Poll: Did Casey Really Keep Caylee in the Trunk Before Caylee Died?

[Pink Panther]

If she did put her in the trunk I think that she may have done so only once or twice...Perhaps in the evenings when the temperature wasn't so hot; with the seats down and perhaps with the windows down a little. I wouldn't put her past that. I don't know why but, until she decided to kill her, I don't think that she tortured her unnecessarily - In fact, I think that she took pains to "look good" with regards to her daughter's welfare. So, if she did "put her in the trunk" I think that she only did so under what would be considered to be "acceptable" (albeit "unacceptable") conditions.

MOO

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Why would CA go to the trouble to obtain chloroform to clean the car when there are plenty of other cleaning agents and solvents readily available? Plus, if chloroform or anything else had been used to actually clean the car why oh why was it still a stinky stained mess with maggots, etc. when it was found?

Human Decomp is a special kind of....somethin'. I once saw an episode of "Myth Busters" where they tried to dispel the myth that you couldn't sell a car for $100 that a dead body was in. The animal closest to us in this manner, from what I understood, was the pig. They took a large dead pig and put it in a car. Don't remember what kind of car, but it was new and nice. They let the pig rot in there for a couple days and then tried to sell the car. They couldn't. No amount of cleaning will help. Maybe, if just a tiny couple drops leak and it is cleaned quickly, but I don't even know about that. The smell seeps into even the metal from what I have heard here on some other threads about the smell in the car.

In addition, when I was pregnant with my first, the man three doors down from his grandmothers house died...in the house...in July...with no local family to wonder where he was. The windows in the house were covered with flys when the paperboy knocked on the door to check on him because the papers were piling up and he usually stopped the paper if he want out of town. When the fire dept got there and opened the door we were in the front yard and THREE HOUSES DOWN I got sick in the front yard. The family had to tear the floor in the bedroom out and replace the beams under the bed (he was a large man who died in the bed if you know what I'm gettin' at).

I sometimes wonder, besides washing the pants and the knife how much work on the smell Cindy really tried. As a nurse, she probably knows about how hard that smell is to get out, same with George. When they left the car with them, they probably weren't in a rush to clean it up. They knew it wasn't pizza and who would want to clean such a thing knowing where it came from and what it actually was. That's who Lee's chuckling, nervous or not always bothered me. I don't see chloroform being the first choice of cleaning products. I have no idea what it was used for, but I do believe it was sinister motives and I believe it belonged to KC. In my mind, and this is just my opinion: that type of thing would be owned by the type of person who would put duct tape on baby skin and toss them from the street. Not even bothering with a loving disposal...like you would if it were an accident. Accidents aren't calculated. Before or after.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Someone in the Anthony household did a internet search on how to make chloroform. Do we know what date that search was made?

I don't think anyone was trying to use chloroform as cleaning fluid.

I also don't think Caylee was ever kept in the trunk prior to her death. It's just too hot in Florida for that to be a possibility.

Casey/someone searched for chloroform on March 17, 2008 at the same time she was also looking on missing children web sites.
Searches conducted March 17 included "how to make chloroform," "neck breaking," and "shovel," according to the documents. There were also searches for "alcohol," "acetone," "peroxide," "hydrogen peroxide," and "death," the documents said.


It is not known who made the searches, but Cindy, was at work at the time the searches were entered, according to a time-sheet, which was among the released documents.

http://www.local6.com/news/18151964...pn_12pm&tmi=orlpn_12pm_-1_10550111262008&ts=H

 

[okiedokietoo]

I think it was first part of June the Boyfriend goes to sleep with KC and Caylee in bed with him - he wakes up and Caylee is gone, KC says mother called in the night and had her take Caylee home, CA was asked about this and said it never happened. Where did she put Caylee?

 

[Mystic]

I think it was first part of June the Boyfriend goes to sleep with KC and Caylee in bed with him - he wakes up and Caylee is gone, KC says mother called in the night and had her take Caylee home, CA was asked about this and said it never happened. Where did she put Caylee?

I know, I've been waiting for some other interviews to clear this up. It doesn't make sense for KC to have moved a sleeping child to the car. I don't believe she would have survived the trunk although possibly the rear seat of the car with the windows rolled partially down. But for what purpose, RM (bf) didn't have a problem with Caylee spending the night. Definately a 2 year old being left alone or waking up alone in a car would have shown tremondous fear afterwards.

