Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[MeeBee]

It's just spewed propaganda for Jodi apologists and looney tunes. IMO


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And Travis, this man who used to wrestle, is so dead set and determined to kill her that he is fighting through multiple very serious and painful injuries to kill her and she comes away with a cut on her finger and some scratches? There's no way. Even if Jodi was somehow able to get the upper hand he would have inflicted some actual damage. If he's fighting for his life, the damage won't be as great. If he's fighting that hard then it's probably because he'd trying to get away not that he is coming after her.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Can someone please talk with me about this aspect of the Arias trial and what Samuels said about Transcendental Global Amnesia?

Essentially , this amnesia is a an extreme dissociative state that borderlines go through. I'm this state they literally are not really perceiving reality properly and are delusional.

My question is, considering the parameters of pardon for the Death Penalty, one has to be in the cluster A Disorder arena and have the inability to perceive reality, which leads to delusion and insanity. We typically think only cluster A personalities are schizotypal.

But isn't extreme dissociation a schizotypal type of mechanism? And if so, should people with extreme forms of cluster B disorders be looked at more closely in terms of their proclivity for mental/emotional dissociation from reality?

So I guess what I'm asking is:

Can cluster B disorders be considered for pardon from the death penalty?

That was blown out of the water with the testimony she had to specifically search for and delete only certain incriminating photos on a camera that was brand new and not her own.

Zero fog=no disassociation


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[Linda7NJ]

And Travis, this man who used to wrestle, is so dead set and determined to kill her that he is fighting through multiple very serious and painful injuries to kill her and she comes away with a cut on her finger and some scratches? There's no way. Even if Jodi was somehow able to get the upper hand he would have inflicted some actual damage. If he's fighting for his life, the damage won't be as great. If he's fighting that hard then it's probably because he'd trying to get away not that he is coming after her.

BINGO!

Even in a fight for his very life, he wasn't trying to hurt her.


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[human]

That's more than a little bizarre, don't ya think?


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Her father would do,his drinking out of town. At home , when he drank, it was a drink here and there.

Mother had her co dependency issues.

All made sense when the alcoholism was discovered.

Probably denial in the mother's case.

I know plenty of people in denial about their alcoholism and the family in denial as well.

It is craaaaaaaaazy because it is so easy to see, but they do not admit it

 

[Linda7NJ]

Her father would do,his drinking out of town. At home , when he drank, it was a drink here and there.

Mother had her co dependency issues.

All made sense when the alcoholism was discovered.

Probably denial in the mother's case.

I know plenty of people in denial about their alcoholism and the family in denial as well.

It is craaaaaaaaazy because it is so easy to see, but they do not admit it

Wow, very strange....and sad.


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[human]

Wow, very strange....and sad.


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It is interesting that you do not know any alkies.

Where I live, it is a huge problem.

People are alcoholics and even though the person gets drunk, hides their liquor bottles, gets DUI's, what else? the family denies that there are any issues.

Alcoholic families are extremely interesting. The dysfunction that comes from them is one of the most destructive of forces.

I probably have not met every druggie in the world, but I have never met a druggie who did not come from an alkie family.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Linda, I find you both savory AND sweet and most importantly, capable of rational, logical thought.

Why thank you lil buddy!
I adore you too


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[Linda7NJ]

It is interesting that you do not know any alkies.

Where I live, it is a huge problem.

People are alcoholics and even though the person gets drunk, hides their liquor bottles, gets DUI's, what else? the family denies that there are any issues.

Alcoholic families are extremely interesting. The dysfunction that comes from them is one of the most destructive of forces.

I probably have not met every druggie in the world, but I have never met a druggie who did not come from an alkie family.

Oh I never meant to imply I didn't know any. I just never knew an adult child of alcoholic parents that wasn't keenly aware of the problem even if they publicly denied it.


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[2Hip2BSquare]

Oh I never meant to imply I didn't know any. I just never knew an adult child of alcoholic parents that wasn't keenly aware of the problem even if they publicly denied it.


