Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[Jane Jetson]

I agree.

Mirroring is a common symptom of Narcissism (and Psychopathy as well)

It's the narcissists way of pulling their intended target in, by making the partner believe they are so much alike and were made for each other. They make it l, at the beginning, "too good to be true". And it IS too good to be true.

But I still wonder if she is self aware as many narcissists core issue is their lack of self awareness/ realistic self image)

And is the constant, some might say obsessive journaling a way to become more self-aware, i. e., "If I just write enough, maybe I'll find myself in there somewhere"? :twocents:

 

[Linn]

My bold. That is an astounding statement!

Most children, even children living hellish homes, will at some point experience kindness from an adult somewhere along the way. A smile, a plate of cookies and a glass of milk, a hug, words of encouragement--these are all lovely things, and may impart a sense of hope in a child who is experiencing lovelessness, abuse, neglect, etc. But that is not rescue, that is not safety. That is not consistent, constant care-giving.

I am sincerely glad that you survived because of kindness from strangers. But it's a huge leap to make your experience into an standard for others. It's a standard that, due to its inflexibility, demands that every, single child should be able to cope with whatever garbage is thrown his way, and turn out healthy, so long as some stranger showed kindness.

I ended my comment with IMO - in my opinion - it was not a standard for others.

I had no hope, even tried to commit suicide at the age of 4, asked God in my prayers why I was born because nobody loved me - that gives an indication of how hopeless I was. But then a smile from a stranger in the grocery store changed my life and gave me hope that there is goodness and kindness in the world. It proved that goodness exists in the world.

This is from a small child's POV. I had to find the feeling of safety from within.

I just found it offending when JA blamed her crime on the abuse she allegedly endured as a kid. The survivor-shirts were a mockery to real victims.

IMO

 

[SMK]

My bold. That is an astounding statement!

Most children, even children living hellish homes, will at some point experience kindness from an adult somewhere along the way. A smile, a plate of cookies and a glass of milk, a hug, words of encouragement--these are all lovely things, and may impart a sense of hope in a child who is experiencing lovelessness, abuse, neglect, etc. But that is not rescue, that is not safety. That is not consistent, constant care-giving.

I am sincerely glad that you survived because of kindness from strangers. But it's a huge leap to make your experience into an standard for others. It's a standard that, due to its inflexibility, demands that every, single child should be able to cope with whatever garbage is thrown his way, and turn out healthy, so long as some stranger showed kindness.

I agree: That can never be the standard and should never be the norm.

Children need a constant and consistent supply of love and care from their parents, within a structured, safe, and secure environment: When this is lacking, it is an unmitigated disaster.

It is not for nothing that the playwright Tennessee Williams put the words, "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers" into the mouth of his character who was a lonely spinster and was being dragged off in a straight jacket to the mental hospital.

 

[TorisMom003]

And is the constant, some might say obsessive journaling a way to become more self-aware, i. e., "If I just write enough, maybe I'll find myself in there somewhere"? :twocents:

I believe that Jodi knows exactly who she is. Her need to constantly journal shows how important she feels her own words and thoughts are. She enjoys reading back over what she was feeling or what happened to her. Her journals allowed her to be the perpetual victim, after all there was no one else in her journal to correct her or prove her wrong.

MOO

 

[SMK]

I ended my comment with IMO - in my opinion - it was not a standard for others.

I had no hope, even tried to commit suicide at the age of 4, asked God in my prayers why I was born because nobody loved me - that gives an indication of how hopeless I was. But then a smile from a stranger in the grocery store changed my life and gave me hope that there is goodness and kindness in the world. It proved that goodness exists in the world.

This is from a small child's POV. I had to find the feeling of safety from within.

I just found it offending when JA blamed her crime on the abuse she allegedly endured as a kid. The survivor-shirts were a mockery to real victims.

IMO

It is very rare that a child is able to find any feeling of safety from within: They aren't supposed to have to. Within is a seething cauldron of fears, wishes, and instincts: Parents are supposed to provide the safety.

It is awful what happened to you, and you are a rare person indeed to have survived.

 

[Linn]

I agree.

Mirroring is a common symptom of Narcissism (and Psychopathy as well)

It's the narcissists way of pulling their intended target in, by making the partner believe they are so much alike and were made for each other. They make it l, at the beginning, "too good to be true". And it IS too good to be true.

But I still wonder if she is self aware as many narcissists core issue is their lack of self awareness/ realistic self image)

I doubt JA is aware of it. I have known many narcissists who are practically teachers about self awareness and it always amuses me when they say how they have looked inside many times to see if they have some flaws and continue with a sickening sweet voice that they have no flaws, they are perfect.

 

[human]

Seems like some don't understand that 2 data points are meaningless and that correlation does not imply causality.

We can blame the lack of scientific education.

I wonder why the fact that violent offenses are split 50/50 between people with mental problems & those with out, is ignored? (attaching supporting doc)

Anyway, love your posts!