CA could have lied or in the context of the question asked she didn't recall actually telling KC to bring Caylee home. In which I mean that KC was always lying about being at work, so was it really the middle of the night or more likely the time CA would have expected KC to return anyway. So KC brings Caylee home and sneaks back out to RM. Just an idea.

 

[Jolynna]

I think it was first part of June the Boyfriend goes to sleep with KC and Caylee in bed with him - he wakes up and Caylee is gone, KC says mother called in the night and had her take Caylee home, CA was asked about this and said it never happened. Where did she put Caylee?

This didn't happen in May or June.

Ricardo said it happened while he and KC were an "official couple". Ric and KC stopped officially being boyfriend and girlfriend in April. Ric remembers both KC and Caylee still being at his house all the mornings before he went to work in June.

 

[MissJames]

This didn't happen in May or June.

Ricardo said it happened while he and KC were an "official couple". Ric and KC stopped officially being boyfriend and girlfriend in April. Ric remembers both KC and Caylee still being at his house all the mornings before he went to work in June.

Actually,it was June.Caylee and KC had many sleepovers at Ricardo's in May and June,including the one where Caylee was gone in the morning,according to ricardo's LE interview.

http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/rm092308.pdf

 

[Shear22]

Actually,it was June.Caylee and KC had many sleepovers at Ricardo's in May and June,including the one where Caylee was gone in the morning,according to ricardo's LE interview.

http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/rm092308.pdf

I don't think it was in June. I just re-read the interview that you provided the link for and the relevant portion reads:

DR: Okay. So on the, do you remember when that was about uh, her bringing Caylee home in the middle of the night?
RM: I really don’t know.
DR: It was when you were still dating?
RM: We were still dating uhm, but…
DR: Back in April? Before that?
RM: I wouldn’t be able to say. I would uh…

RM clearly doesn't remember exactly when it was but in other portions of the interview he goes into great detail about what happened during and after the sleepovers in June so I think the taking Caylee home night was back when RM and KC were officially dating.

Also, even though CA disputes this, I trust RM, who does not have any reason to lie about it, over CA who did not want to admit to the public that KC was out and about in the middle of the night with Caylee and that she knew about it.

And since all of this is slightly OT, I'll add that nothing has given me any reason to believe that Caylee was ever put in the trunk alive because 1) KC and Caylee's movements seem to be accounted for by pings and other evidence, 2) Caylee would not have survived very long at all in the trunk, 3) A lot of people mentioned that Caylee had separation issues at bedtime and I can't imagine that it could have been very feasible to transfer a sleeping Caylee to the trunk without waking her up unless she were heavily drugged. Then, where would the act of placing her in the trunk take place? In the garage at the Anthony house? In that case she would have had to take her out of the house already asleep and drive around with her rolling around in the trunk (not that she didn't do it after Caylee was already dead, but driving around with a live child in your trunk seems to be begging for even a drugged child to wake up). Did she put her in the trunk in the parking lot of Tony's apartments? Obvious logistical problems there.

There just doesn't seem to be any reason to believe KC ever used the trunk for anything other than normal trunk uses, a temporary trashcan, or a temporary coffin.

 

[MissJames]

I don't think it was in June. I just re-read the interview that you provided the link for and the relevant portion reads:

DR: Okay. So on the, do you remember when that was about uh, her bringing Caylee home in the middle of the night?
RM: I really don’t know.
DR: It was when you were still dating?
RM: We were still dating uhm, but…
DR: Back in April? Before that?
RM: I wouldn’t be able to say. I would uh…

RM clearly doesn't remember exactly when it was but in other portions of the interview he goes into great detail about what happened during and after the sleepovers in June so I think the taking Caylee home night was back when RM and KC were officially dating.

Also, even though CA disputes this, I trust RM, who does not have any reason to lie about it, over CA who did not want to admit to the public that KC was out and about in the middle of the night with Caylee and that she knew about it.

