POI: Michael Pak

[Peter Brendt]

Peter, you are right, if LE arrived at the gate house and GC let them in at 5:32AM, no way could have MP abducted SG.


However in Newsday it was written .....Coletti said an officer from the
police marine unit arrived about 30 minutes after he called 911.

Assuming GC is telling the truth; for the police to arrive when you say they did GC's 911 call would have to taken place around 5:00am, but as you state that is not possible because GC had not met SG at that time.

Again we have no exact time of events. It is useless to argue what or what could not have taken place unless the times are exact.

If LE arrived at Oak Beach at 5:32am, no way could MP abduct SG.
If LE arrived at Oak beach at 6:07am, MP could have abducted SG

And we know because GC said he waited about a half an hour for LE, there is no way LE could have arrived at 5:32am.

So Peter are you saying that GC called 911 about 5:02 am, (before he met SG), went directly to the gate house, waited about a half an hour and let LE in at 5:32am? I do not think so.

Nice, and non-cynical, and I apologise if in the past I have not been.

WINDSOR

MOO

Nope, I'm saying GC called after 5:14 (the end of SG's call. JR said, she can be heard on the tape running, the protocol of dispatch should be the more accurate time than GC's estimation).
There should be at least three protocol books that would all to be forged. The one of the officer, dispatch and the one of the shift leader at dispatch (remember, there was discussion about pinging her cell because SG couldn't say where she was).
So ... are you saying Dormer or officers forged all those protocol books? It means you accuse them of committing a serious crime. Are you? Because if not, we have to assume, those times are the correct ones.

 

[fred&edna]

Nope, I'm saying GC called after 5:14 (the end of SG's call. JR said, she can be heard on the tape running, the protocol of dispatch should be the more accurate time than GC's estimation).
There should be at least three protocol books that would all to be forged. The one of the officer, dispatch and the one of the shift leader at dispatch (remember, there was discussion about pinging her cell because SG couldn't say where she was).
So ... are you saying Dormer or officers forged all those protocol books? It means you accuse them of committing a serious crime. Are you? Because if not, we have to assume, those times are the correct ones.

Uhhh... where are these 3 protocol books? I haven't seen them. What times do they state?

 

[Just K]

Wouldn't it be interesting to know what MP has been up to for the past two years? Wonder if he's had a wake up call...found some other type of work. Wonder if he's still hanging with his Chihuahuas? Rumour had it that he sold them If so, why? It's odd that he would let them run willy nilly about his apartment and dress them up and make untold numbers of videos of them and then give them up just months later. Anyone know what MP is up to and where he is now?

 

[Peter Brendt]

Uhhh... where are these 3 protocol books? I haven't seen them. What times do they state?

They should be in the possession of Suffolk County police. It is standard procedure to have those protocol "books" either in written for or electronic form. Dormers and later Spota's timelines reference to them. You can get them probably via a FOI-request. And the times there, according to Dormer were from one of those books. I can't find any links alive anymore, but you may remember, there was short after the GB4 were found this big thing about how late police was at OB and Dormer referred to the records of dispatch. You can maybe find something in the old threads, I have not much time to search through two and something years ago.

 

[Redbird]

One of GC's first account of events was that he didn't let her in, just called 911. I tend to think that was the true account because it would explain why she didn't stay at his house.

While looking for links I came across this link http://voices.yahoo.com/eight-bodies-found-gilgo-but-where-shannan-gilbert-8255555.html?cat=8

that says GC did not let SG in. It gives a Newsday video as a source of information. Since I don't have a subscription, I can't open it.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Another question I have always had is where was SG's cell phone. GC describes what she was wearing and does not mention a purse. I think he was asked and said she did not have a purse (I will have to look this up) so did she have pockets in her jacket, pants? We know she had a cell phone. Why doesn't SG mention it?

