POI: Michael Pak

[Mountain_Kat]

Redbird, this is awesome info. Thank you. It appears that LE did a reasonable job in response. (Kudo's for the responding officer for requesting additional resources)

This info supports my theory, that nobody saw SG in the marsh (because she was not in the marsh) Aviation section (helicopter?) flew over the marsh the same day and did not see her body or any of her clothing.

Remember from an aviation point of view it was a clear warn day, when they were looking for SG.

MOO

In addition to that, wasn't there another aerial search done a month or so before her remains were found, and that too turned up nothing?

How did LE come to discover her clothes and pocketbook? I don't think I've ever heard what prompted that search of the marsh.

 

[Redbird]

There was the air search they did with high tech equipment when they found the first four bodies. Remember how they found "90 areas of interest." Supposedly they found SG's possessions when they were checking out one of those areas. I don't believe it. I think they were tipped off but will not reveal that information.

 

[WINDSOR]

Peter Brendt, says it is highly unlikely that SG's skeleton was placed in the marsh. Much more likely the body was intact when she ended up there. I do not disagree with that thought.

SG could have wandered into the marsh and died that May 1, 2010, however after a relatively thorough search by law enforcement that day, (Officer, k-9 and aviation) SG was not spotted.

There is no evidence that SG entered the marsh that day, nobody saw her, even when LE was looking for her, they could not find her or her clothes.

If she was not in the swamp alive, SG could not have died of natural causes in the swamp. The clothes and her remains, founds months later are no proof that SG was walking in the marsh on May1, 2010.

If she was not in the marsh, was she in MP's vehicle. Could have MP left Oak Beach without GC seeing him leave? That is the missing piece of this puzzle.

BTW, when MP returned on May 3rd with AD to look for SG, did he look in the marsh, or did he also know she was not there?

MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

Can somebody check with GC and see if he feels MP could have left Oak Beach, without being seen leaving by GC.

Thanks

 

[Just K]

@deedee, there is a thread of aerials and two years ago we were all posting the google and Bing images of the dry marsh/field/bramble. It is not and was not a swamp.

Seaslug posted some of the best aerial shots of that area.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Yes what you say is true, but he did return to Oak Beach, when he exposed himself to the questions of LE. If he left to avoid questioning of LE why did he then return to be questioned? See my point, he had to leave to hide something(SG?)

I agree with you about JB paying for services of SG. However if SG was refusing to give MP his share, you can understand MP's anger.

I think MP got all the money in the end, IIRC SG's wallet was empty when found.

MOO

Lets stretch probabilities here to the extreme, lets assume for the sake of the argument, MP could have found SG somewhere in OB or even outside. But then, he was angry and killed her in an angry rush? With a guy like MP and that kind of story, I would expect broken bones, maybe blunt force trauma on the remains then. Physical force. Nothing of that on the remains ... so, even if I stretch the probabilities, I end up with MP is the POI

- with no time window
- no opportunity
- no motive (well, in fact, he had a motive to hold her alive)
- not the patience nor the drive to strangle someone he is angry at.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter Brendt, says it is highly unlikely that SG's skeleton was placed in the marsh. Much more likely the body was intact when she ended up there. I do not disagree with that thought.

SG could have wandered into the marsh and died that May 1, 2010, however after a relatively thorough search by law enforcement that day, (Officer, k-9 and aviation) SG was not spotted.

There is no evidence that SG entered the marsh that day, nobody saw her, even when LE was looking for her, they could not find her or her clothes.

If she was not in the swamp alive, SG could not have died of natural causes in the swamp. The clothes and her remains, founds months later are no proof that SG was walking in the marsh on May1, 2010.

If she was not in the marsh, was she in MP's vehicle. Could have MP left Oak Beach without GC seeing him leave? That is the missing piece of this puzzle.

BTW, when MP returned on May 3rd with AD to look for SG, did he look in the marsh, or did he also know she was not there?

MOO

The big searches were later, after the first of the GB4 was found. December 2010. And first in the area of the beach. There was no aerial search for SG before December of 2010.

 

[CriminalMinds]

Who deals drugs in Oak Beach?

a mid-20's kid, friends with another kid or two of the same age bracket---I'd place my chips on that kid being where SG/JB went IF(and seems most likely) they stayed INSIDE during that "15-minute trip" that we keep hearing about

 

[WINDSOR]

Lets stretch probabilities here to the extreme, lets assume for the sake of the argument, MP could have found SG somewhere in OB or even outside. But then, he was angry and killed her in an angry rush? With a guy like MP and that kind of story, I would expect broken bones, maybe blunt force trauma on the remains then. Physical force. Nothing of that on the remains ... so, even if I stretch the probabilities, I end up with MP is the POI

- with no time window
- no opportunity
- no motive (well, in fact, he had a motive to hold her alive)
- not the patience nor the drive to strangle someone he is angry at.

Peter, thank you for stretching possibilities. MP may have a time window, that is what I am trying to prove, and the opportunity is directly connected to the time window. If we can firmly establish the time of BB's 911 call we will have an exact time window.

Motive, has been established, SG was not paying him his normal fee, plus he was angry because she was calling 911.

Regarding the patience nor the drive to strangle someone. I believe all human beings have that potential in the right conditions. We do not know what MP's drug level was which could have affected his normal self control.

I myself would have expected broken bones or other signs of blunt force tramua. Remember that SG had previous signs of trauma to her face. Would the ME be able to distinguish a newer blow to the skull from an older pre-existing non-fatal blow? Even if blunt force and strangulation were not used, there are other methods such as drug over-dose, knife (sometimes chips bones, but not always) or ligature.