And since all of this is slightly OT, I'll add that nothing has given me any reason to believe that Caylee was ever put in the trunk alive because 1) KC and Caylee's movements seem to be accounted for by pings and other evidence, 2) Caylee would not have survived very long at all in the trunk, 3) A lot of people mentioned that Caylee had separation issues at bedtime and I can't imagine that it could have been very feasible to transfer a sleeping Caylee to the trunk without waking her up unless she were heavily drugged. Then, where would the act of placing her in the trunk take place? In the garage at the Anthony house? In that case she would have had to take her out of the house already asleep and drive around with her rolling around in the trunk (not that she didn't do it after Caylee was already dead, but driving around with a live child in your trunk seems to be begging for even a drugged child to wake up). Did she put her in the trunk in the parking lot of Tony's apartments? Obvious logistical problems there.

There just doesn't seem to be any reason to believe KC ever used the trunk for anything other than normal trunk uses, a temporary trashcan, or a temporary coffin.

You are right ! I stand corrected. Wish he could remember when that was,though.

 

[Shear22]

You are right ! I stand corrected. Wish he could remember when that was,though.

Me too! I also wish the detectives didn't have such a bad habit of cutting people off and putting words in their mouths.

 

[LCoastMom]

I voted not sure, but I lean towards the fact that Tony did not want Caylee around much and the trunk was used as baby sitter at times when Cindy did not feel like baby sitting.
I do not think it was used that way before tony.
A baby can get extra Liquiprin/aspirin to fall asleep, That would not look like a drug in any test.
I have even heard of mothers who give a baby a couple of sips of wine so that they would fall asleep.
Most nights ALL KC needed was a few hours at the club, and did return home.
Sometimes maybe KC would wait in the car till Caylee was asleep so she can meet Tony without her.
CAYLEE did look scared in several pictures and the mark under her eye may not be a sign of a playful fall. The child was not happy toward the end, and I am sure that Cindy was beginning to see that.
I too believe and have said many times that I totally believe that Caylee told Cindy something in that car ride home from visiting Grandpa. She was just beginning to talk and maybe she said just enough;
She was never really seen again. It is very possible that Casey wanted to punish Caylee and told her she is now going in the Car and getting her mouth taped because she had spoken. Maybe she snatched the baby because she was afraid to leave her with Cindy who was asking questions.
I do not think KC intended to kill Caylee, if she did it?
She did get back in the house to package her little body.

But I also think it is VERY VERY possible that KC was an escort and was so mad Cindy found out she went right to work and left the baby at the front desk. But something happened to the baby; after all in is NO play ground for children. And KC was left with a problem.

WHAT baffles me is: WHY not produce one real babysitter? I think everyone has had at least one baby sitter by the age of 3. Is there one? and it would be attached to another story?
What baffles me too is a girl with no real skill has not left one lose thread?
What also baffles me is George keeps on getting delays on every court date from the start.

I do not know if the baby started out in the trunk or was transferred to the trunk but GA certainly knows and always knew that it was not pizza.

I ALWAYS thought that she should have been charged with Criminal Negligence Resulting in Murder.
Because either scenario would fit that charge.

I am afraid that the charges they filed require DIRECT LINK / EVIDENCE that tie KC to Caylee's death, and I am afraid that charge is going to let her out on time served by the time this is even heard in court.

Hi Songline, We meet here again!

Looking at the pictures of Caylee taken on 6-15 have always made me sad. There was something going on with that baby in the days leading up to 6-16. IMO.

But if Cindy figured something out, or if Caylee said something to Cindy on 6-15. Why did Cindy allow KC to go to bed in the same room as Caylee that night? Why did Cindy allow KC near Caylee again? Seeing just what we've seen, knowing just what has been released, understanding what Cindy was dealing with in KC. Why did she let KC back in that house at all?

When we first started seeing lots of pictures, I was sooo able to see the changes in Caylee. Why didn't Cindy? If everything was hunky dory when KC left with Caylee on 6/16, I could see Cindy taking a step back. But if Cindy was learning bad things about KC from Caylee; how could she wait til 7-3/7-4 to start picking up the pace of looking for her....

Caylee did have some real babysitters, KC's friend Kristine has baby sat Caylee before, Holly has babysat, one other person, Lauren or Molina, maybe? Oh and Jesse's family. It just sounds like KC had moved beyond the circle of friends she has had for years because they would have known KC without Caylee for days on end, just doesn't add up.

I don't think anyone else was involved with Caylee's death. I don't think KC would be rotting in jail if anyone else could be called on and if there were others, OSCO would have found them long ago. That actually is my bottom line with the evidence. Everything ties back to the A's house. KC pings there most of the day. Cindy worked, George worked, Lee wasn't around. If there was anyone else involved there would be strings floating around pointing to them.

