Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[Linda7NJ]

This cracks me up! :floorlaugh:

I *KNOW* I'm more intelligent than she is! The whole 119 thing really eats at me!

Shaking again... Lol


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[Linda7NJ]

YES!!! Jodi Ann Arias is not autistic. She never was and never will be autistic. She is a murdering manipulative,narcissistic, borderline personality with severe sociopathic comorbid symptomatology. She is a festering boil on the butt of humanity.

Roflmao @ festering boil!!!

Whoa... Just had a flashback of Casey Anthony's back boils...shiver..,


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[molly333]

I honestly don't know if a person can realistically have an anxiety disorder and not have empathy. I really don't. And anxiety doesn't magically get better with different environments if it is an internal problem. The brain is malfunctioning regardless of the situation. Granted, after I left my abusive husband, my anxiety seemed to be curbed some But, after a while my brain started to focus on other things. Also, panic attacks usually come out of the blue, at least for me, when I'm not consciously worrying about anything.

I understand what you are saying. But, I think with Jodi the anxiety problem is different. It's not arising out of a body producing anxiety on it's own. It's arising out of the context of her inability to process data coming in from the outside. So every interaction with people and situations is frought with anxiety because she never knows exactly what it is she is seeing.

Maybe think of it as being in the jungles of New Guinea and meeting a tribe of people isolated from the modern world, and you want to interact with them, and be friends with them, but you have no clue what their facial expressions or culture or language means. So, it would be pretty dicey on a day to day basis because you never know if you are reading them wrong and doing or saying the wrong thing and they might throw you in the soup. Ok, that's not a great analogy, but maybe you can see what I'm trying to say.

She found a solution of sorts hiding behind a camera.

Jodi doesn't process information the way the rest of us do, even though she is, in my opinion, a genius of a kind-- "Idiot savant."

IMO

 

[molly333]

12 jurors got there by premeditation


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Really? So why couldn't four vote for death? Because she's mentally ill?

PS The whole point of felony murder is that it is murder one without the premeditation.

 

[Emmi]

Really? So why couldn't four vote for death? Because she's mentally ill?

PS The whole point of felony murder is that it is murder one without the premeditation.

Maybe the four couldn't vote for death just because they couldn't. Perhaps they thought she is mentally ill, or, this may not have mattered to them one way or another, and they were guided by conscience alone?

 

[Gecko100]

Maybe the four couldn't vote for death just because they couldn't. Perhaps they thought she is mentally ill, or, this may not have mattered to them one way or another, and they were guided by conscience alone?

Thank goodness for that, they have half a story and she is psychologically unwell.

 

[Linn]

IMO her narcissistic self can't bring herself to mimic or fake empathy because that would mean she would have to take responsibility and admit she made a mistake and was sorry. That is in direct conflict with her psychopathic self.

JA might have a high IQ, however she has zero EQ. Her emotional intelligence is lacking completely. No real emotions, only primal rage when she loses control of herself.

She can fake crying, maybe even produce a tear or two. But her eyes dry up very quickly so she has to hide them so that nobody sees her crocodile tears.

She tries to fake empathy, but doesn't understand herself that she isn't very convincing. Same goes for remorse.

Her mind works like a computer. She had it all planned out: the gas cans, dying her hair, taking her cell phone off so she couldn't be 'traced' being in the neighborhood, planning the murder beforehand.

After the murder she puts her cell phone on when she is in a 'safe' area and calls Travis, whom she knows is already dead. Then she goes to Utah - as she planned beforehand - and uses another man so she gets an alibi.

In her first interrigation she explains in detail how she got lost and slept in the car and how she was not near Travis Alexander the day he was murdered. She showed no fear, amusement at the most, and she thought she had it all covered.

When the detective told about the photos and how the camera was taking photos during the killing, did anybody see any fear in her?

Her mind was ticking at the most but she didn't show any signs of being surprised or afraid. Any other person would had gone to pieces at that point. She just took it to another level and kept on denying that she was there.