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I grew up with a dad that drank every day and I grew up thinking it was normal for people if they chose to have a cocktail at noon and drink all the way up to bedtime. He was high functioning with a high tolerance and he never seemed drunk. It didn't affect his motor skills as much as it did his moods.

Not until adulthood have I realized that he drank way too often. It just wasn't something I noticed growing up.

Just my personal experience with that. Everyone is different.

 

[christee]

I was very much in support of Aileen Wournos, she was brought up like a disposable tissue, and then died for it.
The wounds on TS's back give credence to JA's story of being attacked by a 'linebacker' who landed on top of her. The wounds could not go deep as she had little range so they are 'across' type slashes rather than penetrative, hence the 'tail', at some point she could have inflicted the chest would in either in a standing position or lying down. Any violence associated with sex is sexual violence, for what ever reason.

But JA is a liar...a proven liar. Anything she claims as true is undoubtedly false. Whether she was standing over him, under him, or floating around him doesn't matter. She was in complete control of her mental faculties, and planned TA's murder. She may be mentally twisted but it's pathetic of her to claim mental illness as an excuse for killing Travis 3 times.

JMO

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Then again I also grew up a a dad that would throw me packs of cigarettes by the time I was 14. My parents started smoking young and drinking young. Dad experienced abuse in his home that made him turn to the substances early. Mom lost her brother and father in tragic sudden deaths and was left to take care of her mom and used substances to deal along with my grandmother.

It's all such a cluster F of Nature and nurture jumping each other into oblivion! Lol

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

But JA is a liar...a proven liar. Anything she claims as true is undoubtedly false. Whether she was standing over him, under him, or floating around him doesn't matter. She was in complete control of her mental faculties, and planned TA's murder. She may be mentally twisted but it's pathetic of her to claim mental illness as an excuse for killing Travis 3 times.

JMO

I agree with you!!!


And!

Last time I checked Jodi wasn't raped repeatedly by her own siblings growing up. Unlike Aileen.

Aileen's story truly is tragic. She never stood a chance from the beginning (environmentally speaking). I feel it is actually really insensitive to ascribe a spoiled brat like Jodi to a severely abused and abandoned dissociated pitiful woman such as Aileen.

Id rather Aileen and Jodi switch places with their punishment IMO.

 

[MeeBee]

I agree with you!!!


And!

Last time I checked Jodi wasn't raped repeatedly by her own siblings growing up. Unlike Aileen.

Aileen's story truly is tragic. She never stood a chance from the beginning (environmentally speaking). I feel it is actually really insensitive to ascribe a spoiled brat like Jodi to a severely abused and abandoned dissociated pitiful woman such as Aileen.

Id rather Aileen and Jodi switch places with their punishment IMO.

I know, I'm sorry. I just brought her up because you have someone like Aileen, who was, not to be mean, but not very attractive when she was arrested and went on trial. So you have someone who was ugly but who had a legitimate tragic story that led her to that point but very, very little public support and no one to care that she was about to die. You have Jodi who doesn't really seem to have a story of actual woe or a reason for what she did and what led her to where she is, (though people want to assume it) and her stories are very light stories of "abuse" and she has a lot more support than most killers do or should. Why? Jodi is young and pretty. People find it easier to sympathize with her.

 

[OEJ]

Oh boy...lol

MOO

But there's a lot at work. I think there are people who might sympathize with the person, much like the people on here. They think the person is just a troubled soul with a tough past and they just need to be understood. So they take to supporting the person.

For people like Jodi, it's easier. They claim abuse and abused women come to her defense. This is not a knock against true battered women. But they project their issues onto Jodi and find a kindred spirit. It's misplaced sympathy.

Ramirez's wife sort of, I think, said the same thing. He's just a troubled man who is misunderstood. She maintained his innocence...

There's some who become attracted to the "bad boy" or bad girl. The idea that they can be the one to tame an evil person like Bundy or Ramirez or they just have this weird attractiveness to people who are evil and crazy. I am not saying this right. I don't get it though.

