POI: Michael Pak

[ps149]

Just for the Record, there is no public record of these items being found with SG:

Black Strappy sandals
Boots
Blonde Wig
Other Ear ring
Bra & possibly underwear
tank top
jacket
any misc jewelry??? (ring, necklace, bracelets?)

100% true yet it is also true that other than MP's statement (and how reliable is he??) we don't have any proof that anything other than her jacket was with her that evening.

As far as undergarments, she would not be the first working girl not to wear any while working (makes for quick and easy dressing and exit from an appointment if it is ever required to gather her things and make a run for it when an appointment goes bad or the police show up).

 

[Justiceforever]

100% true yet it is also true that other than MP's statement (and how reliable is he??) we don't have any proof that anything other than her jacket was with her that evening.

As far as undergarments, she would not be the first working girl not to wear any while working (makes for quick and easy dressing and exit from an appointment if it is ever required to gather her things and make a run for it when an appointment goes bad or the police show up).

Hahaha. I am laughing because when I was an adult entertainer and exotic dancer I "layered up" more to strip out of...takes more time! By the time your naked...it's time to get off stage or leave your appointment. Tricks of the trade!

 

[Vivalor]

I'm just a little confused as to why LE was able to say that the gb4 died of ligature. Saying that all four were strangled even the ones who went missing before SG. But in SG case they marked her death as undetermined.
Maybe I am reading something wrong and don't understand.

 

[WINDSOR]

I'm just a little confused as to why LE was able to say that the gb4 died of ligature. Saying that all four were strangled even the ones who went missing before SG. But in SG case they marked her death as undetermined.
Maybe I am reading something wrong and don't understand.

LE could have determined ligature strangulation by the presence of a fractured hyoid bone for the GB4, in SG's case the hyoid bone was missing, therefore cause of death undetermined.

 

[Justiceforever]

LE could have determined ligature strangulation by the presence of a fractured hyoid bone for the GB4, in SG's case the hyoid bone was missing, therefore cause of death undetermined.

Wasn't there a picture somewhere of what appeared to be a garrote of some sort on one of the victims?

 

[Justiceforever]

100% true yet it is also true that other than MP's statement (and how reliable is he??) we don't have any proof that anything other than her jacket was with her that evening.

As far as undergarments, she would not be the first working girl not to wear any while working (makes for quick and easy dressing and exit from an appointment if it is ever required to gather her things and make a run for it when an appointment goes bad or the police show up).

I agree that MPH is not a reliable source of factual info concerning that evening. However, I can see SG changing shoes and clothes in the SUV after he picked her up.

I hope that LE has picked up on the notion that she had an assortment of clothing with her. And went through the trouble of locating it all. It is not unreasonable to carry a large bag with different outfits in it for different clientle. It is also not unreasonable that she left it in MPs SUV while she was on her call with JB.

Where are her extra items??

 

[twocuriouscats]

Just for the Record, there is no public record of these items being found with SG:

Black Strappy sandals
Boots
Blonde Wig
Other Ear ring
Bra & possibly underwear
tank top
jacket
any misc jewelry??? (ring, necklace, bracelets?)

MP says there was a throw away phone for the numbers listed on public forums. So, was that the phone that was found or was it her personal phone...the only one where a paper record can be matched up.

BBM
I didn't realize Pak had said there was a second phone - I always thought there was/should be one.


Wouldn't it be convenient if the business phone never turned up.

BBM
Yes. To my knowledge it has not turned up.

 

[twocuriouscats]

Wasn't there a picture somewhere of what appeared to be a garrote of some sort on one of the victims?

I don't recall a picture - but I remember I read somewhere (!) that one girl was found with a ligature.

 

[Justiceforever]

I don't recall a picture - but I remember I read somewhere (!) that one girl was found with a ligature.

I saw here somewhere a picture of a crime scene that had an object that looked like a branch lay atop the chest of a victims bones. It was speculated that this COULD have been a garrote. It may also have been just a branch that had rested upon the body. Can anyone lead us back to that thread? That picture? Not the one of SG that looked like she had a raccoon (IMO) on her chest...but the other one of one of the GB4. I'ma search but maybe somebody can find it before I do. TIA

Seaslug maybe? The master of all things pictures?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't recall a picture - but I remember I read somewhere (!) that one girl was found with a ligature.

Ditto.

 

[CriminalMinds]

I'm just a little confused as to why LE was able to say that the gb4 died of ligature. Saying that all four were strangled even the ones who went missing before SG. But in SG case they marked her death as undetermined.
Maybe I am reading something wrong and don't understand.

they stated strangulation--doesn't always mean ligature, but it is assumed to be, since one of the girls did have a ligature left on

 

[CriminalMinds]

I saw here somewhere a picture of a crime scene that had an object that looked like a branch lay atop the chest of a victims bones. It was speculated that this COULD have been a garrote. It may also have been just a branch that had rested upon the body. Can anyone lead us back to that thread? That picture? Not the one of SG that looked like she had a raccoon (IMO) on her chest...but the other one of one of the GB4. I'ma search but maybe somebody can find it before I do. TIA

Seaslug maybe? The master of all things pictures?

i rem that pic--i'll see if i still have it

 

[Vivalor]

I agree that MPH is not a reliable source of factual info concerning that evening. However, I can see SG changing shoes and clothes in the SUV after he picked her up.

I hope that LE has picked up on the notion that she had an assortment of clothing with her. And went through the trouble of locating it all. It is not unreasonable to carry a large bag with different outfits in it for different clientle. It is also not unreasonable that she left it in MPs SUV while she was on her call with JB.

