POI: Michael Pak #2

[WINDSOR]

I think it much more likely that Pak bailed on her after Coletti told him that he had called LE.

JMO

I am not absolutely sure, but I believe that after SG ran away from Coletti's home, and Coletti told MP he had called the Police, that MP continued to track after SG. Coletti made no meantion of the fact MP left Oak Island at that time. Because of the location of his home, it would be easy for Coletti to tell if MP left Oak Island at that time.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I am not absolutely sure, but I believe that after SG ran away from Coletti's home, and Coletti told MP he had called the Police, that MP continued to track after SG. Coletti made no meantion of the fact MP left Oak Island at that time. Because of the location of his home, it would be easy for Coletti to tell if MP left Oak Island at that time.

No, I agree with you. I think he made a cursory search for her. I just don't think he did much more than that. Pak comes off as a pretty self-serving guy, to me. No way he would risk sticking around for the cops to show up. JMO

 

[Sallyla]

What theory are referring to? That MP was the last to see SG alive, and left before LE arrived? These things are not theories they are true, and have been verified by LE.

Shannan being pulled into a truck, was SG's late mother Mari's allegation, based on the last conversation Mari had with SG. They are both dead now, and there is no way to verify the contents of this conversation. There is some logic to this statement as MP was supposedly driving an SUV that night, which some people would refer to as a truck. It could be reasonable to believe that MP who was chasing SG, caught up with SG that night, and pulled her into his vehicle, and then left Oak Beach.

It wasn’t the last convo with Shannan. It was the 9/11 call Mari had listened too. Shannan could only have no idea about the van the last time she and Mari spoke.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

I think it much more likely that Pak bailed on her after Coletti told him that he had called LE.

JMO

Ya , why hang around when the heat has been notified, makes sense.

 

[WINDSOR]

Ya , why hang around when the heat has been notified, makes sense.

MP was aware SG had called 911 while she was at Brewer's house. If MP wanted to leave before the police arrived, he could have left directly then. But he did not. He chased SG while she ran around Oak Beach. Why was he following her around Oak Beach? Because he wanted her in his SUV. Understand that MP did not want a confrontation with the Police, and neither did he want SG meeting with the Police. What is the obvious means to prevent SG from speaking to the Police. Think about it.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

MP was aware SG had called 911 while she was at Brewer's house. If MP wanted to leave before the police arrived, he could have left directly then. But he did not. He chased SG while she ran around Oak Beach. Why was he following her around Oak Beach? Because he wanted her in his SUV. Understand that MP did not want a confrontation with the Police, and neither did he want SG meeting with the Police. What is the obvious means to prevent SG from speaking to the Police. Think about it.

You definitely have a point about Pak knowing that Shannan herself had called police, Windsor. Although, there's a big difference between a hysterical, incoherent, possibly drugged sex worker calling police and an upstanding citizen of Oak Beach calling them. And honestly, I think part of the reason Pak returned to his vehicle without Shannan was because he intended to bail on the situation then, but saw Shannan flee Brewers and thought " okay, if I can get to her, we can maybe both get the hell out of here without incident. " It's all just guess work on our part, of course, but I'm curious if you think Pak actually did catch up with Shannan and force her into his SUV. If that happened, why not just drive Shannan home (which was the plan from the start anyway). What would be Pak's motive to murder her ? Just curious what your thoughts are.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

MP was aware SG had called 911 while she was at Brewer's house. If MP wanted to leave before the police arrived, he could have left directly then. But he did not. He chased SG while she ran around Oak Beach. Why was he following her around Oak Beach? Because he wanted her in his SUV. Understand that MP did not want a confrontation with the Police, and neither did he want SG meeting with the Police. What is the obvious means to prevent SG from speaking to the Police. Think about it.

That all makes sense but after SG was at Colletti's and ran from there, Colletti had a brief word with MP. Where did MP go after that? I'm going to go back and look at the sequence of events. Thank you, great post.

 

[WINDSOR]

You definitely have a point about Pak knowing that Shannan herself had called police, Windsor. Although, there's a big difference between a hysterical, incoherent, possibly drugged sex worker calling police and an upstanding citizen of Oak Beach calling them. And honestly, I think part of the reason Pak returned to his vehicle without Shannan was because he intended to bail on the situation then, but saw Shannan flee Brewers and thought " okay, if I can get to her, we can maybe both get the hell out of here without incident. " It's all just guess work on our part, of course, but I'm curious if you think Pak actually did catch up with Shannan and force her into his SUV. If that happened, why not just drive Shannan home (which was the plan from the start anyway). What would be Pak's motive to murder her ? Just curious what your thoughts are.

