Police say parents are not answering vital questions #2

[Whisperer]

To me that means the media settled so they wouldn't have to admit guilt. The fact that they settled, to me, means the Ramsey's won.

People don't necessarily settle because they are guilty.

 

[Donjeta]

Here she says she never saw her after 6:40...Not even 7:30 but 6:40.

So... if she never lied to LE why were they saying that Lisa was last seen at 10:30?

10/19/2011 – Today Show
(No new footage).
Peter Alexander: “When’s the last time you saw your daughter?”
DB: “When I put her to bed that night.”
PA: “What time?”
DB: “6:40. I looked at the clock and she had been in bed.”
PA: “It’s hard to watch that isn’t it? [referring to home videos of Lisa.] She’s adorable.”
DB: “It making me feel good, but it makes me overwhelmed at the same time, because I don’t know if I’ll ever have more than those memories. It’s a scary thought.”
JI: “Yeah, it’s, it’s hard. But that’s her. There she is. That’s how she always was. Happy and talking to everybody.”


I truly don't understand how it's possible to think that her story didn't change.

It changes in the middle of this interview:

MK: “When you went in at 10:30, after the neighbor left, what did you do?”
DB: “Probably went right to my room.”
MK: “Why do you say probably?”
BD: “Because, um, sometimes, I check on her. Well, most of the time, I check on her. And then the boys, their room is right next to each other. And I sneak in and make sure, you know. And the boys had been awake, and I had went, um, in there, and told them they could come sleep in my bed. And, um, so, I’m assuming that I went and checked on her too, but, I don’t really know.”
MK: “You don’t remember?”
DB: “No.”
MK: “So, it’s possible you did not check on her before you went to bed at 10:30?”
DB: “Yeah. Yeah. But there’s no way that anybody could have got in.”
MK: “So the last time that you saw your alive, in your home, was when you put her down at 6:40?”
DB: “Right. When I put her down, yeah.”

First she's assuming that she didn't check on Lisa and then she's assuming that she did.
Ok, so let's say she didn't remember and always told LE the truth about not remembering.

Then who the heck saw Lisa at 10:30?

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Right. "Last seen". That is the point. The reason so many people think Debbie is lying is because they believe she told LE that she put the baby to BED at 10:30, and then changed it to 6:40.

In fact, there is nothing to suggest that Debbie ever told LE that she put the baby to bed at 10:30.

Nationwide Amber Alerts suggest that very well. Do you think that LE just pulled that 10:30 time out of their hats to issue the Amber Alert?

Then her story changed.................then they got lawyers.....and now will not cooperate....and nowhere closer to finding this beautiful child. I find their actions apalling.JMO.

 

[Karmaa]

I wasn't discussing the Pirro interview. The time that the neighbor left has nothing to do with what DB discussed in her original story to LE (which is what they told the media this next day), and what she told Megyn Kelly.

I'm not sure what we're supposed to learn from this snippet of the Pirro interview.

I wasn't sure why you quoted all that, LOL. I think we all know that Debbie told MK (and a few other reporters) that she usually checks on Lisa before she goes to bed, but that she doesn't actually remember doing it that night.

The reason I mention the Pirro interview is because that was what was used to 'prove" Debbie is a liar - comparing it to the interview that you quoted.

There is still nothing that shows that she lied to LE, or even that she lied to the media. And since this is all being used to prove that she is a liar (not necessarily by you - just in general), maybe people should look at what was actually said.

 

[natsound]

Just to alleviate any confusion, the point is well taken that DB may not have put Lisa to bed at 10:30. But that's not the point some of us are trying to make, so we can put that to rest.

DB told LE that she last saw Lisa at 10:30. That's the time police initially reported to the media. DB changed her story after several days and told national media that she "may not have", or "did not", check on Lisa at 10:30, and she last saw her at 6:40.

That is two different stories.

 

[natsound]

I wasn't sure why you quoted all that, LOL. I think we all know that Debbie told MK (and a few other reporters) that she usually checks on Lisa before she goes to bed, but that she doesn't actually remember doing it that night.

The reason I mention the Pirro interview is because that was what was used to 'prove" Debbie is a liar - comparing it to the interview that you quoted.

There is still nothing that shows that she lied to LE, or even that she lied to the media. And since this is all being used to prove that she is a liar (not necessarily by you - just in general), maybe people should look at what was actually said.

DB changed her story about the time she last saw Lisa. Is it a lie? In a missing child investigation, a mom does not want to make that kind of mistake, I can guarantee that.

 

[Whisperer]

The one thing I've noticed with the two parents is the order of which they checked the kids. DB says she clearly recalls checking in on the boys @ 10:30 and inviting them to sleep with her. She doesn't recall checking on HER (Lisa).

