Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

[Ironbutterfly8]

I was just reviewing Shannon's case. From an aerial view, her body was found closer to the highway across the marsh. I know there has been discussion about the possibility of her getting pulled into a vehicle. If this were the case, it would make more sense that she was dropped off from the highway side. If you look at the distance, its pretty far from where her purse etc. were found. Then again, perhaps she did make it that far hence her death. I don't know, something just doesn't ring right with her case.

 

[GrayShadow]

I was just reviewing Shannon's case. From an aerial view, her body was found closer to the highway across the marsh. I know there has been discussion about the possibility of her getting pulled into a vehicle. If this were the case, it would make more sense that she was dropped off from the highway side. If you look at the distance, its pretty far from where her purse etc. were found. Then again, perhaps she did make it that far hence her death. I don't know, something just doesn't ring right with her case.

There has also been discussion of the possibility SG's possessions and body were placed in the disparate locations in that marsh hours(?), days(?), weeks(?), months(?) after her actual May 1 disappearance.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

There has also been discussion of the possibility SG's possessions and body were placed in the disparate locations in that marsh hours(?), days(?), weeks(?), months(?) after her actual May 1 disappearance.

Yes exactly! I'll have to search the threads and see what's been discussed. Thank you for your input.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

Well, she did wind up dead. That doesn't necessarily mean the tapes prove she was going to be murdered in that house. I get it theres the "they're trying to kill me" statement and the conclusion we are all aware of. So is Ray saying this based on her statement and the inevitable outcome OR is he saying this because there was additional information on the tapes (ie: a struggle overheard, a man threatening her, etc.) ... this is what the public needs to know.

Here's what I can't wrap my head around, why would Brewer and potential associates kill a woman while her driver sits outside in his vehicle? This is assuming Pak is nothing more than a shady driver who does livery for escorts and not involved in some conspiracy. It doesn't make sense to me that provided Brewer is connected to LISK or LISK himself that he would select an escort with a witness who was waiting outside.... So let's say she was about to be murdered in the house.... What do they tell Pak? She slipped out the back door and took off?

Alternatively, someone could've went into a blind rage. I think what is much more likely is that Shannan either observed something (some kind of 'nasty ') or a statement was made that spooked her. Maybe this was merely intended to be a session where Brewer or unknown persons built rapport with her, hence not caring about Pak's presence but something went south. Someone did or said something impulsive that night, I refuse to believe that she went into psychosis, drug induced or not and decided she was going to be murdered without any other environmental factors or triggers, it's ludicrous.

Shannan was also a smart woman, with a good vocabulary and interested in poetry, music , the arts , you get it. Her lack of ability to elaborate based on accounts from Coletti and Pak make me feel that if it was a drug induced state, it wasn't a party drug that she took willingly. Her lack of coordination and confusion points to a dissociative. I'd bet the farm that she was given GHB, Ketamine, Rohypnol, something of that nature and it was unbeknownst to her at the time of ingestion.

If Hackett is a legitimate POI now that this is being considered a criminal investigation, it would make sense to subpoena the prescription records dating back to the 2000's. What controlled substances were being picked up with scripts with his name on it and by who?

I realize this is an old thread (I'm trying to get some history). I have come across other theories (including my own) that she was indeed unknowingly drugged. I have also had conversations with someone who claims that the venue at JB's was a birthday party for a LEO and that she was indeed unknowingly drugged. If this is the case, how did she end up as far across the marsh dead if she was drugged to the point of unsteady? She was found very close to the highway over a quarter of a mile away from her purse, phone, shoes and pants. I surmise that she was found that morning, was killed then driven and disposed of off the hwy. I have no fact based proof however the contact that told me about the party that night is very involved in this case as well as the media.

 

[WINDSOR]

What if, and it is a big what if.
MP caught SG, subdued her with force in his vehicle. He then left Oak Beach and realised she was mortally injured. MP pulled over immediately off the highway and threw the body into the marsh after removing her clothing. When he returns to Oak Beach a day or two later and meets with Dr. Hackett, he disposes of her clothes.
There is no record of SCPD searching MP's vehicle for blood evidence AFAIK.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

No drugs in her system.

Pak is a snake who wouldn't have been shy of involving himself in anything - at the cost of another - as long as there was $$$$ in it for him.

Was it proven that she had no drugs in her system?

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

Yea, can't rule anything out but I don't believe Pak is a pre-meditated Grim Reaper delivery service , bringing Shannan and potentially others to their death. Why even stick around and implicate yourself in it at all if you know she is going to die?

It doesn't make any sense and I'm not absolving him of some guilt or responsibility. It's very different than the GB4. I think Pak is apathetic because he is a convicted felon and resorting to this kind of work for a living, he probably doesn't want attention on him for other reasons. He strikes me as someone is definitely shady, selfish and got involved in something way over his head.

He can play along with the narrative being spewed if it keeps him from being out of the spotlight. He is a man of few words when it comes to this case. I see him as someone who is cognizant of the corruption and convoluted nature of this, but doesn't want to make waves.

