Poll: Did Darlie Routier murder her children?

Did Darlie do it?

  • Yes ~ she is on Death Row where she belongs

    Votes: 234 57.2%
  • No ~ there was an intruder

    Votes: 59 14.4%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 116 28.4%

  • Total voters
    409
Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #61
4baddogs said:
I've been reading the transcripts here for 2 days straight and my eyes are killing me.

Anyway, I go back and forth with this one. I read things and think she did it and then I read things and think she didn't do it. The bruises on her arms and the cut to her neck being so close to her carotid artery really have me questioning things. A couple of other items too, like the sock in the alley. But then there is the knife with the screen material on it and the legal documents that were in the room with the kids, etc., so I'm always on the fence here. And I hate that because I'm a very black or white person. I knew Scott killed Laci, OJ killed Nicole and Ron, and I believe the Ramsey's killed Jon Benet but this case keeps me going back and forth.

If Darin was involved, why hasn't Darlie said that? Or has she and I missed it?


I was on the fence too until I saw that Medical Detectives program and the forensics. That was a real eye opener. Then there's her story, it makes no sense. Her lack of injuries where there should be injuries had she fought with someone.
 
  • #62
I also question Darlie self-inflicting wounds on her neck like that -- I think it was 2 cm from her carotid? I can't believe she could do that and be sure she'd miss an artery in her neck, plus she seemed pretty vain, why create such a scar? Much easier to stab yourself in the gut, imo. Didn't mean to go on and on, just so many questions.



My own personal opinion is if you want to make it look as if you are a victim as well, you'll do anything. Darlie wasn't the first killer to self-injure. Charles Stewart in Boston and Jeff MacDonald at Ft. Bragg come to mind. I also believe she did it cover up the boys blood on her nightshirt.

How do you snip out a piece of a post to quote, please anyone Dani, DP. Thanks.
 
  • #63
cami said:
How do you snip out a piece of a post to quote, please anyone Dani, DP. Thanks.

Cami, just hit the quote button below and go up to the top of the box and remove whatever you don't want from the original quote that you're responding to. Make sure you don't delete any of the [ or ] though and you should be ok!
 
  • #64
Well apparently another author, Christopher Brown, asked that she review the evidence with an open mind and after doing so, she gradually concluded that there had been a cover-up and manipulation of the evidence to convict Darlie unjustly.


Yes and apparently CWB manipulated her as well with those photos of his. She was at the trial, she must have seen and heard the evidence. She says in her book she saw the bruises and then gives a credible explanation for them. How can she then turn around and say she didn't see them until he pointed them out to her.

My own opinion is just that how could anyone ignore that blood on the back of her nightshirt. How did she get the boys blood there.
 
  • #65
Jeana (DP) said:
Cami, just hit the quote button below and go up to the top of the box and remove whatever you don't want from the original quote that you're responding to. Make sure you don't delete any of the [ or ] though and you should be ok!


Okay thanks I will try it next time. That's why it didn't work, I did remove the quote brackets.
 
  • #66
cami said:
Yes and apparently CWB manipulated her as well with those photos of his. She was at the trial, she must have seen and heard the evidence. She says in her book she saw the bruises and then gives a credible explanation for them. How can she then turn around and say she didn't see them until he pointed them out to her.

My own opinion is just that how could anyone ignore that blood on the back of her nightshirt. How did she get the boys blood there.


Well, she called Chris Brown an "author," so there you go! LOL Just kidding!!! The photos do her in. No question about it. Couple that with the lies they told on the stand and its pretty clear.
 
  • #67
eve said:
I still just do not get the motive. I know there isn't always one. I just don't get the violent nature of the crime and the wounds on Darlie. I really question the husband's role. The case doesn't gel for me. Did you read the article by that author? What did you think about her turnaround in opinion?

I don't think any of us get the motive. It is beyond my comprehension that a mother could kill her own children, but we know it has happened and it does happen. There is no motive really when it's domestic homicide. I believe we would need to know the family dynamics and some kind of psychological history on Darlie and Darin and not rely on what their families are telling us. They are hardly unbiased.

I don't know about you but I would be itching to analyze Darlie. If she has ever been subjected to the psychological testing as in the MMPI, The Tat or Rorschach, etc, it's been kept a tight secret. All designed to identify any abnornal psychological conditions such as personality disorders, neurotic behaviours, etc. Her boys were well cared for in the physical sense, well fed, well clothed, but emotionally I believe she was not attached to them.