Jeremy comes home and checks on the boys and then checks on DB. He also doesn't check on Lisa.

Together they both check on Her (Lisa) and discover she's missing. They never once admit to finding Lisa "gone" by themselves. They will not be singled out then and they won't be singled out now to talk to LE about Lisa. They are both sticking together and not willing to take any responsibility alone.

Why didn't db recall checking on her sick baby but remembered clearly checking on the boys and inviting them in bed with her...and the kitten. Where was Lisa at this time?

 

[Donjeta]

The Amber alert said:

Circumstances: The 10 month-old child was last on 10/03/2011 at approximately 10:30PM asleep in her crib.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Prayers-for-little-Lisa-Irwin-and-her-family/164640103622554?sk=info

Notice "asleep in her crib"

A baby would ordinarily be asleep in her crib some time AFTER being put to bed.

Quibbling about when DB put her to bed confuses the issue imo because this says nothing about when she was put to bed, just when she was last seen (allegedly).

 

[natsound]

The one thing I've noticed with the two parents is the order of which they checked the kids. DB says she clearly recalls checking in on the boys @ 10:30 and inviting them to sleep with her. She doesn't recall checking on HER (Lisa).

Jeremy comes home and checks on the boys and then checks on DB. He also doesn't check on Lisa.

Together they both check on Her (Lisa) and discover she's missing. They never once admit to finding Lisa "gone" by themselves. They will not be singled out then and they won't be singled out now to talk to LE about Lisa.

Why didn't db recall checking on her sick baby but remembered clearly checking on the boys and inviting them in bed with her...and the kitten. Where was Lisa at this time?

bbm

Hasn't that changed too? I remember JI saying he checked on Lisa, then went and told DB that she wasn't in her crib, and she flipped out. I'll have to search for the quote.

 

[Karmaa]

OK this is getting a bit too much, LOL.

All I am saying is that we do not know what Debbie told LE about the time. However, everything indicates that LE thought she last SAW Lisa at 10:30. Not that she put the baby to bed at 10:30.

The media encouraged the public to believe that Debbie lied to them (and to LE). There is nothing to prove either of those.

Debbie has explained that she actually doesn't have an active memory of looking in on Lisa at 10:30, but that she usually does. I don't see how that is sinister. Remember, this woman was going through a hugely stressful situation for the first few days. But she knew she usually checks the baby, and she knew she had been outside till 10:30. If she amended that last checkup later, it seems like she was just trying to clear things up. Plus she has never said that she DIDN'T check Lisa at 10:30, only that she can't recall it.

Anyway, I'm out of here for a bit. Ya'll have fun! :seeya:

 

[Donjeta]

OK this is getting a bit too much, LOL.

All I am saying is that we do not know what Debbie told LE about the time. However, everything indicates that LE thought she last SAW Lisa at 10:30. Not that she put the baby to bed at 10:30.

The media encouraged the public to believe that Debbie lied to them (and to LE). There is nothing to prove either of those.

Debbie has explained that she actually doesn't have an active memory of looking in on Lisa at 10:30, but that she usually does. I don't see how that is sinister. Remember, this woman was going through a hugely stressful situation for the first few days. But she knew she usually checks the baby, and she knew she had been outside till 10:30. If she amended that last checkup later, it seems like she was just trying to clear things up. Plus she has never said that she DIDN'T check Lisa at 10:30, only that she can't recall it.

Anyway, I'm out of here for a bit. Ya'll have fun! :seeya:

If she didn't remember checking on Lisa but said she did, that's a lie. IMO and MOO.

Saying anything but, "I don't have a clue if I checked on her after putting her to bed" is a lie in such a situation.

I don't know why we're debating this because we clearly have a different definition of what truthful means.

 

[Whisperer]

bbm

Hasn't that changed too? I remember JI saying he checked on Lisa, then went and told DB that she wasn't in her crib, and she flipped out. I'll have to search for the quote.

I wish LE could talk to jeremy alone because they have their best chance talking to him. Jeremy said" I checked on the boys and I went into the bdrm and saw the kitten and the lights on and wanted to know what was going on...then he said, "We" went into the her room and didn't see her in her crib. I remember the change and from "I" to ''We" in that sentence as it stood out to me.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

If she didn't remember checking on Lisa but said she did, that's a lie. IMO and MOO.

Saying anything but, "I don't have a clue if I checked on her after putting her to bed" is a lie in such a situation.

I don't know why we're debating this because we clearly have a different definition of what truthful means.

and a different definition of cooperation.

 

[annalia]

Just to alleviate any confusion, the point is well taken that DB may not have put Lisa to bed at 10:30. But that's not the point some of us are trying to make, so we can put that to rest.