Being busted for prostitution is a nothing anymore. Especially compared to murder. They would have dropped those charges in a heartbeat if KC would flip Caylee's murderer in exchange.

The house we found, the one that a Gonzales was living in off Suburban, has neighbors very close on either side. If KC had been leaving Caylee there, one of the neighbors would have seen something. IIRC one even came out and asked the WS who nosed around there, what she was doing. And with no power, if KC left Caylee there, there would have been some powerful screaming if she woke up alone. Plus the inside of that house was just trashed. I don't think KC would go in there willingly....

When my son was 2 the cops showed up one night from a baby screaming call. We were trying to get him to sleep in his bed, he didn't want to. We only left him for a couple minutes at a time, then go back and comfort him. Someone called the cops. :crazy:

KC had plenty of friends she could have left Caylee with if she wanted to. For whatever reason, she just chose not to.

I'm still counting on the evidence we haven't seen, the evidence that caused the GJ to hand over a murder indictment in just a few minutes time.

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[LCoastMom]

Actually,it was June.Caylee and KC had many sleepovers at Ricardo's in May and June,including the one where Caylee was gone in the morning,according to ricardo's LE interview.

http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/rm092308.pdf

Yeah, it was weird to me that they both claimed they stopped dating in April-ish, but they were still doing the "nasty" up into June...

Then there was that text between KC and Amy, when KC told Amy, RM had still wanted to have 'benefits', even after she told him she liked ToNY now. But she said no because she isn't that kind of girl and she had too much 'respect' for RM to use him that way. That has to be one of my favorite texts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

 

[Themis]

I think it was first part of June the Boyfriend goes to sleep with KC and Caylee in bed with him - he wakes up and Caylee is gone, KC says mother called in the night and had her take Caylee home, CA was asked about this and said it never happened. Where did she put Caylee?

It doesn't matter if it happened in May or June of 2008 or before. The point is Caylee disappeared during the night and KC's explanation that she took her to the A's house was refuted by CA. CA said it never happened.

So, what we have is Caylee was there. Then in the morning, she was not there but KC was. That's what makes me think Caylee might have been in the trunk before the night of her death; perhaps to keep her from waking up the boyfriend, perhaps as a punishment or perhaps just a way to store her until morning. But Caylee wasn't in the boyfriend's apartment and wasn't at the A's house; which leaves -- the Pontiac -- maybe in the trunk.

That child had such sad eyes. Remember when she was looking at the person filming her while she was coloring on the floor. It felt like she didn't trust the person behind the camera and didn't want them to focus on her. That person was likely KC doing the filming. Something tells me Caylee's life with KC wasn't all peaches and cream. It wasn't alright all the time.

JMHO, of course.

 

[Themis]

Just another couple of thoughts -- JMHO, of course.
Computer research on chloroform, peroxide, death etc on or about March 17, 2008. March to May time frame, KC, Caylee and boyfriend are sharing a bed. Caylee is there at night, but not there in the morning, but KC is there. The story about CA calling and taking Caylee home to the A's house -- is debunked by CA who said it never happened. Probably KC moved Caylee to her car. Probably not in car where people going to work could walk by and see in the windows. To prevent people from hearing crying or noise maybe chloroform -- knock the kid unconscious. Just theories. I haven't seen evidence showing there wouldn't be enough airflow in the trunk of that Pontiac to keep a child alive -- especially if breathing was shallow. Heat during the day would, of course, challenge survival. But, at night in the early spring -- maybe.

 

[Shear22]

It doesn't matter if it happened in May or June of 2008 or before. The point is Caylee disappeared during the night and KC's explanation that she took her to the A's house was refuted by CA. CA said it never happened.

So, what we have is Caylee was there. Then in the morning, she was not there but KC was. That's what makes me think Caylee might have been in the trunk before the night of her death; perhaps to keep her from waking up the boyfriend, perhaps as a punishment or perhaps just a way to store her until morning. But Caylee wasn't in the boyfriend's apartment and wasn't at the A's house; which leaves -- the Pontiac -- maybe in the trunk.