Where are her extra items??

It is stated that a few days later MP and AD went back to OB and was asking around for SG. Can't help but to think that MP would have given the items back to SG boyfriend who she lived with.

 

[deedee21]

I don't recall a picture - but I remember I read somewhere (!) that one girl was found with a ligature.

I think this is what you were referring to. Its sad to see. Youtube HLN missing womans family speaks

 

[Tugela]

This seems like a reasonable explanation. What did JB do with the boots?
1) Keep them
2) Throw them out
3) Give them to MP
4) Give them to LE



BTW Anybody have any luck checking the protocol books of SCPD regarding times of various 911 calls and LE's arrival at Oak Beach on May 1, 2010

Thank you

MOO

He would have thrown anything she left behind away.

Remember, at the time she wasn't known to be dead, she was just a bad date who went crazy and ran off. There was no reason for him to keep anything and at that time LE wasn't doing an investigation or gathering evidence. There was no reason for him to have given any stuff she left to them.

 

[Tugela]

Exactly, Pak said she changed into the boots when she got into his SUV.

Considering she likely left the ballet flats in the SUV (why carry them into Brewers?) then that begs TWO QUESTIONS. How did they get from MP's SUV and into the marsh? And, wouldn't it be even harder to get out of the tight fitting jeans when she was wearing BOOTS!!!

Now, the third Question: Where are the freakin' boots...were they still on her leg bones?

Really, that would be absurd. Taking the tight jeans off but not the BOOTS.

Here is the link to Michael Pak saying she changed into the boots.
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214
"...Gilbert, then 23 and working as a prostitute, police say, had come from Jersey City to set up appointments with men responding to her Craigslist ad.

At the corner of 32nd Street and 6th Avenue, she pulled out her cellphone and called her driver, Michael Pak, he said. It was 10:02 p.m.

Her mood was calm, Pak would later recall. "She sounded normal," he said. "Everything was OK. Inside Pak's SUV, Gilbert changed into dark leather boots and posted an ad on Craigslist, he said. By midnight, she was at her first appointment, a man in a nearby apartment, Pak said.

Over the next six hours, Gilbert's work would unexpectedly take her from the city to a secluded community on Long Island's South Shore, and by early the next morning, she had vanished..."

Ok, so we are deciding that she had multiple clothing items on her. This solves the issue of why some of her belongings were not where her body was found actually.

If she wore jeans going into JB's place, then changed into something else there, she presumably would have been wearing the same when she left. Therefore she would have been carrying the jeans, not wearing them, and dropping them on the run through the swamp wouldn't have been and odd thing to do.

Since she had multiple items of clothing with her, she didnt not have to disrobe while in the swamp at the point the itmes were found, and then run to where she died.

She could have simply dropped them there while fumbling through the swamp in the dark.

That resolves that problem.

 

[Justiceforever]

I think this is what you were referring to. Its sad to see. Youtube HLN missing womans family speaks

Yes Deedee that's it. Thank you. Here's the link.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAJzL_ww_5E&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]HLN: Missing woman's family speaks - YouTube[/ame]

is that a garrote or maybe just a branch that land on her body? Now that I'm seeing it again, it looks kinda large to be a garrote.

 

[NoviceSleuth]

He would have thrown anything she left behind away.

Remember, at the time she wasn't known to be dead, she was just a bad date who went crazy and ran off. There was no reason for him to keep anything and at that time LE wasn't doing an investigation or gathering evidence. There was no reason for him to have given any stuff she left to them.

I think the opposite would be true. If MP or anyone thought she was alive they would then hold on to her stuff to give back to her when she was located. Only someone who knew she was already dead and didn't want her things found would throw them away. IMO:twocents:

 

[fred&edna]

Ok, so we are deciding that she had multiple clothing items on her. This solves the issue of why some of her belongings were not where her body was found actually.

If she wore jeans going into JB's place, then changed into something else there, she presumably would have been wearing the same when she left. Therefore she would have been carrying the jeans, not wearing them, and dropping them on the run through the swamp wouldn't have been and odd thing to do.

Since she had multiple items of clothing with her, she didnt not have to disrobe while in the swamp at the point the itmes were found, and then run to where she died.

She could have simply dropped them there while fumbling through the swamp in the dark.

That resolves that problem.

I disagree. We just have more questions that we cannot answer and that isn't a resolution.

** Also, one thing I do think it's easy to "assume" and that is... Gus Colletti would have said she was not wearing pants.
It's 5-6am and there's a woman screaming for help/pounding on his door... if she was half-dressed I feel sure this would be something he'd mention.

 

[NoviceSleuth]

I disagree. We just have more questions that we cannot answer and that isn't a resolution.

** Also, one thing I do think it's easy to "assume" and that is... Gus Colletti would have said she was not wearing pants.
It's 5-6am and there's a woman screaming for help/pounding on his door... if she was half-dressed I feel sure this would be something he'd mention.

GC said that the only thing she was carrying was her jacket over her shoulder. He wasn't sure about her pocketbook unless it was under her jacket.

I agree that if she was only partially dressed he and the others who saw her would have definitely mentioned that. Also if she was loaded down with her stuff, he would have mentioned that her arms were full.

SG never went into the marsh or discarded her possessions there. Her items were placed in a pile and not "thrown" or "haphazardly trailing" through the reeds, marsh and thick brambles.

I believe she was placed were she was found by way of OP and not dragged through the marsh. Maybe we could account for all of her clothing and items if we knew what was found together with her body by OP and what LE has in their possession. IMO