She showed extreme cruelty and planning when her mom was interrogated. AJ had acted completely normal during the five days when Travis hadn't been found yet. She told how Travis was going to visit her later on and other things like that.

When his body was found, AJ 'fell apart' according to her mom and dad. She 'cried' for days. And when her mom asked AJ if she had anything to do with it, she said no and even told her that she has the gas receipts to prove it.

Hence she didn't snap out all of a sudden, she had planned it very carefully.

Why? Probably because of her comment to Travis that she will contact her attorney, he must have had some proof against her and she wanted him dead so she wouldn't get into any trouble. That's my opinion.

But her mom also said other things in the interrigation, for example that she has always accused them of having a rotten childhood which was only her own fantasy. She is an abuser who plays the victim when confronted.

AJ listened carefully to the detectives in the interrigation and picked up certain things she could use if she would be cornered. Like being abused by Travis.

Only a ruthless and merciless person can go so far as to drag their victim in the mud. Battered women are nothing like AJ. They have a documented history and the abuse has been going on for years. They snap out in the heat of the moment.

But AJ had planned the murder beforehand. She deliberately went to see Travis.

She is a pathological liar and they can't do anything else but lie. It's impossible to get anything truthful from them, not even if it's a completely innocent thing. They have lying in their nature.

One other thing, the 'magical thinking'. That's where she probably took the wrong turn. She wanted money and fame, nothing wrong with that of course, but she made a huge mistake when applying her magical thinking to a certain person, Travis Alexander. Remember her 'vision' about them getting married in the temple?

The basic rule of positive/magical thinking is to never go against another person's own free will. It's against God's laws. By concentrating on Travis in particular she broke that law and things took another turn. Positive thinking turned into negative thinking. She did get what she wanted but not in the way she had planned it.

The marriage with Travis in front of God - nothing more needs to be said about that *cry*

Fame and money through Travis Alexander - she got that allright.

It's twisted how I still try to find reasons for her behavior, because she has left the mess for others to clear up. The utmost tragedy and sorrow she caused to his family, she just keeps on throwing more and more at them. She is the only thing that matters, she doesn't care about anybody else. Her life is more important than anyone else's life is.

Her pathetic attempts to show some charity work she intends to do, they are just that - pathetic. In the light of what Travis Alexander did during his whole life her 'charity' work is less than peanuts.

If she had any emotional intelligence, then she would had tried to speak highly of Travis Alexander's life and what he did and tried to come up with something that would even slightly measure up to what he did - remembering to honor and mention his selfless work for other people.

Imagine how different it would had been had she raised money for a Travis Alexander Fund? That way she would tell the world that she is trying to pay for what she did to him.

Sorry, the thing about faking empathy turned into a long rambling :blushing:

Summa summarum: she doesn't deserve any attention. Those who deserve full attention and prayers are Travis Alexander's family and friends lease:

 

[Chester_from_THM]

I'm intrigued by the high functioning Asperger's diagnosis that some have mentioned on this thread because it could explain certain aspects of her personality that observers seem to have trouble categorizing. It explains the genius level verbal skills, the incredible "focus" once she got an idea in her head (murder), and more. I also believe that she has narcissisism and psychopathy.

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respectfully snipped and BBM

Don't take this the wrong way tralala, as I am just jumping off your post, nothing to do with you.

I just found this kind of hilarious in light of her recent interview, in which she said that she was incubated in jail.

:floorlaugh:

 

[Captain86]

I know exactly what you are saying! She doesn't seem to show the symptoms of anxiety. Now she is waiting to hear if she is going to death row and she's giving interviews and worrying over her makeup!

Yet, this is the one factor about her that drops out of all these tests with consistency. Her anxiety parameters are off the charts.

And, these are well established tests with built in validity scales to test for distortion, lying, and trying to look good or bad. The vaildity scales say the test is telling the truth about her.

So what do we do with that? Do we throw it out? The one thing we can test for and that comes up reliably in all tests?

