greenra219]

I’m a little late, but just watched TKS and joined Websleuths. My thought is regarding the murders in Cleveland. I watch See No Evil on the ID network and last night they played S6E17(The Girl on the Bus). I’m January 2017 Alianna DeFreeze was murdered by Christopher Whitaker. She was abducted from a main road and viciously beaten and killed in an abandoned home. They show security camera video of him hunting and abducting her. He was found guilty of her murder, but I believe it’s very plausible that he’s responsible for more. The way he hunts screams he’s done this before.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I’m a little late, but just watched TKS and joined Websleuths. My thought is regarding the murders in Cleveland. I watch See No Evil on the ID network and last night they played S6E17(The Girl on the Bus). I’m January 2017 Alianna DeFreeze was murdered by Christopher Whitaker. She was abducted from a main road and viciously beaten and killed in an abandoned home. They show security camera video of him hunting and abducting her. He was found guilty of her murder, but I believe it’s very plausible that he’s responsible for more. The way he hunts screams he’s done this before.

Welcome to WS Greenra219!

 

[absintheminded]

Does anyone know Frank Joseph Foti's cause of death?

 

[absintheminded]

I was watching the A&E series about the Long Island Serial Killer and heard about websleuths. While I watch cold case documentaries I find myself often googling, as I expect many of you do. During the "Joe Foti" segment of the show I did a quick google search of the name and found that not much was being said regarding it. As many of you probably did, I first thought it was a stretch to assume that police would release a name via wikipedia alluding to the killer.

I did however continue to search and came across the obituary of a Frank Joseph Foti who died November of 2017 at the age of 42 of West Babylon NY. (Link Below) I found it interesting that he loosely fits the profile of the killer. After continuing to search I found that not much else could be found about this man other than the address associated with him. 235 Arnold Avenue, West Babylon. He also has a facebook page that is still up with photos and other information.

Frank Joseph Foti Obituary - Babylon, NY
Frank J Foti, West Babylon - post your report about resident of 235 Arnold Ave
Frank Foti

Going through the family photos left on the obituary page, it shows that he was formerly a Marine. He had a wife and kids. There is a photo of him working on power lines and in the background there is a Time Warner truck. This could mean that he was a Time Warner technician at some point and would have been able to access other IP addresses and potentially post from them. Lastly, If you throw the address into google maps, you'll find his address sits just north of the LISK dumping ground. His death also could explain why he hasn't been caught.

This is all I have for you. This is also a stretch but perhaps there is something here.

And to die so relatively shortly after he was featured on the show. It almost seems too convenient. I can't seem to find a COD anywhere, but if he died at his own hand...that's some serious stuff. He very much fits the profile, though I teeter back and forth with every bit of information I gather.

From a profile standpoint, he probably got really angry over how the drama went at his work. It's not like he could just lash out with physical violence as a corrections officer, where his power was fairly limited to harrassment...but out in the wild...anything is possible. That would have been a good way to vent his frustrations and inadequacies.

Interesting too that Amber and he BOTH lived in West Babylon, NY.

 

[Huckebein]

I am uncertain where to place this thread, but this seemed like a good spot. This is going to be long, you have been forewarned.
I just finished "The Killing Season", and it was incredible. However, there were some things that I felt were not addressed that, to me, were in dire need of being at least introduced. The series mentions a second set of bodies that were discovered after the initial four, and that the prevailing thought was that the bodies were left by a second serial killer. The series also mentions that one of the bodies was found near a LISK dump site, or incredibly close to one. One of you fantastic folks named Peter was consulted, and he suggested that the act of leaving a new corpse at another killers dumpsite was possibly an act of aggression or territorial in nature. I disagree with that assumption.

Our society has an odd fascination with serial killers. This forum and others like it are a testament to that fact. Upon seeing this part of the program, my immediate thoughts went three possible ways
1) The second killer (B) was inspired by LISK and thus left a single corpse as an homage to him
2) The killer of the second set of victims was LISK himself
3) LISK was inspired by Joel Rifkin.

