Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[human]

And here is an article that talks about the law and brains and paychopaths and what to do

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128116806

 

[Karmady]

Well, they don't call me "Busty" for nothing! j/k :floorlaugh:

On a serious note, there's a lot of disappointing shallowness that goes on between both genders within our society.
I'd like to believe otherwise but I have seen and have been told too much to believe otherwise. Okay maybe I'm a tad jaded (but I grew up on the Jersey Shore, ahl--right)!

So the shallowness of our society causes me a certain amount of angst. It really comes down to a power struggle for women who want to be taken seriously, for their merits, for their accolades, for their achievements of which I have strived to rack up.

But then look at men from a "nature" componenet, men are very plain and simply put; "Visual" creatures. Close male friends size up a woman within seconds based on their attractiveness and that determines their worth--based on if they want to get down (due to a lack of a better way of saying it).

Do women then rebel by working the game?

Ahhh......therein lies the rub.

Which came first; the chicken or the egg?

Anywhoo, I would've liked to believe in the Cinderella fairytales of my childhood than to live in the reality of our society which hovers around how much money and power a man has; and how much sexiness and youth a woman evokes.

Thanks for letting me rant about this aspect.

Now back to the previously sponsored program!

:seeya:

:scared:

Oh, I could carry on about this subject for months! I was totally oblivious to this for most of my adult life. Which has led to bitter disappointment that my mother couldn't teach me to 'work it' when I had it. She did try, but I was just not "susceptible." j/k...sorta

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Ok. 2hip2bsquare.

Here is the Fallon man with his own brain scan. He is the relative of Lizzie and other psychos.

He says genes do not control all.

Great article. Easy to read

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976

Right, it is not all "nature" or all "nurture" but very important that we realize that both aspects come into play.
That's why I don't like when people blame (for instance) the mother of a mass-murderer. It is not entirely fair and correct.
Neuroscience holds a lot of answers if we continue to research and investigate; provided the funding continues, of course.

moo

 

[human]

I do not believe that we cannot make a difference for abused people.

I know that people enable alkies or druggies, so family member and friends are taught about enabling.

I really believe other people make a difference in people's lives. It.can be a good difference,

With a friend, it is more difficult because a person wants to maintain the relationship.

As a teacher, I was not in that position. It is a totally different situation than being a personal friend. I think people can tell that I cared, though, because I would often.get requests to be their next child's teacher. They did not hold my advice against me, which surprised me as well.

 

[human]

I do not believe that we cannot make a difference for abused people.

I know that people enable alkies or druggies, so family member and friends are taught about enabling.

I really believe other people make a difference in people's lives. It.can be a good difference,

With a friend, it is more difficult because a person wants to maintain the relationship.

As a teacher, I was not in that position. It is a totally different situation than being a personal friend. I think people can tell that I cared, though, because I would often.get requests to be their next child's teacher. They did not hold my advice against me, which surprised me as well.

 

[cosmos]

The defense experts came nowhere near saving Jodi from conviction in the guilt and aggravation phases, and I even doubt that the experts believed that prevention of a conviction was possible or even desirable.

So for that part of the trial, it doesn't matter if she had been genetically born with a "rotten brain" or a normal brain or what in her life might have changed her brain at the cellular or atomic levels for the better or worse, nor does it matter if she was personally culpable for any of those changes. Hence, the psychologists did not prevent the triers of truth from finding truth in the guilt and aggravation phases (unless in some way they have contributed to getting the trial overturned on appeal).

(imo, of course! )

Where the psychologists come into play is in the death phase and their testimonies -- as remembered and possibly even misunderstood by the jurors -- are not only admittedly not objective at that stage of the trial, but furthermore it would even be unconstitutional to use a scientifically objective test even in the science fiction scenario of such a test existing. Because the constitution and constitutional laws require at the least the possibility of leniency and leniency is, by definition, permissive, and being permissive is not objectively quantifiable. This is why the juror instructions are intentionally vague.

Experts on both sides did provide material that jurors could use to determine non-statutory mitigation, even if that gave a juror latitude to go so far as to invent the concept, with insufficient supporting evidence, that maybe Jodi was born with a rotten brain, using the hypothetical argument that there is no better explanation for that one juror, and that merits leniency. Because the law allows that. And if the law did not allow that the death penalty would be unconstitutional in the first place and we would not be talking about the use of expert testimony in the death phase.

imo.

 

[human]

Right, it is not all "nature" or all "nurture" but very important that we realize that both aspects come into play.
That's why I don't like when people blame (for instance) the mother of a mass-murderer. It is not entirely fair and correct.
Neuroscience holds a lot of answers if we continue to research and investigate; provided the funding continues, of course.

moo

Hm. That is not what I get out of the article.

He says three things have to be in play, and abuse is one of them.

 

[OEJ]

I have worked, while in college, a jillion years ago at expensive resorts.

I am retired now and travel to very very expensive places, but I know how to rent a house, for instance, rather than stay at the expensive resort.

Consequently, I have seen older guys in action. They are not asking for a high school diploma. I have seen so many young women on their dream honeymoon with their older new hubby.

I have also seen older rich women with their new love, but not that many.

Jodi went to LaJolla to get her boob job. That is the most expensive place to live in the US. 10 million dollar homes are nothing out of the ordinary there.

She worked in Monterey which is filled with the rich. She saw real money . TA did not have real money . Unless Jodi was blind, she saw real money.

I asked a really really handsome man why that guy with Anna Nicole Smith would have a relationship with someone after cash.

He said that a sexy woman is like a car. It shows the world what your money can buy.

With her skills ,she could have had a real rich guy.

So she was getting something more out of it than cash.