But their looks certainly play a part. It's easier to "sympathize" with someone you are innately attracted to. There's a certain excuse making there as well. They try and justify their actions so it's ok to be attracted to them. I believe looks affects a murderers support level. Jodi is very pretty so it's easier to want to understand her and try and project something on her. She must have been abused and provoked to do what she did. Just look at her. She can't be a killer.

I don't remember Aileen Wournos having NEAR as much support as Jodi or even Ramirez or Bundy did and she had a very hard life full of terrible experiences. Her execution went off without a hitch. No one cared. She wasn't pretty to care.

Hybristophilia:

"Hybristophiliacs are people who are sexually aroused and attracted to people who have committed cruel, gruesome crimes such as murder and rape. It occurs more often in women than in men."

http://lovearthistory.hubpages.com/hub/psyhparaphilia

 

[OEJ]

Maybe this is what provoked the killing, made it finally happen: She threatened to expose him before Mimi and other Mormons and reveal him as a "hypocrite" in terms of the motivational speaking: This would terrify him and might even provoke anger or violence (trying to grab the tape away, etc.)---Blackmail angers and terrifies most people. Especially because it is horrifying to realize personal things revealed to someone you trusted is now being turned into a weapon of control.

I know a lot of people don't agree with me on this, but Travis was just sitting calmly in the shower striking a pose before she stabbed him. I don't think she whipped out the tape and there was a confrontation.

I do think it is possible she tried to win his commitment by coercion with that recording and wormed her way back in to his bed by pretending to be sorry.

 

[lil_buddy]

I know a lot of people don't agree with me on this, but Travis was just sitting calmly in the shower striking a pose before she stabbed him. I don't think she whipped out the tape and there was a confrontation.

I do think it is possible she tried to win his commitment by coercion with that recording and wormed her way back in to his bed by pretending to be sorry.

Most people agree with you. They're just the kind who can see how fruitless it is to belabor the point with the irrational.

 

[OEJ]

Can someone please talk with me about this aspect of the Arias trial and what Samuels said about Transcendental Global Amnesia?

Essentially , this amnesia is a an extreme dissociative state that borderlines go through. I'm this state they literally are not really perceiving reality properly and are delusional.

My question is, considering the parameters of pardon for the Death Penalty, one has to be in the cluster A Disorder arena and have the inability to perceive reality, which leads to delusion and insanity. We typically think only cluster A personalities are schizotypal.

But isn't extreme dissociation a schizotypal type of mechanism? And if so, should people with extreme forms of cluster B disorders be looked at more closely in terms of their proclivity for mental/emotional dissociation from reality?

So I guess what I'm asking is:

Can cluster B disorders be considered for pardon from the death penalty?

I'm thinking these dissociative states are more like fugue states where a person wanders aimlessly and unaware and can't plan or premeditate.

 

[SMK]

Most people agree with you. They're just the kind who can see how fruitless it is to belabor the point with the irrational.

I think it would have been very strange for Travis to want sex or to pose for pictures passively, after his May 26 email in which he assured Jodi that he viewed her as a sociopath, a scammer, "the worst thing that ever happened to me", etc. I do not believe the pics were from that day, nor that they had sex or that he posed in the shower.

 

[lil_buddy]

Transient global amnesia is just about stuff not getting stored into memory - it does not cause hallucinations or people to do things they would not otherwise do.

Transient global amnesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A person having an attack of TGA has almost no capacity to establish new memories, but generally appears otherwise mentally alert and lucid, possessing full knowledge of self-identity and identity of close family, and maintaining intact perceptual skills and a wide repertoire of complex learned behavior. The individual simply cannot recall anything that happened outside the last few minutes, while memory for more temporally distant events may or may not be largely intact.[1][2] The degree of amnesia is profound, and, in the interval during which the individual is aware of his or her condition, is often accompanied by anxiety.[3] The diagnostic criteria for TGA, as defined for purposes of clinical research, include:[2]"

 

[lil_buddy]

I think it is very 'strange' for someone to premeditate murder.
Must, therefore, never happen.