What would be MP's motive to murder her?
1) Anger
2) Frustration
3)Following orders of third party
4) A motive is not alway required for a murder.

I am not saying MP murdered SG, even though he might have. He might have caught her, pulled her into his SUV and then took her someplace.

Dr. Peter C. Hackett is involved based on his verified phone conversation with Shannan's mother Mari.
We also know PCH's home was close to where SG was running and MP was following. We also know that SG's remains were found behind PCH's home in the marsh.

One scenario....... MP catchs SG, and pulls her in to his SUV, he then drives SG a short distance to PCH's house and leaves her with the Doctor and MP leaves Oak Beach.

Things I would like to know.
a) Was there a prescription for drugs when JB and SG went to the CVS pharmacy, and who was the prescribing physician?

b) Did MP know or have some contact with PCH prior MP leaving Brewer's house to follow SG?

c) Did the SCPD check PCH's home for any foresic evidence of SG's prescence in the home.

d) John Ray launched a wrongful death suit on behalf of the Gilbert family against PCH, alledging that PCH had treated SG that night, and that 'treatment' lead to her death. We can assume that John Ray has proof that SG was treated by PCH.

In conclusion, it is my hunch that MP caught SG, probably physically subdued her, took her to PCH's house and SG died some time afterwards.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

What would be MP's motive to murder her?
1) Anger
2) Frustration
3)Following orders of third party
4) A motive is not alway required for a murder.

I am not saying MP murdered SG, even though he might have. He might have caught her, pulled her into his SUV and then took her someplace.

Dr. Peter C. Hackett is involved based on his verified phone conversation with Shannan's mother Mari.
We also know PCH's home was close to where SG was running and MP was following. We also know that SG's remains were found behind PCH's home in the marsh.

One scenario....... MP catchs SG, and pulls her in to his SUV, he then drives SG a short distance to PCH's house and leaves her with the Doctor and MP leaves Oak Beach.

Things I would like to know.
a) Was there a prescription for drugs when JB and SG went to the CVS pharmacy, and who was the prescribing physician?

b) Did MP know or have some contact with PCH prior MP leaving Brewer's house to follow SG?

c) Did the SCPD check PCH's home for any foresic evidence of SG's prescence in the home.

d) John Ray launched a wrongful death suit on behalf of the Gilbert family against PCH, alledging that PCH had treated SG that night, and that 'treatment' lead to her death. We can assume that John Ray has proof that SG was treated by PCH.

In conclusion, it is my hunch that MP caught SG, probably physically subdued her, took her to PCH's house and SG died some time afterwards.

According to Pak , Shannan and JB were only gone about 15 mintues. Not enough time to get to the closest CVS and back, imo. According to CPH , he allowed LE to search his home with cadaver dogs.

So...I dunno.

 

[Ktsleuth]

2 articles made me wonder about a few other residents at Oak Beach that nite: Tom Canning " a large retired landscaper" called to Barbara Brennan's home shortly after Shannon banged on her door..... whose own house boarders the marsh; and Joe Scalise "septuagenarian state park employee " and his odd son " he and his family have lived in Oak Beach for over four decades" (who both appear in the series The Killing Season and clearly have an interest in associating Hackett with Shannon's death).

Burlap , State Park employee, landscaping, long time residents of area, access to marsh dumping grounds

Inside the Bizarre, Unsolved Case of the Long Island Serial Killer
The Long Island Serial Killer — Unresolved

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Burlap , State Park employee, landscaping, long time residents of area, access to marsh dumping grounds

Inside the Bizarre, Unsolved Case of the Long Island Serial Killer
The Long Island Serial Killer — Unresolved

(Snipped for focus)
This is something I am surprised hasn't received more attention on these forums. Who better to take a serious look at than someone who works for The State Park Service ? Burlap is common in that field, no one would question a State Park vehicle stopped on the side of a road. And then there is the matter of a skull hidden in a thicket in a bird sanctuary near Jones Beach State Park.

Do I really think LISK works for The Park Service ? No idea. But I do think that's a more reasonable path for sleuthing than some random duck hunter, or a man who just happens to commit suicide, or a doctor who just happened to sell his house shortly after the bodies were discovered.