1- I dont not believe that the second killer was acting out of a sense of aggression or territorial greed when they deposited a victim near the original LISK site. Rather, I think it was an homage to LISK himself. The goal of the second killer was to show that LISK had inspired him, that he admired LISK, and the best way he could show LISK this admiration was to leave a message that only he would understand. He probably didnt know LISK personally, and thus this was the only way he could get this very specific message across. If he had simply mimicked LISKs dumping pattern or positioned his victims the same way, that could come across as copycat behavior, or perhaps even mocking. By tying the original LISK sites to his own killings, killer B shows that he admires LISK, and is offering proof of his own success as a killer. I do not believe this to be an act of aggression. Usually, such actions garner immediate and superior responses. This, as far as I am aware, did not happen in this case. No "killing war" erupted between these two killers. The most logical explanation for this is because this was not an act of aggression or escalation, but of admiration, and LISK knows that. This is similar to the case of Jack Unterweger, an Austrian serial killer. Unterweger was a journalist, and spent time in the United States and even stayed a the same hotel as Richard Ramirez, The Night Stalker, did. And while it has never been proven that this connection is why Unterweger stayed at the Cecil hotel, it is an interesting detail regardless, and at the very least suggests a connection, even if only serving as inspiration to Unterweger. Just as a child brings a good report card home to show off and receive praise for their good work, so too did killer B.
2- It is also possible that the second set of remains were left by the same killer. LISK may have felt the previous dump site was too risky to continue using due to previous media attention and law enforcement investigation. All eyes of local people would be laser attuned to that location, and strange vehicles or persons would have been reported. The risk was simply no longer worth the reward. So, he simply chose a different location that served his needs. A secluded location to dump the remains of his victims. However, he needed attention. Any killer who leaves his victims so easily found as his initial victims (assuming same killer) craves notoriety and attention. To achieve this, he leaves a victim in the original dump site. This not only ties this new victim to his previous killings, but it makes LISK relevant again if only because of the location of the dump. Either way, he receives the attention he wants. It may also have been a taunt to police, a reminder that he was still hunting and killing, much like Dennis Rader sending notes to investigators detailing his dump sites.
3- It is also possible LISK was inspired by Joel Rifkin, another active killer in the same geographical area that operated in a similar manner as LISK.

These are simply theories that I had upon finishing the series. And Peter, if you happen to read this, I really liked your insights. I disagree with several of them, but you added a layer of creepy to the show that was very appreciated.

Anyways, rant over.

I to just binged watched the DOC and thought it was amazing and sadly necessary giving the disturbing amount of females that go missing and are unreported or brushed aside in this country. I came across this case years ago when I picked up the book Lost Girls by Robert Kolker. If anyone here has not read it, I urge you too.

Since we are sharing thoughts I have some observations I thought I should share as well.

Does anyone have any idea when then Asian male victim was killed? Does his death predate the GB4? If so I think this makes an important marker in how LISK came to be. The idea that there are two killers never sat well with me as the chances of two serial killers using the same dump sight seems far fetched. I am away that the Freeway Killers were I believe three killers all together, but still the chance of this repeating itself seemed out of the question for me.

Instead I believe we are seeing a killer who is perfecting his craft, pending the timeline adds up. The first victims are dismembered and their body parts left in two separate locations, perhaps in a attempt to confuse authorities? However, the body parts in Manorville and Fireisland are discovered fairly fast as oppose those scattered around Gilgo beach area. The bodies do not strike me as something he wanted to be discovered as there was no show of display really.

This leads me to believe that over time, he transitioned from dismembering to simply stashing the whole bodies at Gilgo beach as he grew more comfortable in his methods and ability to hide without being noticed. Aside from the Asian male who was battered, the GB4 shared similar displays. Burlap sacks and cause of death from strangulation.

Also were they ever able to do any toxicology reports on any of the victims? I wonder because if I'm not mistaken, he knew alot of information about Melissa's younger sister and reportedly called up to 8 times. He either was a repeat client who got her to talk about herself over the course of their relationship or got the information from her while holding her hostage. I would imagine having someone in a drug induced state would make them an easier hostage. LSD was also used by the Government as a "truth" serum and there is a kernel of truth to it's ability to make people tell the truth. At the very least it gets them talking.

Another reason I bring up drugs is that there was a possible lure of drugs for these poor victims. If LISK was a repeated customer, aside from money drugs could have been used to lure these girls into a false sense of security before he struck.

Lastly as someone who has traveled on the LIRR quite a few times, I pose the theory that Maureen was abducted right out of Penn Station. During the late hours it is not uncommon to see intoxicated people heading home to Long Island after partying in the city. A girl who was "drunk" or in a drug induced state would not be entirely out of the picture here. For LISK to have gotten her into a car for the drive back to Long Island would take work as parking is not plentiful in the area. Perhaps it was a simple matter of a return client bumping into Maureen and offering a quick fix that made her most acceptable to his suggestions of coming "home" with him?

Just some thoughts from a newbie, looking forward to being part of this community and perhaps even helping in some way.