MOO
 
  • #68
cami said:
Well apparently another author, Christopher Brown, asked that she review the evidence with an open mind and after doing so, she gradually concluded that there had been a cover-up and manipulation of the evidence to convict Darlie unjustly.


Yes and apparently CWB manipulated her as well with those photos of his. She was at the trial, she must have seen and heard the evidence. She says in her book she saw the bruises and then gives a credible explanation for them. How can she then turn around and say she didn't see them until he pointed them out to her.

My own opinion is just that how could anyone ignore that blood on the back of her nightshirt. How did she get the boys blood there.


Well, I admit her change of heart sounds impressive until you read what she had to say in her book, supposedly before she met with CWB and saw the photos of the nasty bruises. Here’s an excerpt. Thought you might want a refresher, Cam.

"When trying a case, prosecutors must struggle to put all the pieces of the puzzle together and make everything fit neatly. Sometimes, despite their best efforts, questions still remain. In this case, the white tube sock left down the alley and Darlie’s unexplainable bruises to her right arm were troublesome. Neither the State nor the defense team seemed to have much of a grasp on either of these pieces of the puzzle. The sock wound up being ignored virtually by both sides. But the horrible bruises covering every inch of Darlie’s right arm were another matter. The State was convinced that Darlie inflicted the injury on herself after she was released from the hospital. The defense team was just as convinced the injury was inflicted by the intruder. After an extensive interview with a Routier family member, who consistently demonstrates integrity and has no reason to lie, I feel certain that Darlie’s arm was injured the night of the murders. Blunt trauma was responsible for solid and massive bruises covering the underside of Darlie’s right arm extending from the wrist all the way to the armpit. I believe the significant blunt trauma was the result of the attack, but it was not caused by any intruder. I believe it was from Darlie’s son, Devon, as he fought to save his life.

Through extensive interviews with close family, friends and neighbors of the Routiers, various experts, review of court testimony, and the DNA blood flow chart I have arrived at how I believe the tragic events unfolded on June 6, 1996." (Precious Angels, C 31, p 306, para 1 & 2)



She then goes on to detail the particulars of her theory.



So…….She not only saw the bruises in full living color, but she describes them in detail and remembers them so vividly she seems to see bruises even where there were none. (Not every inch of Darlie’s right arm was bruised. Nor was she bruised from her right wrist to her armpit. Other than the bruises on her wrists and the cut on her forearm, most of her bruises are from elbow to armpit.) Point is, Babs is either lying :liar: or in the beginning stages of Alzheimers if she can’t recall writing these words after putting so much detail into it.

Changed her mind indeed.

She changed her mind alright, but I don’t think we’ve heard yet the real reason why. But I'm game if she wants to post why. I'd love to hear a valid reason.

Just Goody's humble opinion here.
 
  • #69
[QUOTE
She changed her mind alright, but I don’t think we’ve heard yet the real reason why. But I'm game if she wants to post why. I'd love to hear a valid reason.[/QUOTE]




Now I thought I had read somewhere that CWB changed her mind by convincing her the bloody fingerprint was Chad P's.
 
  • #70
cami said:
Now I thought I had read somewhere that CWB changed her mind by convincing her the bloody fingerprint was Chad P's.
You mean the one that has a whorl pattern like Darlie's ring finger??? Huh, huh, is that the one, Cami?

Seriously, I have never heard anything about Chad P's fingerprint and BDavis, but surely she wasn't dumb enough to go for spin like that without so much as a smidgeon of proof to back it up? Although if she is going to defect, it be much smarter to defect on that than the bruises that she covered so well in her book. LOL!
 
  • #71
Goody said:
You mean the one that has a whorl pattern like Darlie's ring finger??? Huh, huh, is that the one, Cami?

Seriously, I have never heard anything about Chad P's fingerprint and BDavis, but surely she wasn't dumb enough to go for spin like that without so much as a smidgeon of proof to back it up? Although if she is going to defect, it be much smarter to defect on that than the bruises that she covered so well in her book. LOL!
I'm curious. WHEN did she change her mind? Was it after meeting/talking to Darlie face-to-face?
 
