Police say parents are not answering vital questions #2

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  • #641
BBM
From my understanding, one major case I can think of that the parents refused to be interviewed without each other present, or without attorneys, or without being provided evidence gathered from the LE, were the Ramseys in the JonBenet case. The "Ramsey Team" manipulated the investigation in a way which IMO was close to, if not actually, obstructing justice.
JMO

One of the differences in the two cases though is that JonBenet's body was found, everyone knew that she was deceased right from the start. With Lisa, she is still out there, the parents must know, if they believe their baby could possibly still be alive, that time is of the essence. They also must know that if LE can't move past them, that's time taking away from possibly finding their baby, if they're innocent.

Is it possible that DB/JI, or one of the two, already know it's too late for their baby?

JMHO
 
  • #642
But I bet if the FBI came and processed your surroundings, they would find evidence of such activity and be able to tell you how you got home and what you did for the most part.

Not necessarily. Especially if I had called for someone to help me. If I do not help LE by telling them what I do remember, they are not going to be able to piece together everything I did that night. imoo

If they did have that ability,they would not be so intent on interviewing DB again.
 
  • #643
One of the differences in the two cases though is that JonBenet's body was found, everyone knew that she was deceased right from the start. With Lisa, she is still out there, the parents must know, if they believe their baby could possibly still be alive, that time is of the essence. They also must know that if LE can't move past them, that's time taking away from possibly finding their baby, if they're innocent.

Is it possible that DB/JI, or one of the two, already know it's too late for their baby?

JMHO

IMO, sadly yes.
 
  • #644
If the questions are related to finding Lisa, then what's the problem? Why shouldn't they be as stress-free as possible so they can try real hard to remember stuff, and answer slowly? I don't understand why there is any reason to ask questions that are related to finding the baby, in separate interview rooms at the station.

The only reason I can see to put them in separate rooms is to try and extract a confession. I would not allow myself to be subjected that whether I was guilty or innocent, and it would NOT mean I was not trying to find my baby.

I suggest some research on LE's questioning techniques, when there's time of course. Questioning couples together is almost NEVER done.
 
  • #645
People influence each other, whether they mean to or not. A man and his girlfriend see someone gunned down in the street. LE is gonna talk to them separately as soon as possible. They will probably talk to them together too, but separate is key so each's recollections and answers are their own and not tainted by suggestion or what the other says. A couples' closest family member goes missing; same thing.

Separate questioning is simply fundamental to investigation; it means nothing more than the investigator wants untainted witness accounts and the truth as each witness knows it. Questioning witnesses together does not render the same value. Refusing separate questions is restricting the truth-finding process. Asking the same question to two witness separately about the same event won't always render the same answers. Clues can be gleaned from both the consistencies and inconsistencies in the witnesses' statements. These are things that move the investigation forward and closer to the truth.

LE isn't aiming for a false confession by asking for separate interviews as new information becomes known. It's police work 101. LE doesn't want false confessions in my opinion. They also wouldn't expect any confessions from witnesses who will have lawyers present during their separate interviews. If one or both of the parents is guilty and someone cracks and confesses; good. We should all want that. Just the truth, for Lisa. Whether the parents (one or both) are innocent or guilty, if neither cracks but just answers honestly, those inconsistencies that Debbi's dad called "itty bitty" (after Debbi did her press tour about failing a poly) might be cleared up and in the process render new clues to help find Lisa. If the inconsistencies remain and each witness believes their recollection is correct and holds firm, LE knows they can't rely on that part of the story, which is in itself important to moving forward and determining areas of focus, to help find Lisa.

Suggesting that LE is stalling the investigation in any way by wanting to interview witnesses separately (at the station rather than on their own couches) doesn't make sense to me. Go down to the station, take your lawyers, answer questions separately. It's really not asking for more than LE asks of any witness. Witnesses do it all the time because it's the right thing to do for justice, even when they don't know the victims. Why is it asking too much for the parents of a reportedly abducted baby girl to do the same? It shouldn't be. The fact that the parents and their team think that it is, is reason for scrutinty and concern imo. The fact that they think answering questions may lead them to be more strongly suspected and/or arrested instead of a step towards clearing themselves and finding their baby is again a reason for scrutiny and concern. JMO...

When an infant goes missing, talking to parents repeatedly (together and separately) throughout the investigation is imperative, imo. When an older child or adult goes missing, LE can talk to teachers, doctors, friends, schoolmates, co-workers, lovers, etc.. With an infant, the family is basically it; infants aren't out in the world communicating with others daily, they don't have external routines, they can't have spoken to someone and leaked clues that might be helpful to LE.