I read the document you posted which has many statistics about mental health and crime.

Is there something I am missing?

 

[lil_buddy]

I read the document you posted which has many statistics about mental health and crime.

Is there something I am missing?

page 7

Violent offenses common among State prisoners who had a mental health problem

Among State prisoners who had a mental health problem, nearly half (49%) had a violent offense as their most serious offense, followed by property (20%) and drug offenses (19%) (table 8). Among all types of offenses, robbery was the most com- mon offense (14%), followed by drug trafficking (13%) and homicide (12%).

An estimated 46% of State prisoners without a mental health problem were held for a violent offense, including 13% for homicide and 11% for robbery.

Also see Table 8 which can be summarized as follows:
About 50% of the mentally ill prisoners were convicted of violent crime.
About 50% of the non-mentally ill prisoners were convicted of violent crime.

Also from page one:
The percentage of mentally ill people in
State, Federal, and Local prison prison jail are
56%, 45%, and 64%
respectively.
Not a lot of predictive power there...

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I believe that Jodi knows exactly who she is. Her need to constantly journal shows how important she feels her own words and thoughts are. She enjoys reading back over what she was feeling or what happened to her. Her journals allowed her to be the perpetual victim, after all there was no one else in her journal to correct her or prove her wrong.

MOO

I wonder what she wrote on those pages of the journal that later were ripped out?

 

[SMK]

I challenge you to show evidence for any mental illness that causes rape, murder, etc. Unvbelievably misinformed post. But that's why there is stigma. Misinformation and fear mongering. These crimes are committed by all kinds of people. There is no illness one develops which causes them to happen.

For example, a person with an addiction may steal to support it, but the addiction does not cause them to steal. Theft is not a symptom of addiction. Critical thinking is key here.

Theft would absolutely be subsequent to, and dependent on, the addiction: Symptom, yes, consequence, yes: I assure you, I am not the one with the problem in the area of critical thinking.

 

[human]

This is it, completely.

Simple yet straight to the point. As Juan said "It's not her fault". No matter what Jodi does it is never her fault. She is always pushed to react. She is always forced to do things that she wouldn't do normally. Or Jodi would like for all of us to believe that anyway.

There is a clear pattern of Jodi behaving in ways that normal people would not. Jodi believes that she is entitled to do what she wants, when she wants, how she wants. Nothing and no one stands in her way.

Imagine being parents to this individual. Imagine having three other children that you are trying to raise and protect. Imagine having ONE child that is so out of control that you are at your wits end as to how to change things. Imagine being the best parent that you can possibly be and still have that ONE child turn around and brutally kill someone else in cold blood, in premeditated cold blood. Imagine having the world look at you as if you were the cause of this ONE child's crimes. Imagine having some in the world bash you and question you as not only a parent but also as a human being.

I don't envy Jodi's parents at all. I also don't understand how they can continue to stand beside someone that has not only destroyed another human being so brutally, but that has also destroyed anyone that dare speak out against them by words and accusations.

Jodi has the ability to better herself and she chose not to. Jodi believes that there is nothing wrong with her, the problem is with everyone else.

MOO

Jodi's parents said that it was that Jodi was a brat (paraphrase). So Jodi learned that it is not her fault from her parents.

The PARENTS are the ADULTS. The parents need to parent. If a child is out of control , it is the parent that must analyze his/her behavior to see what may be happening.

As a teacher, if I had a child who was acting out, one of the things I would do is take data. What happened before, during and after the acting out.

Now wasn't it interesting how my behavior or incidences in the classroom affected a child.

Love, caring, respect, concern. All of those things affect a child for the better.

Just as we adults respond to love and caring. We do not respond well to shaming , cruelty, etc. Why should a child?

 

[SMK]

page 7

Violent offenses common among State prisoners who had a mental health problem

Among State prisoners who had a mental health problem, nearly half (49%) had a violent offense as their most serious offense, followed by property (20%) and drug offenses (19%) (table 8). Among all types of offenses, robbery was the most com- mon offense (14%), followed by drug trafficking (13%) and homicide (12%).

An estimated 46% of State prisoners without a mental health problem were held for a violent offense, including 13% for homicide and 11% for robbery.

Also see Table 8

And so? Because SOME people commit offenses without being mentally ill, does not and cannot preclude that some do so as a consequence of being mentally ill.

Because you faint due to a flu does not mean that my fainting spell was not a consequence of my diagnosed or undiagnosed leukemia.

Deductive logic, inference: These skills you should sharpen, without ignoring the others.

 

[TorisMom003]

I wonder what she wrote on those pages of the journal that later were ripped out?

Only God and Jodi knows. I'd like to know exactly when they were ripped out but of course we will never get a straight honest answer about that either.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Theft would absolutely be subsequent to, and dependent on, the addiction: Symptom, yes, consequence, yes: I assure you, I am not the one with the problem in the area of critical thinking.

I disagree, theft is a result of dishonesty .. plenty of people manage an addiction without resorting to dishonest means.