You are so right. If it was the money, she could have gotten a better "deal" right where she had been. Mesa and Tempe are considered the poorer places to live outside of the Scottsdale area I lived in. Big time snobbery can be found in Scottsdale.

I think it can best be understood within the framework of her BPD. For awhile, Travis made her feel fulfilled. When he was backing off, she saw it as abandonment, When she felt fulfilled, she idealized Travis. When he "abandoned" her, she devalued him. He was scum of the earth, then. NPD's do the same thing.

 

[SMK]

Right, it is not all "nature" or all "nurture" but very important that we realize that both aspects come into play.
That's why I don't like when people blame (for instance) the mother of a mass-murderer. It is not entirely fair and correct.
Neuroscience holds a lot of answers if we continue to research and investigate; provided the funding continues, of course.

moo

It would seem though that this will stigmatize certain people who are found to be "wired wrongly" and viewed as having a propensity to become a sociopath. It cannot be an exact science due to the nurture factor, and due to the complexity of human beings.

 

[Karmady]

You are so right. If it was the money, she could have gotten a better "deal" right where she had been. Mesa and Tempe are considered the poorer places to live outside of the Scottsdale area I lived in. Big time snobbery can be found in Scottsdale.

I think it can best be understood within the framework of her BPD. For awhile, Travis made her feel fulfilled. When he was backing off, she saw it as abandonment, When she felt fulfilled, she idealized Travis. When he "abandoned" her, she devalued him. He was scum of the earth, then. NPD's do the same thing.

And Mesa is a stone's throw from Scottsdale, which has about 10,000 upscale resorts and restaurants where she could have made a ton of money and/or hooked up with a sugar daddy without much effort, imo. If money was the issue, anyplace other than Mesa and Yreka would have been easy pickens.Especially if she was a master manipulator.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Hm. That is not what I get out of the article.

He says three things have to be in play, and abuse is one of them.

That is exactly what I am saying. There's genetics involved, psycho-social dynamics, temperment, ..... a whole slew of things come into play.

I summed it up very simply by saying "nature" and "nurture" both. But you get my drift.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

It would seem though that this will stigmatize certain people who are found to be "wired wrongly" and viewed as having a propensity to become a sociopath. It cannot be an exact science due to the nurture factor, and due to the complexity of human beings.

Yes, that is exactly what I said: nature and nurture.

But when it comes to stigmatization, I feel life isn't "fair" for any of us and we all have something that someone could stigmatize us about.

moo

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

You are so right. If it was the money, she could have gotten a better "deal" right where she had been. Mesa and Tempe are considered the poorer places to live outside of the Scottsdale area I lived in. Big time snobbery can be found in Scottsdale.

I think it can best be understood within the framework of her BPD. For awhile, Travis made her feel fulfilled. When he was backing off, she saw it as abandonment, When she felt fulfilled, she idealized Travis. When he "abandoned" her, she devalued him. He was scum of the earth, then. NPD's do the same thing.

:rockon:

 

[human]

Yes, religions do evolve with the culture (for instance many Christians do not look down on divorce or gay relationships as both are now common, visible, and seen through enlightened eyes by most).

In your opinon, what did he mean by "you have scammed me" (I took it to mean "betrayed, blackmailed" as Travis was not always quick with the right word (from his blogging) - he seemed as frightened as angry. )

I felt he still did fear something being exposed, and then counter-threatened her.

I have so wondered about the scammed. What could it be?

 

[human]

You are so right. If it was the money, she could have gotten a better "deal" right where she had been. Mesa and Tempe are considered the poorer places to live outside of the Scottsdale area I lived in. Big time snobbery can be found in Scottsdale.

I think it can best be understood within the framework of her BPD. For awhile, Travis made her feel fulfilled. When he was backing off, she saw it as abandonment, When she felt fulfilled, she idealized Travis. When he "abandoned" her, she devalued him. He was scum of the earth, then. NPD's do the same thing.

Yes, that makes sense.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I have so wondered about the scammed. What could it be?

And it went further than that where he was giving JA 24hrs to come clean and correct things or he was going to tell everyone.

He was giving her an ultimatum which is a scary thing to do to a BPD.

I wonder what it was exactly but it could have been the precipitant to what occurred later (which of course is in no way an excuse for murder).

What was it?

 

[SMK]

Yes, that is exactly what I said: nature and nurture.

But when it comes to stigmatization, I feel life isn't "fair" for any of us and we all have something that someone could stigmatize us about.

moo

But enough to be put on a potential offenders list? The old saying used to go, "Thank God a man may be arrested only for what he has done - not for what he might do"----well, kiss that goodbye: They are already speaking about Proclivity Offender lists---people LIKELY to offend. No, I don't like it.....

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

But enough to be put on a potential offenders list? The old saying used to go, "Thank God a man may be arrested only for what he has done - not for what he might do"----well, kiss that goodbye: They are already speaking about Proclivity Offender lists---people LIKELY to offend. No, I don't like it.....

You just made that up---a "Proclivity Offender List", right?

I have never heard of anything like that......

 

[OEJ]

And it went further than that where he was giving JA 24hrs to come clean and correct things or he was going to tell everyone.

He was giving her an ultimatum which is a scary thing to do to a BPD.

I wonder what it was exactly but it could have been the precipitant to what occurred later (which of course is in no way an excuse for murder).

What was it?

Well, here's a theory. Jodi tells Travis, "Remember I told you I lost my phone? Well, I found out that stalker I have actually stole it, and you'll be upset, but that phone sex we had, well I recorded it and now the stalker has it and he's threatening to expose you to all your friends and associates! What are we going to do?"

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Good theory, OEJ.

I always had the thought that it had something to do with her hacking into his banking accounts or prostitution.

TA said he was going to tell everyone, including her parents.

How can we ever find out???