That child had such sad eyes. Remember when she was looking at the person filming her while she was coloring on the floor. It felt like she didn't trust the person behind the camera and didn't want them to focus on her. That person was likely KC doing the filming. Something tells me Caylee's life with KC wasn't all peaches and cream. It wasn't alright all the time.

JMHO, of course.

So KC for no good reason, other than to get Caylee out of the bed she was sharing with RM (who was sound asleep and who they shared the bed with all night long on many occasions) picked up a sleeping Caylee and took her down to the Sawgrass parking lot, opened the trunk and placed her in it without waking her up?

It doesn't seem like RM minded Caylee there and the fact that he slept through KC removing Caylee from the bed and the house and returning to bed with him proves that he probably wasn't in much danger of being woken up.

It's much more plausible that CA did, in fact, call or text to insist that KC bring the baby home and then just lied about it. Having to call KC at 3 am to bring Caylee home doesn't exactly fit with the mother of the year image that CA was trying to portray for KC and we all know that CA is not opposed to indulging in a few lies, especially about things that can't be proven one way or the other (understatement here). Remember that CA said that KC never spent the night out with Caylee at a guy's house at all and we all know that that wasn't true.

 

[Tuffy]

It doesn't matter if it happened in May or June of 2008 or before. The point is Caylee disappeared during the night and KC's explanation that she took her to the A's house was refuted by CA. CA said it never happened.

So, what we have is Caylee was there. Then in the morning, she was not there but KC was. That's what makes me think Caylee might have been in the trunk before the night of her death; perhaps to keep her from waking up the boyfriend, perhaps as a punishment or perhaps just a way to store her until morning. But Caylee wasn't in the boyfriend's apartment and wasn't at the A's house; which leaves -- the Pontiac -- maybe in the trunk.

That child had such sad eyes. Remember when she was looking at the person filming her while she was coloring on the floor. It felt like she didn't trust the person behind the camera and didn't want them to focus on her. That person was likely KC doing the filming. Something tells me Caylee's life with KC wasn't all peaches and cream. It wasn't alright all the time.

JMHO, of course.

BBM

Kinda OT, but I always thought CA did the filming.

 

[MissJames]

So KC for no good reason, other than to get Caylee out of the bed she was sharing with RM (who was sound asleep and who they shared the bed with all night long on many occasions) picked up a sleeping Caylee and took her down to the Sawgrass parking lot, opened the trunk and placed her in it without waking her up?

It doesn't seem like RM minded Caylee there and the fact that he slept through KC removing Caylee from the bed and the house and returning to bed with him proves that he probably wasn't in much danger of being woken up.

It's much more plausible that CA did, in fact, call or text to insist that KC bring the baby home and then just lied about it. Having to call KC at 3 am to bring Caylee home doesn't exactly fit with the mother of the year image that CA was trying to portray for KC and we all know that CA is not opposed to indulging in a few lies, especially about things that can't be proven one way or the other (understatement here). Remember that CA said that KC never spent the night out with Caylee at a guy's house at all and we all know that that wasn't true.

Here's another thought on what might have caused KC to move Caylee....she was keeping KC from sleeping well.Kids that age [I've had seven ] don't always sleep well,especially in another home .They also turn and twist a lot while in the bed with others.They turn crossways and take up the entire bed.My husband has always slept through it,but I never could.It could be that Caylee was asleep,but disturbing KC's sleep,or Caylee kept waking up and whining .Maybe she was even crying for Cindy.
LE could certainly go back through the phone logs and see if there was such a call between Jan and April.CA has also been known to lie,also.

 

[songline]

Hi Songline, We meet here again!

Looking at the pictures of Caylee taken on 6-15 have always made me sad. There was something going on with that baby in the days leading up to 6-16. IMO. ME TOO the baby seemed very distressed and even had a mark on her eye, and I do think CA got some info that made her have that huge fight with KC

But if Cindy figured something out, or if Caylee said something to Cindy on 6-15. Why did Cindy allow KC to go to bed in the same room as Caylee that night? Why did Cindy allow KC near Caylee again? Seeing just what we've seen, knowing just what has been released, understanding what Cindy was dealing with in KC. Why did she let KC back in that house at all? The law is a strange thing, I believe that CA wanted to file for adoption, I also believe that since KC is her legal parent, CA would not have had any chance to just remove KC with out it being a legal way.