Brewer must have known about the exchanges regarding the store. Pak was contacted by Shannan with the request, she wouldn't have reached out with this request on her own accord, her and Brewer left AFTER Pak declined to make the trip for them. So it appears, based on the chronology of this that Plan A was to send Pak on ride, for reasons unknown. @hawkshaw had made a good point, that it is entirely bizarre that a sex worker and John wouldn't have condoms or lubricant.

Just my theory but I think Brewer was aware of Pak and called an audible, sending him out of the way so something sinister could happen in the house, I can't think of any other logical explanation... a deck of cards? You're telling me he was paying hundreds of dollars per hour to play Blackjack with a sex worker?

Doubt it.

The cards and lube were probably code for drugs.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

What if, and it is a big what if.
MP caught SG, subdued her with force in his vehicle. He then left Oak Beach and realised she was mortally injured. MP pulled over immediately off the highway and threw the body into the marsh after removing her clothing. When he returns to Oak Beach a day or two later and meets with Dr. Hackett, he disposes of her clothes.
There is no record of SCPD searching MP's vehicle for blood evidence AFAIK.

Yes its hard to say what happened after everyone left (or didn't). Also, who knows who might of shown up later on? Right?

 

[marsyao]

What if, and it is a big what if.
MP caught SG, subdued her with force in his vehicle. He then left Oak Beach and realised she was mortally injured. MP pulled over immediately off the highway and threw the body into the marsh after removing her clothing. When he returns to Oak Beach a day or two later and meets with Dr. Hackett, he disposes of her clothes.
There is no record of SCPD searching MP's vehicle for blood evidence AFAIK.

It is unlikely, more than one residents saw Shannan and MP went separately ways, and why MP wanted to subdued Shannan by force, he was merely her diver, his reaction when he learnt 911 was called by the residents and the cops were on their way was fleeing, why would he spend time looking for Shannan ?

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

It is unlikely, more than one residents saw Shannan and MP went separately ways, and why MP wanted to subdued Shannan by force, he was merely her diver, his reaction when he learnt 911 was called by the residents and the cops were on their way was fleeing, why would he spend time looking for Shannan ?

why would he spend time looking for Shannan ?

Maybe to make sure she didn't talk?

 

[marsyao]

Maybe to make sure she didn't talk?

Talk about what ? MP had nothing to do with what happened in that house, otherwise even Shannan was arrested by cops, she was not in big trouble, most likely she would got was fine or probation, she got arrest before

 

[WINDSOR]

It is unlikely, more than one residents saw Shannan and MP went separately ways, and why MP wanted to subdued Shannan by force, he was merely her diver, his reaction when he learnt 911 was called by the residents and the cops were on their way was fleeing, why would he spend time looking for Shannan ?

If MP had no interest in SG,
a) Why did he follow her around Oak Beach to Gus Colleti's home?
b) Why did MP continue to follow SG, after Gus told MP that he had called the Police.
c) Why did MP leave Oak Beach before the Police arrived, and SG by then had disappeared somewhere.
d) MP was not merely SG's driver he was the one who arranged the 'date' between SG and JB.
e) MP, as a convicted felon, was fully aware of the criminality of his actions and how SG could implicate him.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

If MP had no interest in SG,
a) Why did he follow her around Oak Beach to Gus Colleti's home?
b) Why did MP continue to follow SG, after Gus told MP that he had called the Police.
c) Why did MP leave Oak Beach before the Police arrived, and SG by then had disappeared somewhere.
d) MP was not merely SG's driver he was the one who arranged the 'date' between SG and JB.
e) MP, as a convicted felon, was fully aware of the criminality of his actions and how SG could implicate him.

Exactly, not to mention if something did go sideways in that house (which I think it did), this would give him more reason to want to keep her quiet. When GC told MP that he called the cops, MP said something along the lines of "you shouldn't of done that" (I might not be completely accurate on that but you get my meaning).

 

[marsyao]

If MP had no interest in SG,
a) Why did he follow her around Oak Beach to Gus Colleti's home?
b) Why did MP continue to follow SG, after Gus told MP that he had called the Police.
c) Why did MP leave Oak Beach before the Police arrived, and SG by then had disappeared somewhere.
d) MP was not merely SG's driver he was the one who arranged the 'date' between SG and JB.
e) MP, as a convicted felon, was fully aware of the criminality of his actions and how SG could implicate him.

1) He had to follow Shannan, since he was her driver, he needed to bring her home so that he could get pay
2) Gus said MP left after he told him the cops were coming
3) Of course MP would leave before cops arrive, prostitution is illegal in NY, he could get into trouble if cops found out what they were doing there
4) we don't know that, Shannan arraigned her own dates via internet, MP was her driver only
5) MP spent like 6 months in Federal prison for provide fake documents and helped a VIP illegal emigrant into US, he never involve any kind violent crime, and as I said before Shannan was sex worker and as a sex worker, getting arrest was part of their life, Shannan got arrest before, and this kind of arrest almost always result with fine and probation, so even cops found Shannan and arrested her, she was noway in any kind of deep trouble

 

[marsyao]

When GC told MP that he called the cops, MP said something along the lines of "you shouldn't of done that" (I might not be completely accurate on that but you get my meaning).