Four days into the investigation and that all-important source of information about Lisa (parents) started putting restrictions on what and how they would assist LE. 6 weeKs into the investigation, and they won't answer LE questions unless they are directed-to their attorneys for response, accordiing to Picerno. Picerno then commented that he tells his clients not to talk to police as a rule - because prison is fully of people who talked. How many of his clients had a baby abducted from the crib; a baby who had no one else to speak for her? I'm betting none. I'm also betting he tells his clients not to speak to LE without their lawyers. I'm sure there are plenty of instances where Picerno wants his clients to speak to LE with him present because he can get charges dropped, plea deals, etc... So, that statement sounds more like an excuse as to why he is telling these particular clients not to talk at all(clients who haven't even been named suspects or charged with a dang thing).

Innocent or guilty, I hope Lisa's parents talk to LE separately soon. Sadly for Lisa, I don't think that they will.

Reference Nov 11, 2011:
Picerno said Friday that if police have questions they want answered, the questions can be relayed to him or co-counsel Joe Tacopina of New York, and they will get answers.

“What we’re not going to do is let our clients be subjected to interrogation techniques,” Picerno said.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/11/3260417/baby-lisas-attorney-explains-parents.html#ixzz1f4SfiMdt
 
  • #646
yllek,
Thanks really isn't enough.
:cupcake::yesss:
I wish I could write as well as you.



(Everyday when I get up I think about Lisa and if she's been found.)
 
  • #647
Not sure if this has been posted, or if this is the right place:

http://fox4kc.com/2011/11/28/custody-battle-for-jeremy-irwins-son-moves-forward/

"Picerno says the boy and his other half brother have been kept out of the spotlight, and he says Deborah and Jeremy are good parents, the only strike against them he says was October 4th.

“The one night where someone came into the home, and the baby was kidnapped, Jeremy and Debbie, according to the KCPD and the FBI are not suspects,” Picerno explains.


There is also a video talking about LE setting up meetings with 'cooperating family members', parents were not on that list.
 
  • #648
Very interesting post ...... have they looked deeply into this connection. Very strange a mother suddenly decides to apply for custody and only after another child goes missing in the household. Maybe she is just concerned now, but if concern is genuine why hasn't she been seeing the boy before this.
 
  • #649
Not sure if this has been posted, or if this is the right place:

http://fox4kc.com/2011/11/28/custody-battle-for-jeremy-irwins-son-moves-forward/

"Picerno says the boy and his other half brother have been kept out of the spotlight, and he says Deborah and Jeremy are good parents, the only strike against them he says was October 4th.

“The one night where someone came into the home, and the baby was kidnapped, Jeremy and Debbie, according to the KCPD and the FBI are not suspects,” Picerno explains.


There is also a video talking about LE setting up meetings with 'cooperating family members', parents were not on that list.

hey Shelby2! it hadn't been posted, thanks for the link! :) i posted it in this thread about the custody battle:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154720"]Emergency custody papers filed by mother of JI's son 11/14/11 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
  • #650
I suggest some research on LE's questioning techniques, when there's time of course. Questioning couples together is almost NEVER done.

I know how it's done. I have taken classes in the Reid technique and other psychological interrogation techniques (which is exactly why I would never allow myself to be interviewed at the police station). The point is that LE can not FORCE the parents to talk. Period. So, if they need answers to their questions, they have to ask them whenever and however they can.

The word "questioning" can mean several things. LE will not bother to put two people into an interrogation room (unless it's a juvenile and his/her parent). But if they need answers to pertinent questions they will ask them however they can.

It's not that hard to understand. The parents refuse via their 5th amendment rights to be interrogated further. But they will answer questions pertaining to the baby's disappearance. LE can ask them whatever they want, and there is no indication that the parents have refused to answer any questions. It's really that simple.
 
  • #651
Really?
I'm calling bs on the 'couples interview defense'. LE should never IMHOO allow couples to be interviewed together. That's nothing less than common sense, mo.
Any couples including DB and JI need to be interviewed by LE individually. It makes no sense to interview them together. When together they can hem and haw, cough, wink and give other hints towards what to say.
For me the defense of individual interviews is ludicrous IMHOO.

This is how I think about it-
Poor baby Lisa. She will never be found thanks to her parents and their defenders.

Well, fortunately for those of us who care about our RIGHTS and freedoms, the 5th amendment protects the parents rights. If LE wants to interview them further, it has to be on the PARENTs terms.

LE apparently blew it the first time. They had those parents separated and willing to talk (which they did for 11 hours). LE wasn't able to "break" them during that time, but they created some very scared and suspicious parents by pushing them too hard. Then they publicly announced that the family was no longer cooperating, which the parents apparently never intended. (And LE has had to publicly back off that comment many times - which indicates that it wasn't "exactly" true when they said it).