 

[Linda7NJ]

When I heard Jodi's parents explanations of life with her as a younger person , it was obvious that they had issues of child raising,

They saw their child's acting out as a threat against them. Very immature response and a response I saw often with parents who have children with issues.

The parents did not look at their own behavior. It was always the bratty child's fault

Often, in dysfunctional families, rather than looking at the family, a child is labelled as the one who has made all of the problems and that is why things are not going smoothly.

It is the job of the parents to be parents. To be the adults. But , we are not taught to take this job seriously. Anyone can be a parent.

I witnessed a mother turn all three of her darling children mentally ill because she got attention having problem children. A form of Munchausen's by proxy that sure is hard to prove.

We do not know what interactions Jodi had with her parents, but from the comments, I bet that she was not parented in a mature and loving manner. Some people really believe that their kids are out to get them.

Sometimes, kids ARE out to get them.


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[Linda7NJ]

And IMHO her constant changing of faith/philosophy ... Constant search for answers shows her lack of self awareness. She couldn't seem to feel comfortable enough to identify with any of the groups... Probably because deep down she has no core identity/personality.

She's a very sick and fragmented human being.

The groups were a means to an end.

First she used the "end of the world" crap on Bobby... Then "The Secret" I believed she was thinking, like so many lazy fools before her, might just work...

It didn't.

Then she found a bunch of naive men ripe for the pickin using her special sexual lures.

She wanted a better life, she was just too lazy to actually work for it. She figured Travis was her ticket to the good life.... She believed he should marry her. IMO



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[TorisMom003]

Jodi's parents said that it was that Jodi was a brat (paraphrase). So Jodi learned that it is not her fault from her parents.

The PARENTS are the ADULTS. The parents need to parent. If a child is out of control , it is the parent that must analyze his/her behavior to see what may be happening.

As a teacher, if I had a child who was acting out, one of the things I would do is take data. What happened before, during and after the acting out.

Now wasn't it interesting how my behavior or incidences in the classroom affected a child.

Love, caring, respect, concern. All of those things affect a child for the better.

Just as we adults respond to love and caring. We do not respond well to shaming , cruelty, etc. Why should a child?

No, saying that a child is behaving like a brat is not telling the child that it is not their fault.

As a parent (and I am one) you have to do the best that you can when it comes to raising your children. What works for one child more often than not will not work for every other child. There are in fact times when a parent is at the end of their own rope. Even though the parent is the adult does not mean that they have their own issues they must deal with. Every person is raised a certain way and believes that they should or should not raise their own children in a way like they were raised. As a parent if you have a child that is completely out of control and you have other children in the home to consider that can be harmed by the out of control child then there are times when you have to let the out of control child go. If the out of control child decides to move in with her boyfriend to get away from your rules then sometimes the parent must let them go.

No matter what Jodi would have the world believe she did not have an abusive childhood. There is proof of this in the fact that Jodi herself admitted to FAMILY vacations to nice locations. An abusive parent would simply find someone for the child to stay with instead of going on the vacation with the parents. Jodi could have been sent away to live in a home for troubled kids instead of her parents trying to raise her and teach her right from wrong.

Love, caring, respect and concern? Jodi received all of those things. Even as an adult Jodi is receiving those things. But let's look at how she is repaying her parents for those things shall we? Jodi has told the world that her parents abused her. Jodi kicked her mother more than once that we know of. Jodi has told the world that her father shoved her into the wall or furniture to the point of her blacking out. Jodi grew pot on the roof of her parents home at the age of 14, something that could have gotten her parents arrested and sent to jail. Jodi stole from her grandparents when they allowed her to live with them. Jodi has forced her parents to deal with financial hardship to support her for her killing of Travis. There are other things as well I am sure.

It always amazes me how there are some people that have never raised a child that believe they know how to do it better than those that have actually raised children themselves. Teaching a child is completely different than having to be responsible for the well being of a child that is with their parents for at least 18 years.

MOO

 

[SMK]

I disagree, theft is a result of dishonesty .. plenty of people manage an addiction without resorting to dishonest means.

I agree that theft is dishonest; the fact remains, there are people without means who believe they must steal to support their addiction.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I believe that Jodi knows exactly who she is. Her need to constantly journal shows how important she feels her own words and thoughts are. She enjoys reading back over what she was feeling or what happened to her. Her journals allowed her to be the perpetual victim, after all there was no one else in her journal to correct her or prove her wrong.

MOO

Personally, I believe she journaled for others to read. It was all BS.
Who lies in their journals and pretends not to know what happened to the man she murdered? A psychopath that thinks everyone else is stupid, that's who!
IMO


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[Mrs G Norris]

I agree that theft is dishonest; the fact remains, there are people without means who believe they must steal to support their addiction.

Look, we should probably not argue the point here, but agree to differ, there are 'honest' ways to get drugs, or at least generate an income .. the decisions made along the way designed to feed a habit show a difference in character, but that is my opinion only