JMO

 

[WINDSOR]

(Snipped for focus)
This is something I am surprised hasn't received more attention on these forums. Who better to take a serious look at than someone who works for The State Park Service ? Burlap is common in that field, no one would question a State Park vehicle stopped on the side of a road. And then there is the matter of a skull hidden in a thicket in a bird sanctuary near Jones Beach State Park.

Do I really think LISK works for The Park Service ? No idea. But I do think that's a more reasonable path for sleuthing than some random duck hunter, or a man who just happens to commit suicide, or a doctor who just happened to sell his house shortly after the bodies were discovered.

JMO[/QUO
Years ago I heard that the SCPD had a tip to investigate this type of lead. There seemed to be some type of seasonality when the deaths occurred. The belief was that a number of government entities in the area hire seasonal workers of the type you described. Some of these workers may return to the south where some sleuthers believe similar crimes occurred. Hopefully the SCPD followed up diligently, but there has been no results announced.

 

[LikeAHunter]

I think we should keep in mind that without access to ALL of the 911 calls that night, we can’t take as fact any person’s accounting of the night Shannon Gilbert went missing.

Colletti, Hackett, and others changed their initial stories from that night. Pak, with his questionable character and criminal history, is someone whose story should automatically be scrutinized.

It’s been suggested by a few sources that MP may have been paid to deliver Shannon into the hands of people who intended to do her harm, or otherwise subject her to things she did not consent to.

Do we have proof of that? No. Would I rule it out? Definitely not.

Some things that may propel that theory: Pak and Brewer both report interacting with each other in a very casual manner. Friendly, rather than business-like. According to them, Brewer calmly asked Pak to come in and get Shannon. After arranging for her to come all the way out there, getting in the car and going somewhere with her, and agreeing to pay her extra for more time, at the point wouldn’t Brewer be annoyed that he wasn’t getting “the services” he planned for?

And Pak is supposed to be Shannon’s security. Shouldn’t Pak be extremely concerned when he finds out Shannon is not okay? Or annoyed that she is not doing what she needs to do to get paid, which means he won’t get paid?

In theory, if Pak is being paid by Shannon and no one else, then wouldn’t he be angry that he drove all the way out to one of the most desolate places on Long Island, sat in his car for a long time, chased and searched for her after dealing with the initial drama and stress, then made the long drive back home, and didn’t seem to sweat it that he went through all that and left without his “business partner” and without his payment? Does he seem to you like the kind of guy who would be okay with not being paid? (Unless he was paid. By someone other than Shannon.)

Plus, after all that, he had so little concern for Shannon (or his money) that he didn’t even bother to call Alex Diaz to let him know what happened?

MP’s account has never sat right with me. Neither has JB’s. There’s so much that simply defies common sense.

Personally, I’m not willing to rule either out as a POI in Shannon Gilbert’s death. I would love to know how thoroughly (or not thoroughly) he was interrogated by SCPD at the time.

 

[WINDSOR]

MP’s account has never sat right with me. Neither has JB’s. There’s so much that simply defies common sense. Rest assured every POI has lied, and has been proven to have lied, and will likely continue to lie to protect themselves

"I think we should keep in mind that without access to ALL of the 911 calls that night, we can’t take as fact any person’s accounting of the night Shannon Gilbert went missing." Why after 10 years does the SCPD not want the 911 tapes released to the public? Not to protect the innocent.

It’s been suggested by a few sources that MP may have been paid to deliver Shannon into the hands of people who intended to do her harm, or otherwise subject her to things she did not consent to. Do we have proof of that? No. Would I rule it out? Definitely not. The proof is the fact JB made arrangements with MP directly, SG was not part of the arrangement. SG only knew what MP told her about going to Oak Beach. SG never had previously been so far away from her home base. SG had no idea where MP had taken her.

In theory, if Pak is being paid by Shannon and no one else, then wouldn’t he be angry that he drove all the way out to one of the most desolate places on Long Island, sat in his car for a long time, chased and searched for her after dealing with the initial drama and stress, then made the long drive back home, and didn’t seem to sweat it that he went through all that and left without his “business partner” and without his payment? Does he seem to you like the kind of guy who would be okay with not being paid? (Unless he was paid. By someone other than Shannon.) I believe MP got his money from SG when he dragged her into his SUV, after he caught SG when she was running from Coletti's house.

 

[Disco1]

Why doesn’t anyone talk about the “drifter” who was also at the house with JB that night?