I've wondered the same thing, Redbird. According to family members, on the 911 tape Shannan can be heard being pulled into a vehicle (how you can tell this over the phone, I couldn't say). Assuming that is true, though, Shannan had to have been been pulled into a vehicle BEFORE she ran to Coletti's (and broke free), or she had to have still been on the phone to 911 after she left Coletti's. But, of course, that doesn't make sense, because why the hell would Coletti call 911 if Shannan was already on her phone to them? :waitasec:

 

[Justiceforever]

Replace the water with bourbon. And ask Justice Forever to keep your glass filled.

For us Bourbon...

for our proud mommy to be..

 

[Mountain_Kat]

For us Bourbon...

for our proud mommy to be..
View attachment 30181

We could get her a punching bag. I think the baby would appreciate the excercise.

 

[WINDSOR]

Nope, I'm saying GC called after 5:14 (the end of SG's call. JR said, she can be heard on the tape running, the protocol of dispatch should be the more accurate time than GC's estimation).
There should be at least three protocol books that would all to be forged. The one of the officer, dispatch and the one of the shift leader at dispatch (remember, there was discussion about pinging her cell because SG couldn't say where she was).
So ... are you saying Dormer or officers forged all those protocol books? It means you accuse them of committing a serious crime. Are you? Because if not, we have to assume, those times are the correct ones.

So you say GC called after 5:14am and the LE arrived at 5:32am.

So what Gus said about waiting around 30 minutes was wrong in your opinion,

You also believe SCPD could disptch a Marine officer to Oak Beach in 16 minutes or less. Wow. Since the distance to be travelled is over 21 miles, there is no way 911 dispatch, could have got an officer moving, (marine officers are not constantly patrolling in their cruisers at 5:00am) at 5:14am.

Once the officer got the details and info from dispatch, he would have to get in his car (time now probably 5:20am) then average well over 90mph in the dark, on some urban roads, some expressway over 21 miles to arrive in 12 minutes to the gate house. at 5:32am to match the protocol book.

Firstly there is no protocol book that says the officer arrived at 5:32am, because it is a physical impossibility. The 5:32am, time was invented by the retired SCPD detective who wrote a letter to a newspaer. The letter is posted on this site.

Again Peter you are correct if GC lied about waiting 30 minutes for LE, and if the marine officer averaged over 90mph on his trip to Oak Beach.

To put that speed in perspective, when NASCAR races at the Infineon road course they barely average 82mph over the course of the race. With the best drivers and all out race cars with 850 horspower engines. The single lap record is 99mph. If this marine officer covered this distance in a regular police car, with street tires, under 400 horsepower and regular brakes, he should drive NASCAR, or at least DTM.

BTW I did not ever mention protocol books in my original post, so I did not accuse anybody altering of anything. Now if you have a copy of that protocol book showing the 5:32am time, please share it with us. If you are basing the 5:32am time on the officers letter, say so.



MOO

 

[Theforeigner]

Another question I have always had is where was SG's cell phone. GC describes what she was wearing and does not mention a purse. I think he was asked and said she did not have a purse (I will have to look this up) so did she have pockets in her jacket, pants? We know she had a cell phone. Why doesn't SG mention it?

The police have Shannan Gilbert's cellphone.
And I´m 99% sure I read a newsreport, around the time it was found, that said that the state the cellphone was in made the police belive they would probably be able to pull information from it, I´v tried to find that newsreport but no sucess, if I find it I will post a link and quote.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/13/long-island-remains-found-shannan-gilbert

Published Tuesday 13 December 2011

Quote:

Gilbert was last seen meeting a client for sex in Oak Beach. Last week, authorities renewed the search after finding some of her personal belongings, including her cellphone, jeans, shoes and pocketbook with ID, in a marshy wetland adjacent to Oak Beach.


here is another newsreport listing what was found belived to Shannan's:

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilgo-1-year-later-pain-remains-for-victims-kin-1.3380823
Originally published: December 10, 2011

Quote:
Then, last week, police reopened the search for Shannan Gilbert, a 24-year-old sex worker whose disappearance in May 2010 sparked the hunt that led to the discovery of remains at Gilgo Beach. They located her pocketbook and ID, along with jeans, a cellphone, ballet-style shoes and lip gloss believed to be hers

 

[Justiceforever]

They found her ballet shoes? I thought she changed into boots!

