Possible US-led Airstrike Hits Doctors Without Borders Hospital

[Montjoy]

A Taliban insurgent is just as likely to fire an RPG at a plane and miss. MOO

So far as I'm aware, they're more likely to miss if targeting a plane, and they're less likely to do as much damage as ordinance dropped from a US or NATO plane.

 

[thepinkdragon]

So far as I'm aware, they're more likely to miss if targeting a plane, and they're less likely to do as much damage as ordinance dropped from a US or NATO plane.

I agree, but if you combine the two it would substantiate the claim of sustained bombing. I hold both U.S. Led NATO forces and Taliban insurgents responsible. Not one over the other. I hope this makes my point clear.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

US special operations forces – not their Afghan allies – called in the deadly airstrike on the Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz, the US commander has conceded.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...irstrike-afghanistan-us-account-changes-again

The story continues to shift .. clearly somebody messed up here, we'll probably never get the full story.

 

[drjones]

actually it seems like they are being surprisingly candid, this latest alteration is less of a "change in story" and more of a clarification. the US is equally responsible for its ordnance in either scenario.

 

[jjenny]

actually it seems like they are being surprisingly candid, this latest alteration is less of a "change in story" and more of a clarification. the US is equally responsible for its ordnance in either scenario.

I am very confused as to what they are claiming the story is. Now it's a "mistake" again. Did anybody ask them to bomb the hospital or not? Why did they bomb the hospital?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm confused too, did Afghans request support after being fired upon or not, if they did, why didn't this happen: "it still has to go through a rigorous US procedure to enable fires to go on the ground"

How the story shifted

3 October
“U.S. forces conducted an airstrike in Kunduz city at 2:15am (local), Oct. 3, against individuals threatening the force. The strike may have resulted in collateral damage to a nearby medical facility.”
Colonel Brian Tribus, spokesman for US Forces-Afghanistan

4 October
“U.S. forces conducted an airstrike in Kunduz city at 2:15am (local), Oct. 3, against insurgents who were directly firing upon U.S. service members advising and assisting Afghan Security Forces in the city of Kunduz. The strike was conducted in the vicinity of a Doctors Without Borders medical facility.”
Colonel Brian Tribus, spokesman for US Forces-Afghanistan

5 October
“We have now learned that on October 3rd, Afghan forces advised that they were taking fire from enemy positions and asked for air support from U.S. forces. An airstrike was then called to eliminate the Taliban threat and several civilians were accidentally struck. This is different from initial reports which indicated that U.S. forces were threatened and that the airstrike was called on their behalf.”
General John Campbell, commander, US Forces-Afghanistan and Nato's Operation Resolute Support

6 October
“Even though the Afghans request that support, it still has to go through a rigorous US procedure to enable fires to go on the ground. We had a special operations unit that was in close vicinity that was talking to the aircraft that delivered those fires.”
General John Campbell, commander, US Forces-Afghanistan and Nato's Operation Resolute Support

 

[katydid23]

I'm confused too, did Afghans request support after being fired upon or not, if they did, why didn't this happen: "it still has to go through a rigorous US procedure to enable fires to go on the ground"

How the story shifted

3 October
“U.S. forces conducted an airstrike in Kunduz city at 2:15am (local), Oct. 3, against individuals threatening the force. The strike may have resulted in collateral damage to a nearby medical facility.”
Colonel Brian Tribus, spokesman for US Forces-Afghanistan

4 October
“U.S. forces conducted an airstrike in Kunduz city at 2:15am (local), Oct. 3, against insurgents who were directly firing upon U.S. service members advising and assisting Afghan Security Forces in the city of Kunduz. The strike was conducted in the vicinity of a Doctors Without Borders medical facility.”
Colonel Brian Tribus, spokesman for US Forces-Afghanistan

5 October
“We have now learned that on October 3rd, Afghan forces advised that they were taking fire from enemy positions and asked for air support from U.S. forces. An airstrike was then called to eliminate the Taliban threat and several civilians were accidentally struck. This is different from initial reports which indicated that U.S. forces were threatened and that the airstrike was called on their behalf.”
General John Campbell, commander, US Forces-Afghanistan and Nato's Operation Resolute Support

6 October
“Even though the Afghans request that support, it still has to go through a rigorous US procedure to enable fires to go on the ground. We had a special operations unit that was in close vicinity that was talking to the aircraft that delivered those fires.”
General John Campbell, commander, US Forces-Afghanistan and Nato's Operation Resolute Support

It does not seem like that big of a shift. First they said that 'US forces' were being attacked, but it changed to 'Afghan forces' were being attacked. Afghan forces are our allies and we support them in the war. So is it really that significant that we answered their call for air support while they were under attack?

It is horribly tragic that these deaths occurred. Do ctors w/out Borders
Is a heroic and noble group. My heart aches for the babies and the victims.