  • #72
Goody said:
You mean the one that has a whorl pattern like Darlie's ring finger??? Huh, huh, is that the one, Cami?


Seriously, I have never heard anything about Chad P's fingerprint and BDavis, but surely she wasn't dumb enough to go for spin like that without so much as a smidgeon of proof to back it up? Although if she is going to defect, it be much smarter to defect on that than the bruises that she covered so well in her book. LOL!

Well yeah, that was the only print in question at the time.

I think Dasgal posted it here on websleuths. Do a search and you might find it, but yes I agree it would have had to have been more than just the print. The black car, etc, etc. Anyway, I will see if I can find where I read it.
 
  • #73
IrishMist said:
I'm curious. WHEN did she change her mind? Was it after meeting/talking to Darlie face-to-face?
I don't know, but supposedly after her meeting with CWB, who lives with the Routiers (or did in the years after the trial). I think he also purchased the rights to Darlie Kee's and Darin's story rights, so it doesn't look like the story rights went far from home. I think Darin plans to capitalize on them after Darlie is freed (if ever) or after her death (when she can't talk anymore.)

But back to Barbara Davis, my guess is that she didn't go public with her change of heart until after visiting Darlie, but I have never read anywhere how much visits with Darlie impacted her views on the case.

I am a skeptic and don't believe anything she says. She worked in the Texas legal arena for twenty years or more and isn't likely to just flip flop for petty reasons. Nor is she likely to be manipulated. She attended every day of the trial and there is no new evidence since then. The bruises, the bloody fingerprint, the black car, and the blood cast off on Darlie's shirt was thoroughly discussed at trial. She offers nothing specific in her statement, but makes some pretty bold statements against unnamed Texas authorities. It just doesn't add up if you ask me.
 
  • #74
cami said:
Well yeah, that was the only print in question at the time.

I think Dasgal posted it here on websleuths. Do a search and you might find it, but yes I agree it would have had to have been more than just the print. The black car, etc, etc. Anyway, I will see if I can find where I read it.
I don't know, Fugi. I can sense some hostility toward the state in her statement and I am wondering if she wasn't already starting to experience some legal troubles, maybe thru her son, with authorities and just more willing to believe negative accusations than she was when she was covering the trial. I mean she worked with these people (or some of them, at least) that she is accusing of wrongdoing, conspiracy (or darned close to it), etc. So maybe the change of heart came about after a change of attitude toward old friends. Just a pondering effort here. Nothing concrete.
 
  • #75
I have no idea what to think of this case. After visiting the media section of the Justice for Darlie site, I find myself doubting her guilt. Of course, the real problem is, (as it often is), there is so much conflicting "evidence" that you don't really know what to believe.

While watching the videos of her just now, her body language, facial expressions, eye contact & movement, blinking patterns, vocal tones, etc., did not strike me as someone who is lying.

Her 911 call sounds very genuine to me, (especially the part where she is telling her little boy to hold on).

The bruises on her arms ... although not life-threatening are pretty intense. Did her husband do this? In my opinion, if she did get those bruises from a struggle with the attacker, the attacker would have to have had some marks on him as well. Also, when he speaks about his sons, his face lights up. Yet I must say that some other videos of him give me a different feeling but he seems to express such genuine love for those boys when he speaks of them.

If she was so shallow and self-centered that she plotted the murder of these boys so that she could be free, why wouldn't she have gone after the baby as well? I don't know guys ... oftentimes evidence can be skewed in either direction. Something doesn't seem to be adding up for me regarding her guilt and conviction.
 
  • #76
I find myself wondering if her husband somehow set this up, (his lack of injuries seems to indicate that he was not directly involved). Maybe he let someone into the house to await the perfect opportunity. He knew she was sleeping on the sofa so he'd be able to tell a "hit man", (so to speak), where she would be. He could have given the perpetrator the knives from the kitchen, knowing it wouldn't add up once the screen was cut with a knife that was originally inside the house, and would therefore implicate Darlie. It would also explain why he allegedly didn't hear anything. How much insurance was on Darlie and the boys?

There have also been rumors of infidelity, (but I don't know how true those are). If those rumors are true, perhaps it was someone with whom Darlie was having an affair ... that maybe she broke it off saying something about her family ... husband & kids at home ... just not right, doesn't want to break up the family, etc. So then the guy comes after the family that stood between them, injures her enough to make her feel some pain but hurts her most by taking away that family, sparing her so she can forever feel that pain. Far-fetched, I know. But like I said, something just doesn't seem right to me.