Again I will admit we do not have the proof, and chances are there will never be enough for criminal charges, but the potential and probabilities are coming together.

MOO

 

[fred&edna]

Lets stretch probabilities here to the extreme, lets assume for the sake of the argument, MP could have found SG somewhere in OB or even outside. But then, he was angry and killed her in an angry rush? With a guy like MP and that kind of story, I would expect broken bones, maybe blunt force trauma on the remains then. Physical force. Nothing of that on the remains ... so, even if I stretch the probabilities, I end up with MP is the POI

- with no time window
- no opportunity
- no motive (well, in fact, he had a motive to hold her alive)
- not the patience nor the drive to strangle someone he is angry at.

Maybe he was trying to keep her quiet... he used force that stopped her from breathing. According to an interview with MP the police asked him if he found her and suggested maybe her death was accidental, and of course he told them "no". So, it would appear even LE thought this (or something like this) might be a possibility.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

The big searches were later, after the first of the GB4 was found. December 2010. And first in the area of the beach. There was no aerial search for SG before December of 2010.

pb
that ariel search in dec. 2010 - specifically flew over THAT marsh...where she was eventuallly found? to look for her?

who was flying the plane?
scpd?
state police?
fbi?
do you even know?

that is very interesting news.
thank you.

 

[CriminalMinds]

Maybe he was trying to keep her quiet... he used force that stopped her from breathing. According to an interview with MP the police asked him if he found her and suggested maybe her death was accidental, and of course he told them "no". So, it would appear even LE thought this (or something like this) might be a possibility.

IF he killed her, he would have taken the body with him and dumped her elsewhere, and then claimed to not have heard from her after dropping her off at home from their trip to Oak Beach...? he knew he was the last one seen pursuing her, so why leave the body there and risk being suspect #1...?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

IF he killed her, he would have taken the body with him and dumped her elsewhere, and then claimed to not have heard from her after dropping her off at home from their trip to Oak Beach...? he knew he was the last one seen pursuing her, so why leave the body there and risk being suspect #1...?

Not only that, but how does he get her body into that marsh, without being seen, while LE is actively searching for her? Or does he drive off with her body in this SUV, wait for the place to die down, and then bring her body back to dump it in the marsh?

Highly doubtful, imo. Unless, of course, he's just plain crazy.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Not only that, but how does he get her body into that marsh, without being seen, while LE is actively searching for her? Or does he drive off with her body in this SUV, wait for the place to die down, and then bring her body back to dump it in the marsh?

Highly doubtful, imo. Unless, of course, he's just plain crazy.

Lets think that one further ... if someone (an otherwise mentally normal person) kills someone, he has always the problem of getting rid of a body. The methods vary, depending how brutal someone is. Some people just can't cut bodies to pieces, others can. But what all single, by accident, by greed or what explanations else murderers want, is to get rid of the body in a way that makes it impossible to find it and if, that makes it impossible to identify the victim. Nothing of this apples to SG. She was found laying in a marsh. The next ocean is not that far away, why not sink her there? Haarlem River, worked already for Rifkin ... there are literally thousands of places around. Why not dispose her more careful if it was murder?

 

[fred&edna]

IF he killed her, he would have taken the body with him and dumped her elsewhere, and then claimed to not have heard from her after dropping her off at home from their trip to Oak Beach...? he knew he was the last one seen pursuing her, so why leave the body there and risk being suspect #1...?

I very much agree that taking her with him would be much more plausible. But, because I don't feel certain, I continue to mull the possibilities. I'm not sure LE would waste their own time asking him if her death was accidental (at his hands) if they didn't consider it a possibility.

 

[Peter Brendt]

pb
that ariel search in dec. 2010 - specifically flew over THAT marsh...where she was eventuallly found? to look for her?

who was flying the plane?
scpd?
state police?
fbi?
do you even know?

that is very interesting news.
thank you.

The helicopter in the December footage looked very FBI to me. But then, aerial search isn't the measure of all things. If you have just a few dirty bones in the middle of a lot more dirt, it's hard to spot them.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I very much agree that taking her with him would be much more plausible. But, because I don't feel certain, I continue to mull the possibilities. I'm not sure LE would waste their own time asking him if her death was accidental (at his hands) if they didn't consider it a possibility.

Or maybe they weren't certain and thus just mulled the possibilities ...

 

[deedee21]

There was the air search they did with high tech equipment when they found the first four bodies. Remember how they found "90 areas of interest." Supposedly they found SG's possessions when they were checking out one of those areas. I don't believe it. I think they were tipped off but will not reveal that information.

Your right . That search took place in the Spring of 2011. They took high resolution pics of every square foot.

 

[Aleph]

I don't get MP as a suspect. MP and Shannan chose to work together. It was not a traditional pimp/prostitute situation. He was her driver. They were at least somewhat friendly. He doesn't have a history of violence. He returned to OB at least once to look for her when he really didn't need to. If he did kill her, leaving the body in OB would be, as others have pointed out, the worst possible idea when he had a truck and could take the body anywhere.

He didn't seem angry that she didn't have money from Brewer and since he had so much interaction with Brewer, he could have just asked for the money himself. Some of the point of having a driver (I would think) is to ensure that the escort gets paid. He didn't need to kill Shannan when it would be so much easier to just not work with her again in the future.

 

[deedee21]

a mid-20's kid, friends with another kid or two of the same age bracket---I'd place my chips on that kid being where SG/JB went IF(and seems most likely) they stayed INSIDE during that "15-minute trip" that we keep hearing about

The police should backtrack. Brewer should tell the police where he and Shanon went for 15 minutes. Whoever they saw should also be offered a polygraph.