 

[fred&edna]

They should be in the possession of Suffolk County police. It is standard procedure to have those protocol "books" either in written for or electronic form. Dormers and later Spota's timelines reference to them. You can get them probably via a FOI-request. And the times there, according to Dormer were from one of those books. I can't find any links alive anymore, but you may remember, there was short after the GB4 were found this big thing about how late police was at OB and Dormer referred to the records of dispatch. You can maybe find something in the old threads, I have not much time to search through two and something years ago.

I see, but nope... I can't find 'em.

 

[Just K]

They found her ballet shoes? I thought she changed into boots!

Exactly, Pak said she changed into the boots when she got into his SUV.

Considering she likely left the ballet flats in the SUV (why carry them into Brewers?) then that begs TWO QUESTIONS. How did they get from MP's SUV and into the marsh? And, wouldn't it be even harder to get out of the tight fitting jeans when she was wearing BOOTS!!!

Now, the third Question: Where are the freakin' boots...were they still on her leg bones?

Really, that would be absurd. Taking the tight jeans off but not the BOOTS.

Here is the link to Michael Pak saying she changed into the boots.
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214
"...Gilbert, then 23 and working as a prostitute, police say, had come from Jersey City to set up appointments with men responding to her Craigslist ad.

At the corner of 32nd Street and 6th Avenue, she pulled out her cellphone and called her driver, Michael Pak, he said. It was 10:02 p.m.

Her mood was calm, Pak would later recall. "She sounded normal," he said. "Everything was OK. Inside Pak's SUV, Gilbert changed into dark leather boots and posted an ad on Craigslist, he said. By midnight, she was at her first appointment, a man in a nearby apartment, Pak said.

Over the next six hours, Gilbert's work would unexpectedly take her from the city to a secluded community on Long Island's South Shore, and by early the next morning, she had vanished..."

 

[Just K]

And this about her 911 call:
"Suffolk police have not released the 911 tape, but Suffolk Deputy Insp. Gerard McCarthy, commanding officer of the Special Services Bureau, said a dispatcher could hear a frantic woman and voices in the background trying to soothe her."
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214

 

[Peter Brendt]

While looking for links I came across this link http://voices.yahoo.com/eight-bodies-found-gilgo-but-where-shannan-gilbert-8255555.html?cat=8

that says GC did not let SG in. It gives a Newsday video as a source of information. Since I don't have a subscription, I can't open it.

From a mere behavioral point of view, I never really bought the later story, he offered to let her in or actually let her in. Who would, at 5 am, let a disheveled women with obvious symptoms of some bad drug trip let in? But later, the super-righteous always told the world, they would have let her in and so on, so he probably couldn't resist to "expand" the story a little. There are two things to learn from that:

1.) There is always someone who would claim to be such a better person than you and regardless how much you do right, it will never be enough for that/those person(s)

2.) Opposite to wine, information will not get better over time.

 

[Theforeigner]

Exactly, Pak said she changed into the boots when she got into his SUV.

Considering she likely left the ballet flats in the SUV (why carry them into Brewers?) then that begs TWO QUESTIONS. How did they get from MP's SUV and into the marsh? And, wouldn't it be even harder to get out of the tight fitting jeans when she was wearing BOOTS!!!

Now, the third Question: Where are the freakin' boots...were they still on her leg bones?

Really, that would be absurd. Taking the tight jeans off but not the BOOTS.

Here is the link to Michael Pak saying she changed into the boots.
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214
"...Gilbert, then 23 and working as a prostitute, police say, had come from Jersey City to set up appointments with men responding to her Craigslist ad.