Here's what I think. Anxiety would come out in bodily symptoms from the autonomic nervous systems--sweating, shaking, stumbling on words, inability to think quickly, stuttering or stumbling on words, etc But we don't see those things with Jodi. In the interviews she gave last night the reporters were outright insulting to her. One asked her, basically, why don't you do the right thing and die. Watch her response closely. You see her pause. She is clearly surprised by this. She wasn't expecting it. And, then she moves right on graciously acting as if he just asked her what her favorite color is.

We know the anxiety is there. It has to be. But we don't really see it. Certainly not in proportion to what we would expect to see under such conditions.

So, there's two options here. Either there's a disconnect going on between her thoughts and her feelings [which just about everyone who has watched her for any length of time has commented on] or the tests are wrong and she feels no anxiety.

The tests say she feels anxiety.

If there is a disconnect, what would cause that? Answer that, and you will be one step closer to understanding Jodi.

I think part of the reason this crime happened is because Travis failed to understand Jodi. He thought she was fine with their "arrangement" and thought she was understanding and acquiescing to it. He couldn't have been further from the truth, because as we have learned, with Jodi, what you see is not what you get.

IMO

We must also take into consideration that she was "coached", given information about disorders, took the tests multiple times, and was given information about the tests before she was given the tests we heard about in court. We have no idea what the testing by those who were not called to court showed. There was a reason more credible professionals were not used by the DT during their case.

By your estimation, she was tested by 6-7 different Mental Health professionals. That gave her 4-5 times with the tests, before she started getting coaching. I understand that the tests are built to catch you lying, but it is not impossible to manipulate the test when you are coached on how to answer for a particular disorder and have taken the test multiple times in a relatively short period of time. She has demonstrated on multiple occassions that she has exceptional memory recall when she isn't lying. So, how much of a stretch is it to believe that she could easily recall previously asked questions.

I would rather go with what has been consistently observed in a highly stressful situation, especially when I have knowledge that two of the professionals she was seen by gave information that could help her manipulate the tests that show anxiety. You can tout the tests all you want, but reallity over the last 5 months has shown the tests to be inaccurate at best.

Why can't both of your suggestions be true? She could have a disconnect and not have anxiety. I agree that no one really understands her, but none of the things that have been suggested to be wrong with her from PTSD to anxiety to the various PDs that have been suggested are justification for murder. They may play a part in why she did it, but none of her mental issues are acceptable excuses for murder. All of the things the DT trotted out were there to distract and elicit sympathy for her because they could not prove one single thing that she claimed.

 

[Captain86]

Yes, I understand what you are saying, and I did consider that.

The problem with that is for me 1) She doesn't present those personality disorder features on these tests, and 2) She presents other features which you would not expect to see in a psychopath.

I'm basing this on Dr. Geffner's testimony. I trust his analysis.

If you don't, then I guess we really have no basis for discussion.

But, please note--not one of the psychological professionals for either side who took the stand called her a psychopath. There's a reason for that.

IMO

Why would you base your beliefs on his testimony? He never had any interaction with her at all.

 

[Harmony 2]

This is not a general discussion thread.. Please stay on topic. The topic of the thread is :
Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

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If You could diagnose Jodi with a psychological Disorder, which Disorder would best describe her?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Really? So why couldn't four vote for death? Because she's mentally ill?

PS The whole point of felony murder is that it is murder one without the premeditation.

The jury foreman spoke, he believed she was mentally and verbally abused!

Seems Jodi has much to thank ALV for!!!


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[molly333]

wow the Jury foreman, a man, on good morning America said,

"'I'm very sure in my own mind that she was mentally and verbally abused. Now is that an excuse? Of course not. Does it factor into the decisions that we make? It has to."



IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Why would you base your beliefs on his testimony? He never had any interaction with her at all.

IMO confirmation bias could explain it.


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[Linda7NJ]

Originally Posted by popsicle

She gave an interview also.