Of course he would said that, that means both Shannan and himself could get arrest because of that

 

[karmaskiss01]

I feel like MP was just afraid of the cops because of his job. It’s that mentality for people who do illegal things for a living to run and hide whenever cops are called. Is that something a friend would do? No. Makes him shady? I guess. Does it make him a murderer? Eh.

He probably assumed it would all blow over and Shannan would reappear with another ride or something because I’m assuming she was a street smart gal. He claims he searched for her an hour and then just gave up and left.

I do think Brewer, Hackett & whoever else may have been in Brewer’s house are the fishy ones. “THEY” are trying to kill me. Sounds like multiple people in the house to me and it’s just all incredibly fishy that Brewer claims they didn’t do anything and suddenly he was adamant about getting her out. What if SHE wanted to get out & that’s why he called MP trying to sound like he wanted her out first? IDK
Just my perception of course.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

I feel like MP was just afraid of the cops because of his job. It’s that mentality for people who do illegal things for a living to run and hide whenever cops are called. Is that something a friend would do? No. Makes him shady? I guess. Does it make him a murderer? Eh.

He probably assumed it would all blow over and Shannan would reappear with another ride or something because I’m assuming she was a street smart gal. He claims he searched for her an hour and then just gave up and left.

I do think Brewer, Hackett & whoever else may have been in Brewer’s house are the fishy ones. “THEY” are trying to kill me. Sounds like multiple people in the house to me and it’s just all incredibly fishy that Brewer claims they didn’t do anything and suddenly he was adamant about getting her out. What if SHE wanted to get out & that’s why he called MP trying to sound like he wanted her out first? IDK
Just my perception of course.

I feel like MP was just afraid of the cops because of his job. It’s that mentality for people who do illegal things for a living to run and hide whenever cops are called. Is that something a friend would do? No. Makes him shady? I guess. Does it make him a murderer? Eh.

He probably assumed it would all blow over and Shannan would reappear with another ride or something because I’m assuming she was a street smart gal. He claims he searched for her an hour and then just gave up and left.

I do think Brewer, Hackett & whoever else may have been in Brewer’s house are the fishy ones. “THEY” are trying to kill me. Sounds like multiple people in the house to me and it’s just all incredibly fishy that Brewer claims they didn’t do anything and suddenly he was adamant about getting her out. What if SHE wanted to get out & that’s why he called MP trying to sound like he wanted her out first? IDK
Just my perception of course.

Oh I couldn't agree more, regarding the party goers inside. Thing is, if she was already vocalizing that "they are trying to kill me" when she was inside the house, then MP witnessed whatever was going on (if anything). I just don't think he's someone we should forget about just yet....IMHO of course.

 

[karmaskiss01]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

In New York a lot of people have taxi driver’s on call not to mention friends. She had her phone with her and was on call with 911 at that. Typically someone who is an escort is not the type to be shy and sheltered and that’s not shaming the victim that’s being realistic.

And again, if he’s being truthful, she kept running away from him also for whatever reason so this probably didn’t make it easier for him. Like I said, crappy move on MP’s part? Yes. But I find it easy to explain why he eventually left.

Lastly he absolutely could’ve been charged with something for being her driver something like “promoting prostitution”.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> my take on it is she was in a panic and in fear for her life, she was already on the horn to 911 when she reached GC's. Maybe in her mind when GC said he was calling 911, she thought he was calling someone else, I mean evidently at that moment in time she was trusting NO ONE. We are all going on the info that is/was available to us, we simply weren't "there". If I remember correctly she was said to have only uttered the words "help me, help me, help me!" It makes sense to me that she in fact, well? Needed help. Lucid or not. Again, its just my take on it, that's why we're on here

 

[Sallyla]

Lastly he absolutely could’ve been charged with something for being her driver something like “promoting prostitution”.

I don’t think so in NY. Only if they took her across state lines. MP said she’d got the train from NJ to meet him in Manhattan. He had taken precautions to make sure he couldn’t be prosecuted.

Remember he himself never called the police and told Colletti he shouldn’t have called them.

Plus in that situation, what were the police going to do? All they would’ve had was a guy saying he was with a friend at a party, she may have been using and seemed to have had a psychotic break. No offences there for MP. There would be nobody to contradict that and if found, Shannan wouldn’t have willingly admitted being a sex worker/on drugs. And if she was in a situation needing rescue, it’s likely that would mean no prosecutions of someone who tried to help.

Plus Ozcam’s razor. If her death was an accident and nobody at the party had any idea about the Gilgo bodies, everyone there would simply have assumed SG had run off intoxicated in a perilous area. Often there seems to be an assumption that in these circumstances there would be as much panic for MP and JB as if they knew there were other bodies/evidence of dead women/evidence SG was drugged. If they were innocent their state of panic just wouldn’t have happened.

IIRC MP made no calls to her after leaving to check on her nor tried to contact her loved ones until her boyfriend called him.

Also, if street smarts matter, how come so many sex workers are killed? They’realmost all street smart. Still many die.