When we first started seeing lots of pictures, I was sooo able to see the changes in Caylee. Why didn't Cindy? If everything was hunky dory when KC left with Caylee on 6/16, I could see Cindy taking a step back. But if Cindy was learning bad things about KC from Caylee; how could she wait til 7-3/7-4 to start picking up the pace of looking for her....I do not believe, and I never believed that the "A"s waited till then, I will always believe that they were looking for KC and then got wind of some thing and helped KC cover up long before the 911 call

Caylee did have some real babysitters, KC's friend Kristine has baby sat Caylee before, Holly has babysat, one other person, Lauren or Molina, maybe? Oh and Jesse's family. It just sounds like KC had moved beyond the circle of friends she has had for years because they would have known KC without Caylee for days on end, just doesn't add up.
Well nobody came up with any baby sitters just the Anthony's and Jessy's family; I think it is strange.

I don't think anyone else was involved with Caylee's death. I don't think KC would be rotting in jail if anyone else could be called on and if there were others, OSCO would have found them long ago. That actually is my bottom line with the evidence. Everything ties back to the A's house. KC pings there most of the day. Cindy worked, George worked, Lee wasn't around. If there was anyone else involved there would be strings floating around pointing to them. You are more then likely correct, but I am not 100% sure that she did not involve someone yet, because I do not trust how the foundation happend.

Being busted for prostitution is a nothing anymore. Especially compared to murder. They would have dropped those charges in a heartbeat if KC would flip Caylee's murderer in exchange.
Right, but it is something if you are hiding that from your parents.
The house we found, the one that a Gonzales was living in off Suburban, has neighbors very close on either side. If KC had been leaving Caylee there, one of the neighbors would have seen something. IIRC one even came out and asked the WS who nosed around there, what she was doing. And with no power, if KC left Caylee there, there would have been some powerful screaming if she woke up alone. Plus the inside of that house was just trashed. I don't think KC would go in there willingly....I do not think Gonzales had anything to do with it.

When my son was 2 the cops showed up one night from a baby screaming call. We were trying to get him to sleep in his bed, he didn't want to. We only left him for a couple minutes at a time, then go back and comfort him. Someone called the cops. :crazy: I KNOW...

KC had plenty of friends she could have left Caylee with if she wanted to. For whatever reason, she just chose not to.
KC had all new friends, that most of her childhood friends did not even know. these new friends were party folks not babysitters

I'm still counting on the evidence we haven't seen, the evidence that caused the GJ to hand over a murder indictment in just a few minutes time.

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I hope that too much time will not go by...I really do, seems that KC will not be deposed till January and that means the trial will not start till spring more then likely. It is dragging to far, I am afraid they will say time served. I hope I am not right. someone has to pay for that baby's life. If it is not KC she better name someone, or ROT.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

So KC for no good reason, other than to get Caylee out of the bed she was sharing with RM (who was sound asleep and who they shared the bed with all night long on many occasions) picked up a sleeping Caylee and took her down to the Sawgrass parking lot, opened the trunk and placed her in it without waking her up?

It doesn't seem like RM minded Caylee there and the fact that he slept through KC removing Caylee from the bed and the house and returning to bed with him proves that he probably wasn't in much danger of being woken up.

It's much more plausible that CA did, in fact, call or text to insist that KC bring the baby home and then just lied about it. Having to call KC at 3 am to bring Caylee home doesn't exactly fit with the mother of the year image that CA was trying to portray for KC and we all know that CA is not opposed to indulging in a few lies, especially about things that can't be proven one way or the other (understatement here). Remember that CA said that KC never spent the night out with Caylee at a guy's house at all and we all know that that wasn't true.

Also, do you remember when Cindy denied having called her this particular time at RM's that she took it even further? She claimed she had never had to call Casey to come or bring Caylee home. But several of her friends have stated that Cindy was always calling Casey home.

Another thing that makes me skeptical that she routinely had Caylee sleep on the mattress in the car is that this is the only time and place that it ever looks like there may have been a possibility. Since she was "with" RM since March (I hope my facts are right on this; please correct me if it's wrong) it seems RM would have been able to recall other suspicious opportunities. . . and I'm sure he's been going over all of it in his mind (as are all of her friends). I just think we would have had a lot more to work with if it were the case. Certainly MOO and my own speculation.

 

[Themis]

Oh, I doubt it was "routinely." This may have been the only other time.