Cold Blooded Woman Angela Simpson Interview After Getting Life In Prison! - YouTube

Ah! So refreshing !!!!

I love an honest psychopath! IMO She is no different than Jodi, the ONLY difference. This one isn't a liar!!!

IMO behind the mask and the lies this is how Jodi's mind works. Cold, goal driven and remorseless

Psychopath all the way!






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[Emmi]

wow the Jury foreman, a man, on good morning America said,

"'I'm very sure in my own mind that she was mentally and verbally abused. Now is that an excuse? Of course not. Does it factor into the decisions that we make? It has to."



IMO

I was relieved to hear him say this. Indisputably, I think, the jurors did not believe the reports of physical abuse at all, otherwise we might have seen a different outcome. But, that they didn't dismiss the evidence of mental and verbal abuse does make it seem that at least some of them thought the psychological dynamics of verbal abuse are important enough to factor into the sentencing decision.

In a thread long gone, I believe it was SMK who made the point that an armchair diagnosis of Jodi--or anyone else who has committed a violent crime, for that matter--does not somehow automatically exclude that she was also subject to abuse at certain points throughout her life. It's not an either/or thing. Even the most insufferable person can be hurt by others. Obviously, a mutually-exclusive approach is going to miss important information.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

wow the Jury foreman, a man, on good morning America said,

"'I'm very sure in my own mind that she was mentally and verbally abused. Now is that an excuse? Of course not. Does it factor into the decisions that we make? It has to."



IMO

Ugh omg in that case why don't all of us who experience abuse and are mentally Ill (pll like me hello!!) just start murdering bc it's not fair to be mean to "crazy".

Btw as a borderline myself, crazy knows crazy.

What this tells people with borderline with low emotional IQ/empathy (sociopathy) is that this behavior is excusable... Bc WE do not think like YOU

It is not.

That foreman is an idiot. I'm sorry. I bet they believe in area 51, too.

 

[Emmi]

Ugh omg in that case why don't all of us who experience abuse and are mentally Ill (pll like me hello!!) just start murdering bc it's not fair to be mean to "crazy".

Btw as a borderline myself, crazy knows crazy.

What this tells people with borderline with low emotional IQ/empathy (sociopathy) is that this behavior is excusable... Bc WE do not think like YOU

It is not.

That foreman is an idiot. I'm sorry. I bet they believe in area 51, too.

I disagree that the foreman is an idiot to put some stock in the evidence he heard during trial. And, he never said being verbally abused is an excuse to murder--he said the opposite. She was convicted, remember?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I was relieved to hear him say this. Indisputably, I think, the jurors did not believe the reports of physical abuse at all, otherwise we might have seen a different outcome. But, that they didn't dismiss the evidence of mental and verbal abuse does make it seem that at least some of them thought the psychological dynamics of verbal abuse are important enough to factor into the sentencing decision.

In a thread long gone, I believe it was SMK who made the point that an armchair diagnosis of Jodi--or anyone else who has committed a violent crime, for that matter--does not somehow automatically exclude that she was also subject to abuse at certain points throughout her life. It's not an either/or thing. Even the most insufferable person can be hurt by others. Obviously, a mutually-exclusive approach is going to miss important information.

This would be all well and good if she did experience feelings of "hurt" or emotional pain during the abuse, but if she's a sociopath she does not feel emotional pain. Then again, this is assuming she is a sociopath.

If she is able to feel empathy for her own self as a result of some narcissistic aspects, then she could have doled out a use to Travis without considering how it affected him...

Jodi cannot connect with people normally. So when she gets to connect, whether it be by fighting or getting along, both serve her need to have some sort of connection.

After all even if it's an abusive relationship, she doesn't care as it is a relationship in general... Something she is usually unable to maintain.

 

[slanda]

In general, we'd all be having a different discussion if the jury didn't find her guilty of M1. They did. They also believed that she was emotionally and mentally abused but still found her guilty. They seemed to believe the abuse was a mitigating factor (which it technically is) to not vote for death.