 

[516witchdoctors]

As someone who drove Shannon around I will tell you the story with MP never sat right with me, at all. It is very unlike her personality to act that way nor do I believe she had a ‘psychotic episode’. Bipolar, yes but from experience no different than any other woman. She rarely used drugs either although she would occasionally do cocaine with a client or smoke marijuana but more in leisure with her boyfriend and kept it professional. Never would I imagine she wouldn’t get in my car or come to me for protection if feeling in danger to get away or do something in her defense.

MP did work for a short time I believe for one of the companies I worked for and he had connections with Asian women in the sex trade and how he got his foot in. Particularly around the Flushing, Astoria and Bayside area.
Everyone that has spoken to him feels he has rehearsed his story and none of it makes sense.

As a native to Long Island, it is quite apparent his timing and frame of everything is a lie and something tells me he was at JB home before and knew him. Even when Diaz states they went to a movie that night and got home late and Shannon said Pak had a client for them and she was going to work.

However MP story was he picked up Shannon then they waited for a call? Doubtful.
Pak must have gotten a call from JB or someone else connected. The initial date was set for 2 hours which is easily $600, then supposedly it was extended by JB to 4 hours which she probably would have cut him a deal at grand. This is if only JB was there and this wasn’t a party. So much is unknown.
My experience with Oak Beach although not JB home but another is that they had parties there, never did I drive a woman there for one John. That could be the reason this tape despite SCPD saying it was an ‘accidental death’ still a decade later and them being ordered to release it to the public still hasn’t. Even when John Ray got the tape they didn’t do what they were supposed to with a full audiologist forensic analysis.

I’ve often questioned is JB and whomever else was at his home paid MP off or promised him something, why would he side with the John in not revealing truth and not the client who he works for? As a driver of girls in my past and someone that worked with Shannon you get close with them and develop a friendship. I recall while she was staying at the Marriott in Uniondale and taking her to Roosevelt Field mall or a restaurant when she had down time or playing racquetball at the hotel where she kicked my . Never could I imagine siding with a John and would want justice for the girl in a tragic situation. Something never sat right with me there.

Part of me always wonders did he get her back in his car and get out of the area? Pak said he looked for her for an hour but didn’t, sounds more like 10 mins. He was gone before the police arrived which was less than an hour. Did something happen to Shannon elsewhere and her disposed at a later time? That isn’t spoken about enough. They searched the area heavily and never found her? Really? She was a lot easier to find then the other bodies, if you know the area you know exactly what I mean.
Hackett never got that footage and let it record over that week and John Ray and other reports state that her belongings when found over a year later were well preserved. Her cell phone even turned on? Wtf!!! I’m familiar with that area very well, no chance in hell. Where is her jacket? SCPD said it was lost evidence. Bul*... what DNA could it provide?

There is no doubt Hackett is more involved but this isn’t his thread and I will keep it to MP.

 

[ListeningAndWatching]

As someone who drove Shannon around I will tell you the story with MP never sat right with me, at all. It is very unlike her personality to act that way nor do I believe she had a ‘psychotic episode’. Bipolar, yes but from experience no different than any other woman. She rarely used drugs either although she would occasionally do cocaine with a client or smoke marijuana but more in leisure with her boyfriend and kept it professional. Never would I imagine she wouldn’t get in my car or come to me for protection if feeling in danger to get away or do something in her defense.

MP did work for a short time I believe for one of the companies I worked for and he had connections with Asian women in the sex trade and how he got his foot in. Particularly around the Flushing, Astoria and Bayside area.
Everyone that has spoken to him feels he has rehearsed his story and none of it makes sense.

As a native to Long Island, it is quite apparent his timing and frame of everything is a lie and something tells me he was at JB home before and knew him. Even when Diaz states they went to a movie that night and got home late and Shannon said Pak had a client for them and she was going to work.

However MP story was he picked up Shannon then they waited for a call? Doubtful.
Pak must have gotten a call from JB or someone else connected. My experience with Oak Beach although not JB home but another is that they had parties there, never did I drive a woman there for one John. That could be the reason this tape despite SCPD saying it was an ‘accidental death’ still a decade later and them being ordered to release it to the public still hasn’t. Even when John Ray got the tape they didn’t do what they were supposed to with a full audiologist forensic analysis.