DB told LE that she last saw Lisa at 10:30. That's the time police initially reported to the media. DB changed her story after several days and told national media that she "may not have", or "did not", check on Lisa at 10:30, and she last saw her at 6:40.

That is two different stories.

Just jumping off your post

Does anyone recall LE making a comment right after DB changed her story in the media, something to the effect of they hadn't been aware of that and are now going to have to work with a different timeline?

I can remember it being said but I can't locate the article or interview.

 

[Whisperer]

If she didn't remember checking on Lisa but said she did, that's a lie. IMO and MOO.

Saying anything but, "I don't have a clue if I checked on her after putting her to bed" is a lie in such a situation.

[I]I don't know why we're debating this because we clearly have a different definition of what truthful means.

[/I]

..ain't that the truth? :floorlaugh:

 

[natsound]

OK this is getting a bit too much, LOL.

All I am saying is that we do not know what Debbie told LE about the time. However, everything indicates that LE thought she last SAW Lisa at 10:30. Not that she put the baby to bed at 10:30.

The media encouraged the public to believe that Debbie lied to them (and to LE). There is nothing to prove either of those.

Debbie has explained that she actually doesn't have an active memory of looking in on Lisa at 10:30, but that she usually does. I don't see how that is sinister. Remember, this woman was going through a hugely stressful situation for the first few days. But she knew she usually checks the baby, and she knew she had been outside till 10:30. If she amended that last checkup later, it seems like she was just trying to clear things up. Plus she has never said that she DIDN'T check Lisa at 10:30, only that she can't recall it.

Anyway, I'm out of here for a bit. Ya'll have fun! :seeya:

LE didn't just pull the 10:30 time out of the air.

Please explain how the media encouraged people to think DB lied. It appears to me she did that herself.

 

[Donjeta]

Here, Deborah says that the last time she saw Lisa was at about 10:30 when she put Lisa to sleep and gave her a bottle.

10/6/2011 GMA interview with Lisa’s Parents
http://abcnews.go.com/watch/good-mo...D55146700/gma-1006-apple-visionary-steve-jobs

Reporter: “So, so, so, Debbie, try and take us back to the last time you saw Lisa. You put her, you checked in on her around 10:30 Monday night?”

DB: “Um, Yeah. Between the time she went to bed and the time I went to bed, and uh, I gave her her bottle, I, I, I put her to sleep, and uh, that was the last time we seen her.”

If that's not what she actually means she's got a very confusing way of communicating and I've no problem believing there are tons of holes in her story, as far as LE is concerned. They must have had a world of trouble deciphering what she means if nothing means what it appears to mean.

 

[cityslick]

DB changed her story about the time she last saw Lisa. Is it a lie? In a missing child investigation, a mom does not want to make that kind of mistake, I can guarantee that.

Why does it always have to be for a nefarious reason (that she changed the time)? Why can't it just be that after the initial hysteria of that evening in talking to police, she calmed down and thought through the details of that night. Because she's not 100% sure, she says 'probably'.

That's is what bothers me when the 'liar' tag gets thrown around, which equated to 'well, she must be guilty, she lied about the time'. IMO, if DB did something to that child, why would she say one time to LE and then purposely days later create that 4 hour 'hole' that makes her look suspecious? If she knows for a fact that BL wasn't alive at 10:30pm, why wouldn't she keep the same 'check on 10:30pm' story?

 

[Whisperer]

She clearly recalls talking and seeing the boys though, doesn't she? By about 10:30, I would think Lisa would have woken up, having spent most of the the past 7 hours in the crib. Sick or not, she probably needed to be changed. Prior to 4:30, how long was she in the crib. I noticed JI doesn't elaborate on anything Lisa that day. Everyone who has spoken stated she was in her crib @ 4:30pm. None said what Lisa was doing but it is to be assumed "asleep".

 

[Whisperer]

Why does it always have to be for a nefarious reason (that she changed the time)? Why can't it just be that after the initial hysteria of that evening in talking to police, she calmed down and thought through the details of that night. Because she's not 100% sure, she says 'probably'.

That's is what bothers me when the 'liar' tag gets thrown around, which equated to 'well, she must be guilty, she lied about the time'. IMO, if DB did something to that child, why would she say one time to LE and then purposely days later create that 4 hour 'hole' that makes her look suspecious? If she knows for a fact that BL wasn't alive at 10:30pm, why wouldn't she keep the same 'check on 10:30pm' story?

After 10:30 put more suspicion on her. If she was blacked out, she would be included in the list of top suspects because she has no idea what she did. To extend the timeline 4 hours opens up the case to include more candidates.