LE created an adversary from the parents, and the parents apparently were not going to be fooled again. Some might say that LE pushed the parents into getting attorneys, which they didn't feel the need for, until it sunk in that they were putting themselves in jeopardy if they didn't. Thanks to their own mistakes, if LE now wants questions answered, then they have no choice but to ask the parents however the parents are willing to answer. But interrogation in separate interviews is apparently not one of the ways that the parents are willing to do.
 
  • #652
It is SOP to interview potential witnesses separately, not just to see if their stories are cohesive but because oftentimes a person might not want to reveal sensitive info in front of someone else. Not saying it's the case here, but what if one of the two were having or had had an affair, dabbled in drugs, or were holding back other info out of fear of hurting or upsetting the other?

I have no idea what LE actually did or said to these people other than what the parents claim. I don't know if it was a single insult, a prolonged terribly nasty ordeal or what. But if LE says they need to talk to them separately, I'm not going to assume it's simply to trip them up because they've got tunnel vision and are gunning for the parents regardless of the truth.

Of course, there is always the possibility that the parents know LE are gunning for them for reasons and evidence we have yet to learn, in which case, they are wise not to speak to LE at all.

Or of fear of hurting or upsetting other people?
 
  • #653
According to Picerno the parents are not suspects, as per KCPD and FBI.

I don't see a reason to fear that LE would force a confession from people who are not suspects.

Just go and have those interviews already. JMO.
 
  • #654
  • #655
From the Innocent Project

Note these stats are based on people that have been convicted.

"For many reasons – including mental health issues and aggressive law enforcement tactics – innocent people sometimes confess to crimes they did not commit"

http://www.innocenceproject.org/fix/False-Confessions.php?phpMyAdmin=52c4ab7ea46t7da4197

ETA The Fox case comes to mind here...

Isn't that sort of what happened with the 3 guys that were recently released from prison (West Memphis 3 I think it is)?

What I find curious is, if LE is allowing them to bring their attorney into these separate interviews, what exactly is the point then? The lawyer is going to stop DB from answering any question as soon as he thinks she's getting herself in trouble. The questions are still going to be somewhat filtered with the lawyer sitting right there so what exactly is the difference between that and giving the lawyers questions now?

I'm not saying either way is the right way to do it, I just don't understand what the difference would be to LE, assuming they would allow the attorney to go in with her on the interview.
 
  • #656
Good question. WE don't know. They may very well be totally cooperating now or not. Nobody has stated anything on this publicly for weeks either way other than LE simply stating that NOBODY has been cleared. They mentioned nothing, to my knowledge, in the last statement about cooperation at all.

Thank you all for the responses. I think it is easy to say what I would do, but I am not being faced with hours and hours (perhaps) of questioning by police when I (perhaps) believe I have told all I know. I admire this jurisdiction and the ones helping PD-I believe, however, that they have not been warm and fuzzy with the parents, and that they have deliberately applied (possibly) needless pressure on them using the media. At the minimum, they have used the media to manipulate the publics idea of what the parents have and have not done.

They may have very good reason, but I know of enough cases where the parent(s) were the focus and in the end they were not involved.

So still a fence sitter here.
 
  • #657
According to Picerno the parents are not suspects, as per KCPD and FBI.

I don't see a reason to fear that LE would force a confession from people who are not suspects.

Just go and have those interviews already. JMO.




Mr Picerno talks out many parts of his body it seems.
And at the end of each day Lisa Irwin is still missing and her parents are still not cooperating. Those two facts have not changed.
 
  • #658
From the Innocent Project

Note these stats are based on people that have been convicted.

"For many reasons – including mental health issues and aggressive law enforcement tactics – innocent people sometimes confess to crimes they did not commit"

http://www.innocenceproject.org/fix/False-Confessions.php?phpMyAdmin=52c4ab7ea46t7da4197

ETA The Fox case comes to mind here...

Carl Dorr, father of a Hadden Clark victim, confessed to killing Michelle (his little girl) and burying her under his house.

He did not.
 
  • #659
I thought LE said the parents were cooperating they just wouldn't do separate interviews again.....
 
  • #660
I don't think it is cooperation when you refuse to come in and answer any and all questions LE puts to you. Sep or together...what's the big rip? Your daughter is gone. Are you tacking up flyers? Putting her face out there in the media? Searching for your daughter? Nope, you are getting back to 100%. That in itself shows how much you really care about your child. I am sick of you people. Children are not disposable.
 
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