I’ve often questioned is JB and whomever else was at his home paid MP off or promised him something, why would he side with the John in not revealing truth and not the client who he works for? As a driver of girls in my past and someone that worked with Shannon you get close with them and develop a friendship. I recall while she was staying at the Marriott in Uniondale and taking her to Roosevelt Field mall or a restaurant when she had down time or playing racquetball at the hotel where she kicked my . Never could I imagine siding with a John and would want justice for the girl in a tragic situation. Something never sat right with me there.

Part of me always wonders did he get her back in his car and get out of the area? Pak said he looked for her for an hour but didn’t, sounds more like 10 mins. He was gone before the police arrived which was less than an hour. Did something happen to Shannon elsewhere and her disposed at a later time? That isn’t spoken about enough. They searched the area heavily and never found her? Really? She was a lot easier to find then the other bodies, if you know the area you know exactly what I mean.
Hackett never got that footage and let it record over that week and John Ray and other reports state that her belongings when found over a year later were well preserved. Her cell phone even turned on? Wtf!!! I’m familiar with that area very well, no chance in hell. Where is her jacket? SCPD said it was lost evidence. Bul*****... what DNA could it provide?

There is no doubt Hackett is more involved but this isn’t his thread and I will keep it to MP.

So much of this is spot-on.

 

[WINDSOR]

As someone who drove Shannon around I will tell you the story with MP never sat right with me, at all. It is very unlike her personality to act that way nor do I believe she had a ‘psychotic episode’. Bipolar, yes but from experience no different than any other woman. She rarely used drugs either although she would occasionally do cocaine with a client or smoke marijuana but more in leisure with her boyfriend and kept it professional. Never would I imagine she wouldn’t get in my car or come to me for protection if feeling in danger to get away or do something in her defense.

MP did work for a short time I believe for one of the companies I worked for and he had connections with Asian women in the sex trade and how he got his foot in. Particularly around the Flushing, Astoria and Bayside area.
Everyone that has spoken to him feels he has rehearsed his story and none of it makes sense.

As a native to Long Island, it is quite apparent his timing and frame of everything is a lie and something tells me he was at JB home before and knew him. Even when Diaz states they went to a movie that night and got home late and Shannon said Pak had a client for them and she was going to work.

However MP story was he picked up Shannon then they waited for a call? Doubtful.
Pak must have gotten a call from JB or someone else connected. The initial date was set for 2 hours which is easily $600, then supposedly it was extended by JB to 4 hours which she probably would have cut him a deal at grand. This is if only JB was there and this wasn’t a party. So much is unknown.
My experience with Oak Beach although not JB home but another is that they had parties there, never did I drive a woman there for one John. That could be the reason this tape despite SCPD saying it was an ‘accidental death’ still a decade later and them being ordered to release it to the public still hasn’t. Even when John Ray got the tape they didn’t do what they were supposed to with a full audiologist forensic analysis.

I’ve often questioned is JB and whomever else was at his home paid MP off or promised him something, why would he side with the John in not revealing truth and not the client who he works for? As a driver of girls in my past and someone that worked with Shannon you get close with them and develop a friendship. I recall while she was staying at the Marriott in Uniondale and taking her to Roosevelt Field mall or a restaurant when she had down time or playing racquetball at the hotel where she kicked my . Never could I imagine siding with a John and would want justice for the girl in a tragic situation. Something never sat right with me there.

Part of me always wonders did he get her back in his car and get out of the area? Pak said he looked for her for an hour but didn’t, sounds more like 10 mins. He was gone before the police arrived which was less than an hour. Did something happen to Shannon elsewhere and her disposed at a later time? That isn’t spoken about enough. They searched the area heavily and never found her? Really? She was a lot easier to find then the other bodies, if you know the area you know exactly what I mean.
Hackett never got that footage and let it record over that week and John Ray and other reports state that her belongings when found over a year later were well preserved. Her cell phone even turned on? Wtf!!! I’m familiar with that area very well, no chance in hell. Where is her jacket? SCPD said it was lost evidence. Bul*****... what DNA could it provide?

There is no doubt Hackett is more involved but this isn’t his thread and I will keep it to MP.

516, thank you for your insight.

 

[Aquariesque]

Why doesn’t anyone talk about the “drifter” who was also at the house with JB that night?

Because it's been confirmed that The Drifter was not present at JB's the night/early morning Shannan was there.

 

[WINDSOR]

Why doesn’t anyone talk about the “drifter” who was also at the house with JB that night?

What is the drifter going to say, and to whom? He dare not incriminate Brewer or Pak. At this point all he would say is " I was not there; I don't know anything ; and I don't remember anything.