It seems impossible that this was a random act, someone that didn't know them because it doesn't seem that the perpetrator was there for any reason other than murder.

I definitely find it odd that in this case, (like so many others ... Riley Fox, for instance), that this crime just so happened to occur on the one night when Darlie and the two boys were sleeping in the living room. How many times does a random intruder happen into the homes of unsuspecting victims when they just happen to be right there for the taking? This seems to be a common thread, and I find it very troubling in regards to the possibility that this was simply a random intruder.

In the media section of the Justice for Darlie website, there is a link to a news bit entitled "Routier's Defense Name Suspect". In it, they claim that Darin is the prime suspect in their opinions. They mention the series of questions that he failed during the lie detector test:

1) Were you involved in a crime in your home in June of 1996?
2) Did you, yourself, stab Darlie?
3) Can you name the person who stabbed your son?

Other than question #2, it could imply that someone else did this but at his request.

The news report claims that he did not sleep in his bed that night and that he admitted sneaking back into the house once it was a crime scene. The report also mentions the idea that Darlie was going to leave him, and that he was "obsessed" with her. I was just reading a post yesterday, (probably on the Riley Fox forum), that contained a link to an article about murder at the hands of parents. It was stated that both mothers & fathers view children as the mother's property. It basically stated that women tend to kill their children when they are acting out against themselves ... when they feel like bad parents, unworthy, etc. Fathers, however, tend to murder their children as a way of getting back at the mother, (as in a case where the wife says she is going to leave ... he gets back at her by killing the one thing that is most important to her and that best represents who she is).

I also agree with an earlier post on this forum that the way these murders were committed was much more in line with the methods that men have been known to employ. Not to say it is impossible, but this is typically not a woman's type of crime.

I still won't say one way or the other but when you put all of these things together, it seems somewhat unlikely to me.
 
  • #77
JerseyGirl said:
I also agree with an earlier post on this forum that the way these murders were committed was much more in line with the methods that men have been known to employ. Not to say it is impossible, but this is typically not a woman's type of crime.
Jersey, you made alot of good points, I just wanted to point out that Darlie was the dominant personality in this relationship, (actually, in all of her relationships.) and dominance is typically considered to be a male trait. So I guess I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me to find that she killed them in a "manly" kind of way.

I also think her mental/emotional health was in a bad spot. (beyond bad, but I'm having trouble thinking coherently this morning! :) )
Were these attacks "manly" or RAGE? With her history, I think rage is the best possibility.
 
  • #78
I've read a ton about this case but haven't yet come across anything regarding their roles in the relationship so thank you for that information. It defintely helps to put things into a bit more of a context.

You mentioned that with her history, rage is the best possibility. I'm not sure what you mean ... does she have a history of violence or rage? I'm not being a smart a**, I really just don't know what her history is and I think it's probably of vital importance.
 
  • #79
JerseyGirl said:
I've read a ton about this case but haven't yet come across anything regarding their roles in the relationship so thank you for that information. It defintely helps to put things into a bit more of a context.

You mentioned that with her history, rage is the best possibility. I'm not sure what you mean ... does she have a history of violence or rage? I'm not being a smart a**, I really just don't know what her history is and I think it's probably of vital importance.
She has what is commonly referred to as a "histrionic personality".
My memory escapes me (an all too common occurence these days) as to where I read it, but at Darin's graduation party, she claimed she was raped when she left.
Cami, Goody, DaniT, Jeana-- help me out here!

In other words, she is known to lean toward the dramatic, or maybe a better way to put it is that she let her emotions rule, instead of her head.
 
  • #80
I know about histrionic personalities all too well. I grew up with one in my household, (guess this is why I went to college for my degree in psych - trying to figure out my own crazy family)! :)

She claimed a rape - I'm assuming that that rape never happened?

I'm starting to question if she might have been one of those personality types like those with Munchhausen (sp?) Syndrome by proxy - the ones that cause their children to be chronically ill for the attention.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
59
Guests online
1,629
Total visitors
1,688

Forum statistics

Threads
632,759
Messages
18,631,273
Members
243,279
Latest member
Tweety1807
Back
Top