I do hope that people understand that none of those pilots ever meant to harm innocents in that action. They thought they were saving their allies from a Taliban attack. To me, war crimes are things Done with malicious or vindictive intent. I think it was said that the Taliban had been using that building as a safe haven. So I think that wires may have been crossed. No one meant to bomb innocent people. But war is ugly and chaotic. Jmo

 

[drjones]

I am very confused as to what they are claiming the story is. Now it's a "mistake" again. Did anybody ask them to bomb the hospital or not? Why did they bomb the hospital?

the change was pointing out that the afghan forces requesting the strike did not communicate directly with the C-130 that provided it, the request was made to the US and then US Special Forces communicated to the C-130.

regarding his use of "mistake", im not sure it is entirely clear yet. but it could mean "the afghan forces provided us with coordinates that we then accurately bombed, but this was a mistake because it turned out to be a hospital", or it could mean "we mistakenly bombed the wrong coordinates", or "we bombed the right coordinates but mistakenly hit other things". i have not yet seen an account which conclusively answers this.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

It does not seem like that big of a shift. First they said that 'US forces' were being attacked, but it changed to 'Afghan forces' were being attacked. Afghan forces are our allies and we support them in the war. So is it really that significant that we answered their call for air support while they were under attack?

It is horribly tragic that these deaths occurred. Do ctors w/out Borders
Is a heroic and noble group. My heart aches for the babies and the victims.

I do hope that people understand that none of those pilots ever meant to harm innocents in that action. They thought they were saving their allies from a Taliban attack. To me, war crimes are things Done with malicious or vindictive intent. I think it was said that the Taliban had been using that building as a safe haven. So I think that wires may have been crossed. No one meant to bomb innocent people. But war is ugly and chaotic. Jmo

It's never the pilots fault, they are simply following direction and trying not to be killed themselves. It's a tragic event, let's hope the right lessons are learnt and mistakes admitted so it cannot happen again.

 

[cuffem]

Thank you for your service Pinkdragon!

 

[Betty P]

It's never the pilots fault, they are simply following direction and trying not to be killed themselves. It's a tragic event, let's hope the right lessons are learnt and mistakes admitted so it cannot happen again.

And let's hope they honor the request of MSF/DWB and conduct a full, independent investigation. This should never happen again. BTW, when are we getting out of Afghanistan?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

And let's hope they honor the request of MSF/DWB and conduct a full, independent investigation. This should never happen again. BTW, when are we getting out of Afghanistan?

We're asking the same question .. pretty sick of seeing our forces engage in situations that have nothing to do with us and only bring those issues onto our own shores down the line. We (the allies) could and should all be living peacefully.

 

[Montjoy]

I suspect it was a mixture of U.S. Led NATO coalition forces AND Taliban insurgents who are responsible.

rsbm

It does not appear that this is the case.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I truly think that the intelligence on the ground actually worked for isis and deliberately gave up false information to get that hospital bombed. The cia will now have to waterboard their informants and find out how they messed up so badly. Jmo. Someone was tricked in to bombing that hospital.

 

[Montjoy]

I truly think that the intelligence on the ground actually worked for isis and deliberately gave up false information to get that hospital bombed. The cia will now have to waterboard their informants and find out how they messed up so badly. Jmo. Someone was tricked in to bombing that hospital.

Maybe you're joking -- if not, I can assure you that this wouldn't have happened. The Taliban and ISIS are not allied.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Maybe you're joking -- if not, I can assure you that this wouldn't have happened. The Taliban and ISIS are not allied.

I just think the intelligence agency was intentionally given bad information which got this hospital bombed. Jmo

 

[katydid23]

Maybe you're joking -- if not, I can assure you that this wouldn't have happened. The Taliban and ISIS are not allied.

they are allied in that 'the enemy of my enemy Is my friend.'

 

[bluesneakers]

they are allied in that 'the enemy of my enemy Is my friend.'

Using that logic wouldn't we have to be friends with one of them?

 

[bluesneakers]

I truly think that the intelligence on the ground actually worked for isis and deliberately gave up false information to get that hospital bombed. The cia will now have to waterboard their informants and find out how they messed up so badly. Jmo. Someone was tricked in to bombing that hospital.

The U.S. military acknowledged it may have bombed the hospital, saying Saturday in a statement that it was targeting Taliban insurgents who were directly firing on U.S. troops.

This quote ^ leads me to think otherwise. I don't think the intelligence was deliberately faulty. I think someone really screwed up. It will be interesting to see who takes the fall.

JMO.

 

[bluesneakers]

Maybe you're joking -- if not, I can assure you that this wouldn't have happened. The Taliban and ISIS are not allied.

But I wonder if they were... would fighting against only one enemy be easier?

Sigh.

JMO.