At the corner of 32nd Street and 6th Avenue, she pulled out her cellphone and called her driver, Michael Pak, he said. It was 10:02 p.m.

Her mood was calm, Pak would later recall. "She sounded normal," he said. "Everything was OK. Inside Pak's SUV, Gilbert changed into dark leather boots and posted an ad on Craigslist, he said. By midnight, she was at her first appointment, a man in a nearby apartment, Pak said.


Over the next six hours, Gilbert's work would unexpectedly take her from the city to a secluded community on Long Island's South Shore, and by early the next morning, she had vanished..."

Right! And I wonder if GC ever said anything about what she was wearing on her feet?

 

[Peter Brendt]

I've wondered the same thing, Redbird. According to family members, on the 911 tape Shannan can be heard being pulled into a vehicle (how you can tell this over the phone, I couldn't say). Assuming that is true, though, Shannan had to have been been pulled into a vehicle BEFORE she ran to Coletti's (and broke free), or she had to have still been on the phone to 911 after she left Coletti's. But, of course, that doesn't make sense, because why the hell would Coletti call 911 if Shannan was already on her phone to them? :waitasec:

The weird thing is, MG and JR both have only read a transcript (see 48 Hours). But while JR only said, it can be heard at the end of the call, she is running (her breath), month and month later, MG comes up with the story of that "pulled in a truck". I haven't seen a link that she actually said that, I have though found a lot of links, on another board someone said, she said.
And by all means, it doesn't make any sense. It would have been right in front of JB's house (if what JR said in 48 Hours is true ... btw, I think, I found out, where to buy those terrible faked fatigues). So ... JB's easiest way to clean himself up by saying MP did it. Only problem: GC and BB saw her and there were footprints allegedly also made by her (this Justin something or the other guy, forgot his name).
Second option: She was on the phone till after 5:22 when BB called ... now, that makes even less sense, she was in the meantime also at Coletti's place. So impossible either.
Honestly, we need a good time warp theory to make that happen.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Exactly, Pak said she changed into the boots when she got into his SUV.

Considering she likely left the ballet flats in the SUV (why carry them into Brewers?) then that begs TWO QUESTIONS. How did they get from MP's SUV and into the marsh? And, wouldn't it be even harder to get out of the tight fitting jeans when she was wearing BOOTS!!!

Now, the third Question: Where are the freakin' boots...were they still on her leg bones?

Really, that would be absurd. Taking the tight jeans off but not the BOOTS.

Here is the link to Michael Pak saying she changed into the boots.
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214
"...Gilbert, then 23 and working as a prostitute, police say, had come from Jersey City to set up appointments with men responding to her Craigslist ad.

At the corner of 32nd Street and 6th Avenue, she pulled out her cellphone and called her driver, Michael Pak, he said. It was 10:02 p.m.

Her mood was calm, Pak would later recall. "She sounded normal," he said. "Everything was OK. Inside Pak's SUV, Gilbert changed into dark leather boots and posted an ad on Craigslist, he said. By midnight, she was at her first appointment, a man in a nearby apartment, Pak said.

Over the next six hours, Gilbert's work would unexpectedly take her from the city to a secluded community on Long Island's South Shore, and by early the next morning, she had vanished..."

She changed into boots ... but those ballet slippers are not the fold-able kind, some women just put in their purses? Do we know what kind of purse she had in the first place?

 

[Peter Brendt]

And this about her 911 call:
"Suffolk police have not released the 911 tape, but Suffolk Deputy Insp. Gerard McCarthy, commanding officer of the Special Services Bureau, said a dispatcher could hear a frantic woman and voices in the background trying to soothe her."
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214

That is consistent with what JB said, what MP said and later what JR said in 48 Hours. Nobody denied that they tried to calm her down and she suddenly ran off ... I think, that is how the chaos started to become critical in the first place.

 

[Justiceforever]

Where are her boots? And HOW did her ballet shoes end up in the marsh after changing OUT of them in MPs SUV?